Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #7

[notrust]

Or worked there every day...

This wasn't planned in advance. After SW killed them and he killed her, it's probably the only place he could think of. If this were planned in advance, why not just strangle them and set the whole house on fire. That would make more sense. Not PM, not planned.

Why would he burn down a house that can be sold to fund his new found freedom?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Or worked there every day...

This wasn't planned in advance. After SW killed them and he killed her, it's probably the only place he could think of. If this were planned in advance, why not just strangle them and set the whole house on fire. That would make more sense. Not PM, not planned.

He wanted a place to move his mistress into so why would he burn down the house!

 

[DAdvocate]

He wanted a place to move his mistress into so why would he burn down the house!

There's no way that was the plan.

1. I'll kill them.
2. I'll hide them.
3. Everyone will think they vanished.
4. Her friends will move on.
5. Her family will move on.
6. I'll move my new GF in.

No

 

[Ravenesque]

Indeed. And seeing where THOSE tanks are located, how remote? I think he planned on another fire/explosion hence the gas can. His timeline got all screwed up though when SW's flight was delayed and NU/NA turning up on the doorstep.

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. He left SW in a grave where DNA can be obtained, but to make his story plausible he would have to challenge DNA results on those poor babies. Just wondering. May they Rest In Peace.

 

[human]

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. May they Rest In Peace.

Why would he think anyone would find the girls in there?

 

[human]

I don’t think he was going for insurance money because there is no way that they would be found to declare them deceased.

 

[SweetPeas56]

I can actually answer this because it happened in another case. The question about the redaction which are the black shaded areas on a redacted document.

The answer is an incredibly stupid mistake by the people doing the retracting.

Was on another case and when you cut+pasted the redacted document over to another spot then all the redaction disappears and you see the text.

If they would have done it right then that would not happen.

I think the exact same thing happened here.

Lol I get it now. People viewing the doc cut and pasted it, and the redaction marks weren't "merged" with the doc; they were "above" the doc. Disregard my last post asking for clarification. I was being obtuse haha.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm wavering between premeditated and sheer desperate panic. I think I'm squarely on the fence.

He'd thought about how to get himself out of this situation. He had ideas, he was formulating. I don't think he had a solid plan but after her last trip to AZ, he realized that he had to do something like now.

I think that explosion the company had was swirling around in the back of his brain. I think his original plan may have been oh, she took the kids and she left me, boo hoo, I have no idea where she is, she had friends all over the country, we had an "emotional conversation" but I thought we'd come to an agreement. In the meantime, he's remembering that explosion. If there was another explosion, and his families remains were there, would there be anything left at all? He'd just go on being the poor guy who's family disappeared and no trace of them was ever found. Of course, nearly everyone would know he was lying, but could it be proven?

 

[smucklecrumble]

but still your question is very valid - why did he need it?
If it's petrol - he wasn't taking a long trip at that stage.

Why not take everything all at once and burn the lot if burning was safe at a remote site? Was he stashing it at the site for later? But you wouldn't burn in the dark - surely?

With the distance of the remote site from his home I would think he bought the fuel as a precaution in case the tank ran low. Its something that my Dad does on long journeys if he worries there wont be a petrol station near by.

He also likely didn't want to stop at a petrol station with dead bodies in his truck.

Sorry if this has already been said, im playing catch up.

 

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. He left SW in a grave where DNA can be obtained, but to make his story plausible he would have to challenge DNA results on those poor babies. Just wondering. May they Rest In Peace.

Welcome to Websleuths, Ravenesque!

BBM

I have followed this case since the beginning, but have not been able to keep up with the thread over the past several days. Do you have a link for this? I don't remember hearing or reading him say this anywhere. TIA

 

[Hatfield]

There's no way that was the plan.

1. I'll kill them.
2. I'll hide them.
3. Everyone will think they vanished.
4. Her friends will move on.
5. Her family will move on.
6. I'll move my new GF in.

No

Now you know why so many of us are calling him a narcissist. He actually believed he was smarter than everyone and could get away with this.

 

[Boodles]

Plus I believe the cadaver dogs detected the smell of death in the house.

And/or in his truck.

 

[Deleted member 134862]

There's no way that was the plan.

1. I'll kill them.
2. I'll hide them.
3. Everyone will think they vanished.
4. Her friends will move on.
5. Her family will move on.
6. I'll move my new GF in.

No

It worked for Chris Dawson. Just sayin'

 

[cottonweaver]

It is really sad that justice could be denied to a pregnant mother and her three sweet angels because of one obtuse person.

