CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

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  • #261
The comment of turning blue bothers me .
The baby monitor on FB is black and white unless they bought a new one .
I have no knowledge of the physical effects of being strangled , I assume you may turn blue bc lack of oxygen however it is never mentioned he rendered CPR . I would think immediately your response would be to throw her (physically he is stronger) and try to save them and it would be a struggle.
Does anyone know when the “ blue” part would happen? He claims it was a short time period from conversation to this alleged act.
 
  • #262
One night I got a call stating my then-husband had a car accident/DUI with my 12 year old daughter IN THE CAR!! (Btw, he never made it through my front door again.) I've never physically attacked anyone or been in a fight, but I remember my reaction was wanting to scratch his face. I know that sounds bizarre, but it was a mama-bear thing I guess. Like the physical urge to drink when thirsty or lie down when tired, I had the physical urge to scratch his face. I didn't. Later that night, I refused him entry to the house and never let him back in. But had I been on the scene when it happened, maybe I would have acted on my urge. I don't know. I'm just saying that a violent reaction to someone harming your child isn't far-fetched.

So I could find it plausible that a husband attacked/killed his wife for killing their children, but I am just not buying it from him because....

1. He didn't call for help. According to CW, it had just happened - most people would try to help the kids, call 911, hoping even to the point of denial that they could be revived.

2. Worse... He dumped the precious bodies of his sweet babies in nasty oil tanks. I can't get past that. I couldn't get past that if I were on a jury.

Just MOO not arguing (-:

ETA: I DO appreciate different viewpoints! It helps me look at things in new ways, and I might see something I hadn't before.

Your example is helpful. The desire to scratch was a natural rage response. I'm not convinced that strangling is a natural rage response in the same way that hitting, slapping, throwing things are.
 
  • #263
No. But the ridiculously implausible story of seeing one child sprawled out blue (on a black and white monitor), and the other child being strangled by a suddenly distraught wife, causing a man to coincidentally also react by murdering said wife, and to also coincidentally do it via strangling, (not gun, beating with an object, etc.), instead of throwing her off the child and a) Calling 911, b) Checking pulses, c) Immediately attempting to resuscitate one or both children, d) Running out of the house, screaming and wailing for help...that should allow one to make that leap.

Let's add in a couple things that should enable anyone with critical thinking skills to conclude this man's story is nonsensical garbage and he murdered his whole family:

1. After the laughable story of two parents separately and coincidentally reacting with homicide -and not only homicide but coincidentally, the the exact same method - and dad defying all parental instinct and not even trying to rescue the very precious children who he adored so much that he went out of his mind at the sight of someone harming them, after all that, he again fails to call 911 after killing his wife and again fails to scream in agony at what happened and beg, as ALL distraught parents who love their children do, for help that will never come.

In fact, no screaming in anguish is heard from that house at all that morning, despite the incredible proximity of the houses. Wow. That was one quiet event, seeing your precious kids being killed and reacting with unhinged fury. So silent.

He goes from out of his mind with fury and pain to utterly calm, apparently, in an instant.

2. Not only that, he takes those precious children who he loved so much that he killed at the sight of someone harming him, and he loads them up in his truck, calmly drives away from his house and dumps their precious little bodies in vats of dirty, black oil. No burial for them. Not one damn thing about the way their bodies were discarded to indicate they were loved.

3. He goes to work. He killed his "insane" wife because she destroyed the two people who mattered the most to him, right? And he just goes to work. Where he calmly watched the ring video that shows if anyone is coming to the house.

4. This man who simply snapped at the sight of his precious kids being harmed (remember, there is no way he could've known that they were dead or beyond resuscitation from a glimpse in a monitor), he calmly texts his dead wife and leaves voicemails he knows she will never hear, "Where are you, babe?"

5. The man who knows his entire life is floating in dirty vats of black oil, he then calmly calls his wife's friend when he sees her on the ring video at the house. "What's going on?"

