Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #56

[BingoBongo]

This case has held special interest for me for the mere reason that I truly believe, as a society, we are seeing more and more people who, IMO, are probably diagnosable with NPD/Sociopathy/Psychopathy.

Not sure if it's just that we hear about it more via social media/internet, or if the prevalence is increasing...probably a bit of both.

If it is increasing, it's probably due to population growth, increasingly bad parenting (drugs, alcohol, lack of morals), and, as a Christian, I do believe evil is walking the earth with greater strength and frequency. :-(

As a member of several on-line communities dedicated to learning more about these personality issues, I read about many men/women/children/employers/employees who have suffered under the thumb of those who are blatantly causing grief.

Again, IMO, we need to increase awareness of the signs and parameters of NPD, particularly when it bleeds over into the extremes that can and do lead to harmful behavior. All NPD is emotionally/psychologically harmful and some physically. When empathy is removed, all hell breaks loose, literally.

As for forgiveness...again, as a Christian I see the need for, and heartily believe in, forgiving others. For their sake, and ours. BUT, there has to be criteria met in order to forgive. Acknowledgement of the crime, understanding the depth of damage caused by the crime, and TRUE repentance. Don't know if the families have heard that from CW , don't know if CW is even capable.

 

[Hazelnutty]

They did. She was able to get more details about the case. It doesn't mean she genuinely accepts them.

I hope someday she does, I know it must be horribly difficult to wrap your brain around a loved one committing such crimes.

But she comes across as caring more about herself and her son being in jail than the horror of the crimes committed. The 4 lives gone forever. I was repulsed by her statement to the court.

Moo

I was repulsed as well.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Yep, there was never any switching schools. I think "those people" heard something from their "source" about the call CW made to unenroll the girls and it somehow got to SW was switching schools.

RSBM

I'm curious what he told the school when he called. Not sure how it works in Co.

Where I live 5 is not compulsory, but if they are enrolled you can't pull them w/o giving the name of the school they'll be going to. They won't put the paperwork through without that information so I'm curious if he gave an excuse.

 

[BingoBongo]

Wanted to ad something that's been hounding me all day. I pray that my daughter never intentionally causes anyone physical harm (see no reason why she would, or even could), but, if she did, she will ALWAYS be my child, and I will ALWAYS love her...no matter what.

It would break me, and inside I would die a little, but as a mother, I can understand CW's mothers words. Don't know enough about her to comment intelligently, but Cindy is probably the reason CW is as he is today, and, if she even realizes that just a bit, her hell is here on earth.

 

[Layla123]

I think the DA just may not have wanted to get into the details. It's the only possibility I can think of, or he just forgot.

I think he stood there willing to answer every question asked until every question was answered, as long as it took, but nobody asked. Darn It! We should have been there!

 

[pocketaccent]

IIRC someone from DAs office went to her hotel room with information regarding what Christopher did to his wife and Children.

I could be wrong. This has been a highly emotional week.

Correct. They showed the evidence to the parents on Sunday night. Mom and dad could not deny afterwards.

Gardenista posted this radio interview earlier. Rourke explains here.
Weld County DA Talks Watts Case | Colorado's Morning News | KOA NewsRadio

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Wanted to ad something that's been hounding me all day. I pray that my daughter never intentionally causes anyone physical harm (see no reason why she would, or even could), but, if she did, she will ALWAYS be my child, and I will ALWAYS love her...no matter what.

It would break me, and I inside I would die a little, but as a mother, can understand, a little, CW's mothers words. Don't know enough about her to comment intelligently, but Cindy is probably the reason CW is as he is today, and, if she even realizes that just a bit, her hell is here on earth.

I can understand always loving your child. That's not a switch you can just turn off.

I can understand being in denial.

I cannot understand the forgiveness or many of the other comments made or the time and place those comments were made.

Moo

 

[gitana1]

"Not to be overlooked, Shanann had just returned from a work trip the night she was killed, which meant investigators needed to confirm she hadn't been drinking by interviewing anyone and everyone she might have come into contact with in Arizona, at the airport and even on the airplane."

"Had there been reports in the media that Shanann had a BAC of .128, it might have made people question what they had seen," Rourke said. "Because those reports had not been made public, everyone we interviewed was certain that they never saw Shanann drinking anything other than water."
‘About as big as it gets:’ Gravity of lifetime sentence for Watts not lost on Weld DA

I was very wrong on that and Amandaa was right.