No comment on poster
but let's guess that there's been almost 500 pple posting across the 7 threads. Been a lot of people. Think only three posters take that view, across the 7 threads.

Whatever the total SWatts case poster numbers the % is small. Compare that to vs juror %

We should post a poll cause I think it's beginning to upset a lot of posters.... personally I'd bet my house that he is convicted of the death of the children.

 

[Hatfield]

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. He left SW in a grave where DNA can be obtained, but to make his story plausible he would have to challenge DNA results on those poor babies. Just wondering. May they Rest In Peace.

JMO
I think he thought it was a great place for all 3 of them and he couldnt lift the wife to the top hatch to get her inside.

I am familiar with those types of tanks and most all of them have a hatch on top with a small set of ladder type steps to get up to the top. He probably tried but could not lift her up to the top. Its incredibly hard to carry dead weight up a ladder because one arm always had to be on the ladder to support himself.

He figured any decomp smell would be covered because they were in the tank and he figured nobody would ever find them there. Its really not a bad hiding spot but sooner or later it would be inspected because most companies that use those tanks periodically inspect them for leaks and to make sure no animals get inside.

 

[cottonweaver]

With the distance of the remote site from his home I would think he bought the fuel as a precaution in case the tank ran low. Its something that my Dad does on long journeys if he worries there wont be a petrol station near by.

He also likely didn't want to stop at a petrol station with dead bodies in his truck.

Sorry if this has already been said, im playing catch up.

Thankyou smuckle - that helps.

 

[akazia1978]

Brand new here and catching up (on pg 31), but this.

@akazia1978

I'm 29. I've had NIPT with both my pregnancies (26 and 28). I saw a MFM (maternal-fetal medicine doc.. basically a high risk pregnancy doctor) solely due to high BP and a uterine anomaly. No other risk factors or history. My insurance covered it. If she had lupus, she most definitely was under the care of an MFM. If an MFM orders a NIPT, insurance is most likely going to cover it. Why? They assume a specialist ordering a test has a reason, and they've already authorized the care of said specialist. Mine does it standard across all patients due to accuracy and all the abnormalities the test covers.

Also, yes, the companies charge insurance that astronomical amount, but that is not what you're going to pay if you have to pay OOP. Almost all of the companies have a cap for OOP patients, and it is typically $200 or less. This is well known and readily available info for anyone who researches the test, so I'm sure she knew that if insurance rejected it they would only have to pay a max of $200. I almost guarantee that her insurance covered it, but if not we are talking $200 or less.. which is a big difference vs. $1.5k+. For most, $200 is going to be completely worth it for the accuracy and information you get about potential chromosomal abnormalities (finding out the sex is a bonus, it's not the point) from a couple vials of blood.

Thank you I was a high risk also, but maybe my obgyn didn't feel necessary. Good info to have

 

[Jo in Calif]

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. He left SW in a grave where DNA can be obtained, but to make his story plausible he would have to challenge DNA results on those poor babies. Just wondering. May they Rest In Peace.

I believe it was a reporter that was speculating as to why he dumped them in the tank.

 

[262gal]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

Couple of thoughts when reading this affidavit:

1. The report states that an officer contacted CW for code to enter the house through the garage but CW said he was 5 minutes away so officer had to wait for CW to arrive to let him in. If I was worried about my wife and children are injured inside my home, I would beg the officer to break the door or window down rather then have to wait 5 more minutes until I arrived. It could have been life or death if they were in need of help.

2. A pair of woman's shoes were located near the front door and a suitcase at the bottom of the stairs leading upstairs bedrooms. To me that indicates SW wasn't ambushed at that point on initial entry into her home.

3. CW says they discussed a marital separation at 5 am. So if this was true and he stated he texted SW from work several times that day and she didn't respond and he thought that was odd. Why would he think that would be odd that his wife whom you just told only hours before that you wanted a marital separation from doesn't answer your calls or texts. It doesn't fit. He is trying to cover himself.

4. Why did CW put the latch on in the house at the front door? Did he not want anyone but himself to enter home before he would return to stage it? Or did SW do that the night before when she returned home as a routine occurrence?
I think that is the likely scenario and CW forgot to unlatch it in his rush to move the bodies.
Did NU-A have a key for the front door? She must have to have opened it and saw the latch inside preventing her from entering the home. Obviously the key was given to her by SW.

5. NU-A stated that she discovered SW's car and car seats in the car in the closed garage. Some on WS were wondering about the car and car seat discovery so it is confirmed that both the car and car seat were observed by NU-A.

6. It would be interesting to know if SW and CW always had their home windows closed and "locked" because it was noted by LE that all the windows were locked. Did they use an air conditioner or did they typically like having fresh air via a open window? I assume it was hot there in Colorado. I wonder if CW had the windows closed so neighbors could not hear anything going on inside the home that night and locked so no one could enter.

7. Further to the fitted bed sheet that was recovered at the burial site.
It states it matches the sheet set ~ "several pillow cases and top sheet recovered from kitchen trash can".
So basically what was in the oil field was the fitted portion of that actual sheet set in the garbage can. For women who make beds, we all know that fitted sheets go around the actual mattress and has elastic corners to hold the sheet in place around the mattress. I am thinking that it would be plausible that CW removed from the fitted sheet and gathered the fitted sheet around the victim (SW) and then moved the body in it. I am thinking that the "bedding laying on the floor" could have been duvets, bedspread, accent pillows etc and they could have easily been uncontaminated by a crime if CW removed, kicked off the bed prior or during the murder. This lends to the belief that SW went to bed alive and she or SW likely removed the coverings from the bed as most of us do which left the fitted sheet, top sheet and pillows remaining on the bed.
We know this fitted sheet refers to the master bedroom set because of the reference in affidavit that there were several pillow cases and a top sheet found in the kitchen garbage can that matched the fitted sheet found in the oil field. We know that only queen and king sheets sets typically have 4 pillow cases which is considered "several".
8. CW states in affidavit that he woke around 5 am. Later in the affidavit it states CW informed SW at around 4 am that he wanted to go through with the separation. So right there is a contradiction in times. How can CW awake at 5 am and tell SW at 4 am he wants a separation. He then apparently leaves at 5:27 am to go to work. If he woke at 5 am and leaves at 5:27 then it was a short conversation for an important subject.

9. Timings:
CW states to one officer that SW arrived home at 2 am then he states to another officer SW arrived at 1:48 am.

Sorry for the long post.

Pretty sure I've read every single post in every thread on this case--found myself compelled enough to sign up on WS and post.

I think LE knew CW was responsible as soon as/possibly even before they got in the house. I suspect his "the garage code doesn't work" comment was a lie; even if it wasn't, yeah, wouldn't he tell them to just bust in the door? And given the state of the home, unless he cried, "Oh my God! Her purse is still here!", there's no way they weren't alarmed and suspected he'd killed them. IMO they let him stew in his juices without accusing him while they gathered more evidence.

Another post a couple threads back noted several reasons to think CW hadn't planned these murders. I'm not sure he killed kids first, but I don't think he had any "revenge" going on--wanting SW to suffer by seeing them dead, as some have speculated. As someone who's watched a lot of Forensic Files, I can't see anybody thinking they can get away with murder in 2018 without a heck of a lot more planning than CW employed. No way she'd just decide to take off with the kids and leave no digital footprint/not contact her family. He'd have taken her phone and destroyed it, for sure. Putting his kids in the tanks was to hide them--he'd have thought of a better hiding plan for SW too if he'd had time. And once he'd known she wasn't getting home till 2, he'd have reconsidered his plan, I'd think. Even if he'd already killed the kids before she left AZ, dude'd need a Plan B. You'd think. Of course he didn't realize NUA would be on the scene so fast, but I can't fathom he'd leave such blatant 'proof' of guilt in his house if he'd done any substantial plotting.

Thanks, WS, for letting me in.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Does anyone else think he chose the oil tanks to create reasonable doubt due to DNA challenges? He said it was for the smell, but I am thinking it may be because of what the gas and oil would do to a body. He left SW in a grave where DNA can be obtained, but to make his story plausible he would have to challenge DNA results on those poor babies. Just wondering. May they Rest In Peace.

Pete Hughes: What was key to us is we gotta be able to demonstrate to anybody and everybody, if he dumps that body -- in the oil tanks, where'd the body go?

And NCIS' forensic team had the answer.

Jim Grebas: Experts were able to explain the oil is so caustic, seawater, microorganisms, it'd simply -- just eat into the clothing, flesh.

Megan Rose: ...The corrosive effect would've essentially disintegrated Muns' body and it would have been flushed out to sea.

Pete Hughes: It was evidence that there was no evidence. …

NCIS agents vow to solve "unsolvable" cold case and restore a sailor's honor