6. The same man who after losing his mind from insane anguish, (anguish that was not vocalized at all) quietly loaded his dead loved ones bodies into his truck, dumped their bodies and then calmly went to work, now, NOW, he suddenly shows emotion and with a "racing heart", he runs several stop lights to get home. So scared of getting caught but able to quietly murder your wife, calmly load up your family's bodies, and drive away, dump them and go to work as if nothing happened? Hmm. Does that makes sense?

7. For the next several hours, the father who loved his babies so much that he went out of his mind at the sight of them being harmed and killed for them (instead of trying to do one thing to save them), he calmly goes through all the friend's lists with police, tries every number available and steadily tries to track down his dead wife and rotting children. "I have no inclination as to where they are."

8. Then, this same, passionately adoring father who lost his mind in grief, two days later he grins and giggles and stares clear eyed at several reporters, not one tiny hint of exhaustion, crying, grief, nope. He stands there looking well rested, casually discussing the where abouts of his precious babies who are rotting in oil, and proudly shows of his shirt. A damn shirt. While his kids corpses float in oil.

So a man so passionate he erupts in homicidal fury, and anguish, he can calmly stand on a porch and discuss his dead children two days later? Is that remotely believable folks?

So while we may not be able to make the leap from an affair (which is present in half the family annihilator cases), to murder, it would seem that any rationally-minded human with critical thinking skills and the ability to use basic logic, could make the leap after hearing his ridiculous story and looking at the facts now.

Finally, lying about your murdered family is not the same as giving a job interview at which you're slightly nervous. A person so passionately in love with his kids that he erupts in homicidal fury when they're harmed is not the same man who two days later smirks and giggles with slight "nerves" as he lies about them.

No that kind of man is the kind who wails and screams like women at a Bangladesh funeral, demands that he be put out of his misery, needs to be hospitalized and never, ever tries to hide what happened.

Prosecution Closing Argument, right here.
 
  • #264
The proof of his guilt is in the aftermath imo. Who disposes of bodies (and in such a desecrating way) if they are innocent? An innocent person would have nothing to hide, nothing to lie about. Calling 911 and having LE immediately at the house afterward would make his story believable. The forensics of her strangling the children would be obvious. There would be no wrong doing on his behalf and he would work with LE instead of against them. He would bury his children in a way that memorialized them.

His instincts here show me that he is entirely guilty. Like a child who breaks a cookie jar while sneaking cookies, haphazardly cleans it up, and denies ever touching it even though there are remnants on the floor and crumbs on his face.

but he is not an innocent person . He murdered his wife and moved bodies.

Shortly after that , he told authorities where to go to get his babies out of horrible oil things

panic

the stuff about hiding smells makes no sense - you bury your wife close to the surface and worry about decomp smells

i think the oil reflects total panic
 
  • #265
I might write a scenario setting out CW’s possible defense. Then all of us...myself included...can shred it. But not emotionally...logically.

And preferably without call to logical fallacies :)
 
  • #266
Unless that’s already been discounted because he doesn’t prefer the opposite gender and CW had been on some of the trips with them.
I posted on this prior as well. Given he is outwardly not interested in the opposite sex, it’s non relevant. In fact, there are two of such gentleman.
IDK who the heck y'all are talking about, but how would you know this person's sexual preferences?
 
  • #267
He isn't cunning. It very well may be that he didn't spend days or weeks planning these murders. I believe that at some point he decided to kill his family. The time frame from that decision to acting on it might be small. But I believe it was deliberate.

I don't see the man as much of a planner anyway. SW made him 5 weeks worth of meals while she was away. He was doted on and babied. Not knowing how to clean up the crime scene efficiently doesn't mean he didn't commit murder.
Yes, THIS. This is exactly where my thoughts return when I try to remain open to the possibility of reasonable doubt. I just cannot get past the fact that he acted guilty by trying to cover things up. You are exactly right when you say that an innocent person would call 911.

Why would he cover for his wife if he truly knew that she had killed his children? Not in a million years would I cover for anyone who killed my child. I would scream from the rooftops that the person did it. I would be enraged, distraught, astonished, just absolutely beside myself. Yet, CW gave interview after interview where he shrugged and went on about his "vanished" family. No, if he truly saw someone else kill his child, he would want justice. I cannot convince myself otherwise.

However, we don't get to decide his fate. This is left in the hands of the jury he will face. I just hope that the jury is able to see his many deceptions and not dishonor the memory of SW and her beautiful children.

His story doesn't make any sense. Any human being would have socked the "murdering parent" and called 911 if he/she found the spouse murdering their kids. The baby monitor was B/W according to other posters, and if a person takes 20 minutes to turn blue, that also blows his stupid unbelievable story to bits.

Until I hear differently I will assume he had scoped out the tanks for a future burying spot, if only in "jest" in a sick mind. After (IMO) killing them all, he knew exactly where to go, tanks that were not in current use according to reports. So I think he had the plan to kill them, or at least her. If she disappeared he would get the kids, the house, the dog, and the girlfriend. Unfortunately for him, he found it necessary (IMO) to kill the kids too, because of what....they saw him murder mommy, when it all became too loud.
 
  • #268
This is so complex, after watching the videos I see Chris as a very meek and mild type of guy, Patient with the kids and at his wife’s beck and call, I think he was probably sick of that life and became depressed, it was all so fake with that Thrive crap, I think he just snapped under the pressure.
 
  • #269
I agree!
It’s always good to consider both sides, imo. At the same time that it kind of irritates me when someone tries to defend CW, I remind myself that it’s important to hear other opinions from those who believe differently because it makes me think more critically and question my belief that he killed all 3, and that he premeditatively planned it.
I know it may feel threatening or even seem like bullying when others have opposing views - but everyone is just expressing their opinions from their own experiences most of the time.
In other words, opposing views shouldn’t threaten anyone, it should instead - cement your opinion by encouraging more critical thinking/research.
So far, my opinion hasn’t changed - but I’m still waiting (withholding final judgment) until we get more facts and I really want to hear from someone that CW was a good boy/man before he married SW (or pre-Colorado). Where are they? Does anyone have any PAST information on CW?
Absolutely agree. WS Admins and Owner has stated this importance of looking at all sides. This ain’t their first rodeo either.
If most are feeling like me, provide the WS mandated links or sources, or anything other than just being argumentative just for the sake of.
A court wouldn’t allow such presumed behavior. “Because I said so” doesn’t cut the mustard... OR the french bread (bad joke for levity).
I myself have taken the time to research the MLM business, ingredients, finances and while some a very little, or a lot depending on their dynamic, could play into.... there are zero precious successful cases, arguments, own life experiences, psychological or psychological contributors that would come into play as a reasonable doubt. I’m still open though. ‍♀️
 
  • #270
I thought the dolly pic was odd looking, but someone said it was a Twister mat. Since toddlers don't cover dollies like we would, that's very plausible to me.

it was posted around noon when he was hard a work providing for his family
 
  • #271
The comment of turning blue bothers me .
The baby monitor on FB is black and white unless they bought a new one .
I have no knowledge of the physical effects of being strangled , I assume you may turn blue bc lack of oxygen however it is never mentioned he rendered CPR . I would think immediately your response would be to throw her (physically he is stronger) and try to save them and it would be a struggle.
Does anyone know when the “ blue” part would happen? He claims it was a short time period from conversation to this alleged act.
Somebody posted a couple of days ago that it took 20 minutes in a case they knew about with a child.
 
  • #272
I like this theory until the kids part. The first part is so likely and I've been in situations similar to this. I can imagine him trying to silence her by these means. But I don't think he would then address the kids. This doesn't make sense to me, but what does? We know he killed them so I don't know why I can't process this.

We know he killed her by his acknowledging that he did so .
 
  • #273
I am having a hard time understanding the bias (by some posters) toward SW being the murderer of her own children.

Yes, none of us, at this point, know the actual events...but if you look at ALL the behavior of CW, most especially his lies and willingness to hide his own flesh and blood in such a heinous manner...HE and ONLY HE is the guilty party here.

Ok so this is not going to be popular.
I’m just curious. Are you SO sure that you know how this happened that you would bet everything you own or your child’s life on this assumption. I’m not “supporting” CW or “biased” against SW but I also would NEVER bet my child’s life on the belief that it happened one way or another at this stage of the investigation. This is where I am coming from. I Find it difficult to believe that any human can kill another human. So yes it is difficult for me to believe a mother would kill her own child but it has happened. Look it up.
 
  • #274
I'm waiting for more Affair Persons (APs) to come forward. To me CW appears to be a conniving individual . He & Shannan had been married for just 6 years, but that's plenty of time to have more than one AP.

Shannan appears to be no nonsense & I feel she would not put up with CWs philandering , not even for a second. But, she would not kill her two children because of anything he said or did to her.

Shannan was sparkling sunshine, beauty and joy. CW is mud , dirt, poop, pond scum, and crude oil.

Innocent people do not do such horrible things to loved ones bodies, like he did.

And to think that he put them in that tank to keep them warm or close to him is ludicrous. He put them there, out in the middle of nowhere to dispose of them where they would never be found.

All above is MOO



*someone upstream mentioned CW putting children in tanks for reasons of warmth & keeping them close . I could not disagree more.

that scum put them there to abate the odor
 
  • #275
  • #276
This is so complex, after watching the videos I see Chris as a very meek and mild type of guy, Patient with the kids and at his wife’s beck and call, I think he was probably sick of that life and became depressed, it was all so fake with that Thrive crap, I think he just snapped under the pressure.

I'll admit a possible scenario. Also possible is a murder-suicide scenario. He was depressed and planned to kill them and himself. But when it came time to kill himself, he then just couldn't do it and had to quickly figure out what to do next, hence the sloppiness of this.
 
  • #277
Somebody posted a couple of days ago that it took 20 minutes in a case they knew about with a child.

I posted the link last thread

apparently what happens is the lips go blue very quick while being strangled (lack of oxygen) when not deceased yet.
 
  • #277
I would say he would have better odds convincing the children that they didn't see what they saw vs. what you are saying. IMO.
Yes, he is quite manipulative and deceitful. I think he's a terrible liar, but possibly good enough to convince a 3 or 4 year-old. An adult jury is a different matter.

JMO
 
  • #278
but he is not an innocent person . He murdered his wife and moved bodies.

Shortly after that , he told authorities where to go to get his babies out of horrible oil things

panic

the stuff about hiding smells makes no sense - you bury your wife close to the surface and worry about decomp smells

i think the oil reflects total panic

it was posted around noon when he was hard a work providing for his family
Or fooling around on lunch hour.
 
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  • #279
I posted the link last thread

apparently what happens is the lips go blue very quick while being strangled (lack of oxygen) when not deceased yet.
And so do the beds of fingernails. But the image of seeing the child stretched out and with the body blue.....does not ring true to me.
 
  • #280
I don’t believe his version of events - that SW killed her kids in a rage - but I think you make an interesting point about her potential reaction to him leaving her. She is dependent on him practically and emotionally, and her career success is built on the image of their perfect family. So maybe there was a heated exchange that spiralled out of control, rather than a cold, calculated disposal of an entire family. Just something to consider

Her success was built upon her and her ability to market everything positively. I would venture to say that had they divorced her posts would read like this:

“Single mommin’ is HARD! Working, caring for 3 under 5, there just aren’t enough hours in the day! Thanks to Thrive, I only need to sleep 27 minutes per night! And I make more money than ever! Thrive has given me all of the physical AND financial resources to rock this single mom thing! Thanks to THRIVE I have the money and the energy to live my best life!”

And then she would have an entire new audience to sell to! So many single moms fall for MLM’s. They buy into the belief that they would be owning their own business and being able to afford to spend more time with their kids. This isn’t a knock on single moms. I am one and can honestly say owning my own business (not an MLM) is a dream come true, so I understand the willingness to get involved.

Shanann would kept on doing just fine.
 
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