She said there might be something "bad" for Shanann in the reports and that maybe the state had to do more research. That turns out to be true, at least in the sense that people would've assumed Shanann was drunk - which would have been bad for her - and they needed to "research" by contacting every person who was with her that night to make sure she had not been drinking.

 

[Seattle1]

Turns out Rourke and Weld County Coroner Carl Blesch had a compelling reason to keep the autopsy reports under wraps.

As has now been widely reported, Shanann had a blood-alcohol content of .128 percent at the time of her autopsy. Although a raised BAC is a natural part of the decomposition process, Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant at the time of her death and Rourke worried the media would spin that information to raise suspicions about her innocence.

Not to be overlooked, Shanann had just returned from a work trip the night she was killed, which meant investigators needed to confirm she hadn't been drinking by interviewing anyone and everyone she might have come into contact with in Arizona, at the airport and even on the airplane.

"Had there been reports in the media that Shanann had a BAC of .128, it might have made people question what they had seen," Rourke said. "Because those reports had not been made public, everyone we interviewed was certain that they never saw Shanann drinking anything other than water."
‘About as big as it gets:’ Gravity of lifetime sentence for Watts not lost on Weld DA

 

[gitana1]

I can understand always loving your child. That's not a switch you can just turn off.

I can understand being in denial.

I cannot understand the forgiveness or many of the other comments made or the time and place those comments were made.

Moo

Maybe she was just saying that so he would talk to her.

That's something floating around out there in internet land, apparently.

 

[scdiv]

I don't believe she is fully aware of anything.

I have a feeling she might have gotten a stern talking to about what would be allowed if she wanted to address the court and suspect she really feels the same as she did in her interviews. The Watts family already let their true colors show - and I agree with you: something is very, very wrong.

Moo

Edit: accidentally combined two posts

The fact that she stubbornly refused to go to her own son's wedding stands out. I cringed at much of her court statement and especially the "we forgive you." But she was so offensive in the days leading up to the sentencing that I was mostly relieved she didn't ask for leniency or cause any major disruption. I wonder if they will try to visit him in prison at some point and if he will see them.

I am so relieved for SW's family that at least the legal resolution was wrapped up before the holidays and isn't hanging over everyone's heads. I don't know that there will ever be closure, but at least that stressful element was removed. And I'm glad they had a kind, intelligent, competent DA who listened to them, heard them, treated them respect, dignity, deference, and did everything he could to secure justice for their family, as far as the law allows and taking into account their wishes. I am so sad and angry for them, but glad they got the best possible outcome under the circumstances.

 

[violet101]

RSBM

I'm curious what he told the school when he called. Not sure how it works in Co.

Where I live 5 is not compulsory, but if they are enrolled you can't pull them w/o giving the name of the school they'll be going to. They won't put the paperwork through without that information so I'm curious if he gave an excuse.

So I do know that Shanann commented on fb that Bella was starting school early at 4 years old by going to a private school. I know you can get around age requirement by going private. Her preschool has a kindergarten so I bet she was just going there.

 

[gitana1]

The fact that she stubbornly refused to go to her own son's wedding stands out. I cringed at much of her court statement and especially the "we forgive you." But she was so offensive in the days leading up to the sentencing that I was mostly relieved she didn't ask for leniency or cause any major disruption. I wonder if they will try to visit him in prison at some point and if he will see them.

I am so relieved for SW's family that at least the legal resolution was wrapped up before the holidays and isn't hanging over everyone's heads. I don't know that there will ever be closure, but at least that stressful element was removed. And I'm glad they had a kind, intelligent, competent DA who listened to them, heard them, treated them respect, dignity, deference, and did everything he could to secure justice for their family, as far as the law allows and taking into account their wishes. I am so sad and angry for them, but glad they got the best possible outcome under the circumstances.

Oh these holidays are going to be terrible for them. Man.

 

[BingoBongo]

I can understand always loving your child. That's not a switch you can just turn off.

I can understand being in denial.

I cannot understand the forgiveness or many of the other comments made or the time and place those comments were made.

Moo

It may be she felt it would be her only opportunity to express that. She may have been so focused on what she felt the need to say, to CW, that all ramifications as to who might have been hurt (by her words) were blocked out.

I wonder if the Rzucek's were made aware of the Watt's parents statement, before it was made. I bet that is a distinct possibility. The DA is smart, and seems very compassionate, I would hope he wouldn't want anyone to be blindsided by prepared statements.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm extremely interested in this question, also. In the very beginning, it was said by one of his friends that he was fired the week before on Thursday.

