Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #47

[Seattle1]

I also think LE deserves a lot of credit here. They jumped on this VERY quickly and that is not always the case. My brother-in-law publicly threatened to kill my pregnant sister and the next day she disappeared with her toddler son. LE wouldn't let us file a missing person's report until 24 hours later and they offered no assistance until 3 days had passed. The reasoning was that she was an adult and the child was not endangered since he was with her. Since then, I've met other families who have had the same outcome.

Point being, LE could've dragged their heels on this and they didn't. That could very well have been what solved this case. If CW had been given an extra 24 hours, much less 48 hours, there's no telling what could've happened.

I foresee CW still casting the blame on SW. I think he'll admit to killing everyone, but somehow insinuate that it was her fault. That she somehow "drove" him to it. And the people who are CW apologists will continue to do the same. It's not fair, and it's not right, but I don't think that will change.

The good thing is that the SW supporters will outnumber the rest, her memory will continue to shine, and he will be locked up. The unfairness of it all will continue to exist, but at least he'll be punished.

No doubt - great work and LE never dropped the ball.

Ironically, I think CW pointed the finger at himself before LE ever arrived on the property. Important to understand that NUA probably would have never contacted LE had CW cooperated with her after the first phone call. When NUA could not reach SW, it was CW who could not offer a reasonable explanation, and who at least 3 times refused to come home to assist. When LE arrived at the residence, and also experienced CW reluctance when asked to provide the keypad code to allow access, LE never took their eyes off of him.

The interviews were just icing on the cake. MOO

 

[Tranquileyes]

Like many of you, I was shocked to check the news and learn that CW admitted to killing his entire family. However, when I learned it was to remove the death penalty as an option, it just further proved his selfishness.

At first, he had “no inclination”. Then, he only killed SW after witnessing her strangle the children. Finally, he admits the truth, but again, only to serve himself, to save himself the embarrassment of all his secrets and lies that would come out in court, not only to his family and friends, but to hers as well.

I still do not think he planned to murder them when he did. Being that he was having an affair and had spent five weeks without his family and had a taste of the single life (not really, though because SW prepped all his food and had a beautifully decorated home for him in her absence), I am quite positive that he considered their murders and maybe even did some research. However, the sloppy job he did and the short amount of time he gave himself to do it coupled with her doctors appointment the next morning, doesn't lend itself to planning to do this on that specific day. I do feel that "emotional conversation", whatever that entailed, did spark an argument that escalated and he deliberately decided to go forward with his previous thoughts that evening. Regardless, he did not think far enough because he put himself in a very tough position to get out of as a result.

Why leave the house with loose ends? If the girls were gone already, wouldn't he have had more time to stage things with SW even with her flight delay? How could he be sure no one would come looking for her while he was at work?

And if this was all planned to happen that day, then he is even more stupid than he has already proved himself to be.

I'm glad that her family will not have to endure years of unrest and a lengthy trial. They can be done with this nightmare and focus on healing themselves as best as they can without three (plus 1) beautiful members of their family while he can spend the rest of his miserable life in prison.

While others have commented that his narcissistic nature would not allow him to commit suicide, I don't completely put it past him.

Recalling Tyler Tessier who killed his pregnant girlfriend while simultaneously having another relationship with a woman to whom he proposed, he too staged interviews and even wept on camera holding her family's hand while pleading for her return. Of course, this starkly contrasts with CW and his porch interviews, but point being on the day of trial, he got dressed for court, ate breakfast, and then committed suicide. He thought that he would be able to get away with what he did and be free to live his life with the other woman without worrying that a baby on the way would ruin that for him. Once he realized, he was done for, and he would never attain that life, he killed himself.

Will CW do the same? Who knows, but what other hope could he possibly be holding out for?

This is all just so tragic, and I'm sad that I ever had to learn about Shan'ann, Bella, Celeste, and Nico in this manner. May they rest in eternal peace.

 

[kaykay543]

I was fascinated by the people willing to “wait for more facts” myself, when it seemed to me there were plenty of facts to go with. However, SEVERAL people entertained the possibility that he was telling the truth and I’ve pondered over why that is myself and will offer my opinion (which may be flawed).

I think it’s partly because SW put out so many of the THRIVE videos and people watched them and looked for clues in them. I think familiarity bred contempt for some people -and there were so many of those videos (that had never been intended for the public at large to dissect) that they became a red herring.

Personally the videos seemed to me to prove her innocence more than point to possible guilt. She sort of wears her heart on her sleeve in them to me. I saw a very ebullient lady who was trying to market the hell out of a dubious product but others seemed to view them differently. They may have fostered shadenfreude and there was a kind of herd mentality that followed when people viewed them en masse. The videos also presented a story of contentment and happiness-but how could that REALLY be true if her husband killed all of them? And when he showed up in them, he looked benign and not like we envision killer dads or spouses to look.

On the other hand, there wasn’t much info on Chris Watts to look through. We only had her take on Chris’ personality which was glaringly unreliable in wake of the things he had done. So perhaps her own gushing reverence of him called her credibility into question.

I never wavered for a second when it came to believing in his guilt, but I think the main thing that made people give him the benefit of the doubt was subconscious fear. People don’t like to believe that a seemingly normal, family man can snap so abruptly and with such little forewarning. If Chris Watts was capable of that, who isn’t? It doesn’t make logical sense and in order for people to accept that such a tragedy had happened, they wanted to find a place to assign blame. The wife was the natural culprit. It is pretty common for people to do this-I’ve seen it happen before in many cases where the husband has killed his wife and/or kids. However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a victim get so much slack as I’ve seen heaped upon SW in the past few months.

I thought it was cut and dry from the moment their bodies were recovered but this wasn’t the case for many people. That’s why it’s such a relief that he’s plead guilty. Yet still there are many die hard CW supporters who refuse to believe it, even AFTER he’s purportedly come clean! They feel he was railroaded into a plea deal and that he is still innocent of killing the girls. These people really want to believe him because they’ve invested a lot of time defending him. They are disappointed that the defense will never be given a chance to pick the videos apart and they keep pointing to those absurd videos when the most telling videos of all are the 3 where be spoke to the press.

It proves that some people are far more committed to what they want to believe to be the truth than reality. JMO

I really agree with people being scared to believe someone who looks so “normal” can murder his entire family. I think that must be where most of it comes from. And it is scary to think maybe we never know someone like we think we do.

I also think women are much harder on other women which always makes me sad.

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting discussion. What occurs to me I haven't really explored in much depth, I just sense it to be true.

I don't think he identified with either of his daughters. I think the descriptions he gave were repetitions of stuff that's been observed by everyone else about the girls.

I think his experience of the world isn't like that - identifying and attaching. I think he observes and learns behaviors to fit in with society, and copies. Therefore maybe he didn't detach at all (if he was never bonded) but just stopped his behaviors because he was concentrating on new behaviors in a new life with new people.

I find it hard to express but I think that is the only explanation I can come up with for him being able to strangle his babies. Otherwise if he saw them as images of himself it would be like harming himself, when the opposite is true. He felt freedom and excitement.

I just think his experience can't be compared to a "normal" experience.

 

[tmar]

I was fascinated by the people willing to “wait for more facts” myself, when it seemed to me there were plenty of facts to go with. However, SEVERAL people entertained the possibility that he was telling the truth and I’ve pondered over why that is myself and will offer my opinion (which may be flawed).

I think it’s partly because SW put out so many of the THRIVE videos and people watched them and looked for clues in them. I think familiarity bred contempt for some people -and there were so many of those videos (that had never been intended for the public at large to dissect) that they became a red herring.

Personally the videos seemed to me to prove her innocence more than point to possible guilt. She sort of wears her heart on her sleeve in them to me. I saw a very ebullient lady who was trying to market the hell out of a dubious product but others seemed to view them differently. They may have fostered shadenfreude and there was a kind of herd mentality that followed when people viewed them en masse. The videos also presented a story of contentment and happiness-but how could that REALLY be true if her husband killed all of them? And when he showed up in them, he looked benign and not like we envision killer dads or spouses to look.

On the other hand, there wasn’t much info on Chris Watts to look through. We only had her take on Chris’ personality which was glaringly unreliable in wake of the things he had done. So perhaps her own gushing reverence of him called her credibility into question.

I never wavered for a second when it came to believing in his guilt, but I think the main thing that made people give him the benefit of the doubt was subconscious fear. People don’t like to believe that a seemingly normal, family man can snap so abruptly and with such little forewarning. If Chris Watts was capable of that, who isn’t? It doesn’t make logical sense and in order for people to accept that such a tragedy had happened, they wanted to find a place to assign blame. The wife was the natural culprit. It is pretty common for people to do this-I’ve seen it happen before in many cases where the husband has killed his wife and/or kids. However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a victim get so much slack as I’ve seen heaped upon SW in the past few months.

I thought it was cut and dry from the moment their bodies were recovered but this wasn’t the case for many people. That’s why it’s such a relief that he’s plead guilty. Yet still there are many die hard CW supporters who refuse to believe it, even AFTER he’s purportedly come clean! They feel he was railroaded into a plea deal and that he is still innocent of killing the girls. These people really want to believe him because they’ve invested a lot of time defending him. They are disappointed that the defense will never be given a chance to pick the videos apart and they keep pointing to those absurd videos when the most telling videos of all are the 3 where be spoke to the press.

It proves that some people are far more committed to what they want to believe to be the truth than reality. JMO

This 'normal husband/father'.
In time, a great deal of info may come to light, regarding CW's affairs.
We may have many threads discussing how CW managed this 'outside' life, besides being a husband/father.
If this is revealed, (if correct) we may find, 'no one' knew CW at all.
MOO.

 

[Kadoober]

Did we ever find out if the Wattses knew about the neighbor's camera? I remember learning about that here and in the Tibbets case and assuming that would never happen in my rural area, and then I found out one of my neighbors in fact does have a camera set up.

Just curious if it was something that was overlooked or unknown.

I actually thought he had no idea, but reading the bit of the affidavit that was posted in the last thread, I think he did know.
It says that on scene, the Detective asked CW to walk him through the time he last saw Shanann. CW says she arrived home at at approximately 1:48AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded NUA's car leaving their home at exactly 1:48AM.
On scene, CW says he backed the truck up to the garage at approximately 5:27AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded this event at....5:27AM!

This sounds to me like someone very aware of the cameras, making careful note of things that would be captured, and when.

If I am reading this correctly, that he gave them exact times using 'approximately', which were later backed up by cameras as precise, this had to have been one of the first (of many) red flags that something was very, very wrong.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I'm curious about this, too. We know it's life, but to make it easier on his family, can they move him to where they live? I would hate to think his family, after going through all this, would have to up and move to be close to him. He can have visitors, correct? @gitana1 ??

Ebm spelling

If he was my son I would disown him.

 

[Jennifer17]

I actually thought he had no idea, but reading the bit of the affidavit that was posted in the last thread, I think he did know.
It says that on scene, the Detective asked CW to walk him through the time he last saw Shanann. CW says she arrived home at at approximately 1:48AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded NUA's car leaving their home at exactly 1:48AM.
On scene, CW says he backed the truck up to the garage at approximately 5:27AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded this event at....5:27AM!

This sounds to me like someone very aware of the cameras, making careful note of things that would be captured, and when.

If I am reading this correctly, that he gave them exact times using 'approximately', which were later backed up by cameras as precise, this had to have been one of the first (of many) red flags that something was very, very wrong.

I think that he learned of the cameras and the times after the first interview. I am pretty sure that he gave those times in the later interviews.
I think that we spoke about this in the days following his arrest.

 

[ReckoningDay]

I have a theory about why some people seem to have a lot of supporters, even though they appear so guilty. (This is not aimed at you Tippy) I think a spark of attraction can muddle the mind. This has been evident in several cases; three spring to mind, especially.
Let me make clear first, that I immediately sensed guilt in all three, so neither of them seemed attractive because I "knew" they were evil. But subjectively speaking, I can see how they might all three be considered above average.
That was CW, and then the JA and CA cases. As I said...to me CW seemed evil, but women were falling all over themselves to make it SWs fault.
In the JA and CA cases, I thought both of them came across as fake and mean looking B%@#$ just to be honest, but men seemed to find them pretty and sympathetic. I've noticed that in any case which has a particularly homely suspect, people immediately assume them guilty, though. (I am not going to mention who I consider homely.) Is it possible that subconscious physical attraction muddies the waters on this?
Am I alone in this observation?

 

[Seattle1]

I actually thought he had no idea, but reading the bit of the affidavit that was posted in the last thread, I think he did know.
It says that on scene, the Detective asked CW to walk him through the time he last saw Shanann. CW says she arrived home at at approximately 1:48AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded NUA's car leaving their home at exactly 1:48AM.
On scene, CW says he backed the truck up to the garage at approximately 5:27AM.
It later notes that cameras recorded this event at....5:27AM!

This sounds to me like someone very aware of the cameras, making careful note of things that would be captured, and when.

If I am reading this correctly, that he gave them exact times using 'approximately', which were later backed up by cameras as precise, this had to have been one of the first (of many) red flags that something was very, very wrong.

What changed was that CW was not speaking from memory, he was speaking the evidence.

 

[Thepoet]

BBM

I'm a nervous laugher and joker myself, so that was something I wanted to keep an open mind about and not something I judged him for right away.

For me, personally, though, the word nervous is key, and it's very much a thing that happens when I am feeling awkward. It's not something I personally do when I am really upset or terrified. But if all he had done was randomly nervously giggled but otherwise seemed like a genuinely distraught husband and father, I would have been willing to overlook it.

He looked well rested, well groomed, and there was no sadness in his eyes. I looked for sadness, worry, and stress. I saw nothing. There Should have something, but there wan't even fatique! Who here wouldn't have been up all night worrying?

 

[Zella]

He looked well rested, well groomed, and there was no sadness in his eyes. I looked for sadness, worry, and stress. I saw nothing. There Should have something, but there wan't even fatique! Who here wouldn't have been up all night worrying?

Yep, pretty much the equivalent of dry-eyed "crying"!

If I had not known the topic of the interview and watched it muted, I would never have known this was a man in an apparently distressing situation.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

His whole description of them seems forced and unnatural. That’s why it’s so awkward. He’s trying not to trip things up but he’s not describing children he wants back. He’s rambling incoherently, providing little snippets here and there designed to make him seem like he’s a caring “normal” dad. He knows what he thinks nobody else suspects and he’s acting, but he’s a very bad actor.

And yes-I think identifying with Bella as “calm and mothering” while juxtaposing that with the “yelling, like mom troublemaker” is revealing and also designed to evoke sympathy for him as a patient nurturer opposed to a loud and difficult Shan’ann whom he rarely mentions by name. It’s probable that he identified with Bella more but I also think she arrived at a point in their marriage when things were better and he was more emotionally invested. SW often complained about Celeste’s precocious and unyielding personality but I feel it was in jest. She often would exclaim “my kids are CRAZY” and laugh about it, but it was also said with love and the mock exasperation of a harried housewife.

I think when CW did these interviews he hated/resented SW and I also think he failed to think of the girls as anything more than extensions of her. They were “her people” and he failed to bring up anything about either of them that seems authentic or that reveals parental love and concern.

I wonder if he still has a family picture tacked up in his cell or if that was for show all along. Am guessing he doesn’t need to try to impress anyone with phony devotion after this week. He’d better keep that bible around though.

I have read on other sites that those descriptions were not his own words, that he was mimicking w

I was fascinated by the people willing to “wait for more facts” myself, when it seemed to me there were plenty of facts to go with. However, SEVERAL people entertained the possibility that he was telling the truth and I’ve pondered over why that is myself and will offer my opinion (which may be flawed).

I think it’s partly because SW put out so many of the THRIVE videos and people watched them and looked for clues in them. I think familiarity bred contempt for some people -and there were so many of those videos (that had never been intended for the public at large to dissect) that they became a red herring.

Personally the videos seemed to me to prove her innocence more than point to possible guilt. She sort of wears her heart on her sleeve in them to me. I saw a very ebullient lady who was trying to market the hell out of a dubious product but others seemed to view them differently. They may have fostered shadenfreude and there was a kind of herd mentality that followed when people viewed them en masse. The videos also presented a story of contentment and happiness-but how could that REALLY be true if her husband killed all of them? And when he showed up in them, he looked benign and not like we envision killer dads or spouses to look.

On the other hand, there wasn’t much info on Chris Watts to look through. We only had her take on Chris’ personality which was glaringly unreliable in wake of the things he had done. So perhaps her own gushing reverence of him called her credibility into question.

I never wavered for a second when it came to believing in his guilt, but I think the main reason that made people give him the benefit of the doubt was simply subconscious fear. People don’t like to believe that a seemingly normal, family man can snap so abruptly and with such little forewarning. If Chris Watts was capable of that, who isn’t? It doesn’t make logical sense and in order for people to accept that such a tragedy had happened, they wanted to find a place to assign blame. The wife was the natural culprit. It is pretty common for people to do this-I’ve seen it happen before in many cases where the husband has killed his wife and/or kids. However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a victim get so much slack as I’ve seen heaped upon SW in the past few months.

I thought it was cut and dry from the moment their bodies were recovered but this wasn’t the case for many people. That’s why it’s such a relief that he’s plead guilty. Yet still there are many die hard CW supporters who refuse to believe it, even AFTER he’s purportedly come clean! They feel he was railroaded into a plea deal and that he is still innocent of killing the girls. These people really want to believe him because they’ve invested a lot of time defending him. They are disappointed that the defense will never be given a chance to pick the videos apart and they keep pointing to those absurd videos when the most telling videos of all are the 3 where be spoke to the press.

It proves that some people are far more committed to what they want to believe to be the truth than reality. JMO

Agree, it seems they were/still are so invested in their dislike of SW that they have to believe she is responsible for their deaths. I saw a very caring mother, outgoing and kind.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Interesting discussion. What occurs to me I haven't really explored in much depth, I just sense it to be true.

I don't think he identified with either of his daughters. I think the descriptions he gave were repetitions of stuff that's been observed by everyone else about the girls.

I think his experience of the world isn't like that - identifying and attaching. I think he observes and learns behaviors to fit in with society, and copies. Therefore maybe he didn't detach at all (if he was never bonded) but just stopped his behaviors because he was concentrating on new behaviors in a new life with new people.

I find it hard to express but I think that is the only explanation I can come up with for him being able to strangle his babies. Otherwise if he saw them as images of himself it would be like harming himself, when the opposite is true. He felt freedom and excitement.

I just think his experience can't be compared to a "normal" experience.

I think you are spot on, he just stopped acting like he had an attachment to his little girls. He was never capable of real love or care for anyone.

 

[Kadoober]

What changed was that CW was not speaking from memory, he was speaking the evidence.

Ok, gotcha. 'On scene' was what threw me, I thought the times he gave were given to the detective upon his first contact with LE after calling them.

ETA
...sigh... then again
It says the officer and detective examined the bed, saw the sheets had been removed, found her cell phone in the loft, and then talked to CW and he said 1:48AM was approximately when she came home. So it does seem like it was that initial contact that he gave that time.

Irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when he knew. He sucks.

 

[tmar]

New thread. Thank you.

Can someone ask Nua or the Thayers to become a v.i here?

Maybe they cannot, until after 19th.
There is the possibility, they may be required as witnesses, IF 19th does not go to plan.
MOO.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Prior to CW's guilty plea I was open to the idea that he was telling the truth. I was 99% sure he was responsible, but I was still open to it until I had more information. Now that he's plead guilty I'm completely embarrassed and to be honest, I'm not sure I'll ever be so open to other possibilities again. Has anyone else followed a thread and gone down this road before?

Don’t be embarrassed, we’re not all the best judges of character. And some just want to believe there is good in people until proven otherwise.

 

[Jennifer17]

Maybe they cannot, until after 19th.
There is the possibility, they may be required as witnesses, IF 19th does not go to plan.
MOO.

I would say that both of them are pretty sick and tired of people wanting to question them.

 

[Mitch11]

Interesting discussion. What occurs to me I haven't really explored in much depth, I just sense it to be true.

I don't think he identified with either of his daughters. I think the descriptions he gave were repetitions of stuff that's been observed by everyone else about the girls.

I think his experience of the world isn't like that - identifying and attaching. I think he observes and learns behaviors to fit in with society, and copies. Therefore maybe he didn't detach at all (if he was never bonded) but just stopped his behaviors because he was concentrating on new behaviors in a new life with new people.

I find it hard to express but I think that is the only explanation I can come up with for him being able to strangle his babies. Otherwise if he saw them as images of himself it would be like harming himself, when the opposite is true. He felt freedom and excitement.

I just think his experience can't be compared to a "normal" experience.

I think you explain yourself really well. And I totally agree. I think people struggle to understand why he did it and that's because they are 'normal'. CW may have looked and acted normal, but his thinking is completely abnormal, like many other criminals in the justice system.

I have to say it amazes me how all these CW supporters came out after looking through social media posts and declared he is a great dad who has been done wrong by SW. I couldn't and still cant get over that. Was it not completely obvious that he was a fraud. IMO he is a typical narcissist who is like a chameleon, shaping himself to fit what he is supposed to do, too look good. No GOOD dad dumps the bodies of his beloved children in tanks of oil, regardless of what has happened. I find it crazy how anyone could see otherwise.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Is the VI still on this thread who supported CW?