The week before what? He had his work truck and went to work on Monday and was arrested on Wednesday. I'm confused about what Thursday you were talking about?

 

[NuttMegg]

I posted this on Monday, seems like a good time to do it again.

https://www.atlantainjurylawblog.co...r-death-can-be-false-positive-up-to-0-20.html
"Blood Alcohol Scores After Death Can Be “False Positive” Up To 0.20
In handling wrongful death and life insurance claims for clients, I learned years ago that blood alcohol tests after a person dies may not be reliable. Due to postmortem fermentation when a body is not kept cool after death, there can be “false positive” blood alcohol reports up to 0.20 grams/% — 2 ½ times the legal limit of 0.08 for drivers and boaters in Georgia."

 

[Seattle1]

Frank Rzucek, the father of Shanann Watts, center, looks as the judge talks during the sentencing at the Weld County Courthouse on Monday in Greeley. Christopher Watts received three consecutive life sentences without a chance at parole on Monday, nearly two weeks after pleading guilty to avoid the death penalty. (RJ Sangosti/The Denver Post)

Rourke is hopeful Watts will speak out some day, but he's not willing to bet on it. With the exception of his initial statement to police and the day he pleaded guilty, Watts hasn't spoken about his case with anyone other than his attorneys.

"The day he hit the jail, he tried to call his dad once, but for some reason the call didn't go through," Rourke said. "He didn't make another phone call. We checked everyday to listen to his jail calls. He didn't call anyone."
‘About as big as it gets:’ Gravity of lifetime sentence for Watts not lost on Weld DA

 

[The Farm]

The fact that she stubbornly refused to go to her own son's wedding stands out.

Yes her and CW's sister, that really was a huge gigantic red flag when I heard that.
I have a daughter in her late 30's. She has grown into a wonderful young woman, smart, hard worker, college educated. I love her to death.
Unfortunately she has never picked very good boyfriends and they have all been kicked to the curb over the years.
Her latest? He does not drink, does not do drugs and has a good job. All you would think good points yes?
Well unfortunately it is all about him, him, him. His mother abandoned him with the father at a very young age and moved away.
The father raised him without her. She has popped up back in his life here and there now that he is a grown man.
I do not like him at all as he has issues with women which I can see quite plainly. He most likely should have had counseling when his mother took off but never did and I see he has issues with women. My daughter says he treats her well, but again let me emphasize it is all about HIM and what HE wants.
Now if they end up getting married? And I am hoping they do not.
I certainly will be at the wedding, she is my daughter and I love her. It is NOT about what I want.
I just could not refuse to not go, it would crush my daughter and just go against my grain.
So Cindy and the sister not going was bad right from the beginning and I would love to know what was SO BAD that they refused to go. Another why? And we most likely will never know but I can not personally imagine that choice.

 

[NuttMegg]

The fact that she stubbornly refused to go to her own son's wedding stands out. I cringed at much of her court statement and especially the "we forgive you." But she was so offensive in the days leading up to the sentencing that I was mostly relieved she didn't ask for leniency or cause any major disruption. I wonder if they will try to visit him in prison at some point and if he will see them.

I am so relieved for SW's family that at least the legal resolution was wrapped up before the holidays and isn't hanging over everyone's heads. I don't know that there will ever be closure, but at least that stressful element was removed. And I'm glad they had a kind, intelligent, competent DA who listened to them, heard them, treated them respect, dignity, deference, and did everything he could to secure justice for their family, as far as the law allows and taking into account their wishes. I am so sad and angry for them, but glad they got the best possible outcome under the circumstances.

The advocate who read the message of the Watts said that when they gave the interviews (earlier in the week) they didn't have all the facts or evidence. (paraphrased). Yet that does not explain away the CW Dad "he didn't love her no more".
So I'm happy they cleaned up their act for the world-wide audience, but their short statements were full of passive constructions, it happened, how did it happen. But he still has not had the opportunity (!!!) to confess to what he did, to explain the responsibility. Broadly paraphrased, however little if anything in there to say. "He killed them all." And CW Dad calling Shan'ann his daughter after saying his son didn't love her "no more". Some of this stuff must have wounded the Rzuceks to the core.

 

[Best of What's Around]

One “expert” take on life in prison for CW, from HLN cable headline news: