GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[MsBetsy]

No, he knew. That's why he "ran through the whole house before opening the front door" (to let NA & LE in). He had phones to turn off and hide.

Then tries to say he doesnt know her phone PW even though he later talks about having pw's to SW's accounts like FB.

He just ran out of time thanks to NA.

Moo

Yet he did nothing to get rid of the evidence on the phone. As soon as the phone turned on, there were several alerts from all the texts from people trying to reach her that morning. If he was really trying to cover his tracks, you would think he would have gotten rid of the one piece of evidence that would tell the story. He certainly didn't plan very well. Imo

 

[mrjitty]

I have my own theories with this. Killers like Edmund Kemper took their rage for their overbearing and cold mothers out on their victims. Many have noticed that Cindy and SW are both strong personalities (though Shanann showed she can be very warm and caring). I think he resents women like this, women who are assertive.

NK may have been assertive sexually but I get the sense she was, like most affair partners, more accommodating and passive emotionally. I think he began to see his daughters as bossy extensions of his wife. I keep seeing examples of CW speaking of them in a negative light and it's so sad.

Nichol said CW mentioned he knew he needed to separate from Shanann because the girls started to repeat the same negative things to him Shanann would say. And then there's this part of the document where he describes his routine with the girls. He sounds like he was full of disdain for them and found them demanding. His toddler children.

Just as an side - who the hell feeds toddlers pizza, fries or chicken mcnuggets after school?

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Just as an side - who the hell feeds toddlers pizza, fries or chicken mcnuggets after school?

That struck me as odd too. CW's claimed SW would just give them whatever they wanted, but by all accounts SW was OCD, planned everything, and was really into a healthy lifestyle.

Wouldn't she have their meals already planned out? And likely they'd be healthy?

I doubt it's of any relevance, but it did stick out to me.

Moo

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 2104

2139 hours: Shanann told Watts, "l was trying to get you to hug me. Make me feel safe. This is much deeper than 'lack of conversation !' Make me feel like everything is going to be ok."
Watts replied, "It will be ok. This will all get fixed."

Shanann responded, "No I don't need words damnit. You just told me you don't want this baby.

2145 hours: Watts replied to this, "I am scared ok. You wanted the truth and I told you how l felt."
Shanann replied, "You hold me after that conversation, you hold me. If you want this to last you make me feel safe after that bomb... Don't you get it?" Shanann added, "How many times do I have to ask you to hold me? You hate me that much?"

Watts eventually replied, "I don't hate you. I will fix this. It will be better."
Shanann noted, "You didn't answer me" and added, "I'm begging you to hold me and you still can't."
Watts replied, "I don't know where my head is at. I will fix it though."

2216 hours: Shanann wrote, "This isn't the only thing. This doesn't get your head all screwed up.
Something changed in the last 5 weeks... Something you won't say."

Poor, poor Shan’ann. She knows something is terribly wrong, she’s begging him for affection and to tell her what’s wrong, desperately trying to save the marriage and his answer over and over again is … “I’ll fix it”. And he did, permanently.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

The neighbor told LE he saw CW walk out his side gate down the street to where the Lexus was parked. Neighbor stated CW did this when SW was out of town.

What reason would he have for parking the car down the street when SW was gone? His gf knew he was still married and living with her so he didn't need to hide it.

Odd
Moo

 

[Sjm_qc]

I wonder that too. My guess is she has broken company policy. Maybe using email or company phone for inappropriate reasons (eg texting CW etc). But I do wonder why? Surely they can't just fire her for being his gf.

Colorado - like many others - is an “at will” employment state. An employee can be fired or let go for (just about) any reason or even no reason at all. There are exceptions.

Note that NK was not an Anadarko employee; she was contracted to work at Anadarko by her actual employer (name is in the discovery docs), which fired her after Anadarko terminated her contract.

ETA: I see this was already answered.

 

[mrjitty]

The statement on page 2119 says the monitor captured NU dropping Shanann home and Shanann walking up and entering the home. Then it says no movement was detected between 1.48 and 4.23. (Maybe it alerts to inside movement??)

It appears to alert to movement downstairs

I am guessing upstairs is excluded - usually you create a night zone which you don't monitor

 

[kiwilaura]

If you want to read about how torturous his time in jail was, read from discovery page 1309. Several pages of jail logs which are mostly tedious but also included heckling from other inmates.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

If you want to read about how torturous his time in jail was, read from discovery page 1309. Several pages of jail logs which are mostly tedious but also included heckling from other inmates.

Yes, that part was enjoyable.

Also notice the comment that CW "tried to manipulate the situation..."

And smiling, nodding, giving thumbs up.

CW'S is unbelievable.

Moo

 

[Tigerlily75]

I’m struggling with the position of Shan’ann’s body in the shallow grave. All this time I just subconsciously assumed she was laying on her back in the usual burial position. Instead she was literally just thrown in, face down, bum up. It’s just horrifying.

Also just read another account of Nutgate, in an affidavit from a N.C. friend. That family is a real piece of work. After Cindy literally chased the children trying to give them ice cream with nuts, the sister then stormed out on Shan’ann, went into the kitchen and started preparing a bowl of mixed nuts. When Shan’ann confronted her, she says “well we always keep nuts on the kitchen bench”.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t even have words.

I can’t believe how much effort Shan’ann put in with them for the sake of her husband, with the way they treated not just her, but her children - their own grandchildren. The mother and sister deliberately tried to make even Bella and Celeste feel less than the other grandchildren. I wonder if they even miss those kids at all. I’m doubtful. They are just hateful people.

On a lighter note, the ridiculous fan mail. I bet they didn’t know they would be published. How embarrassing!

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, that part was enjoyable.

Also notice the comment that CW "tried to manipulate the situation..."

And smiling, nodding, giving thumbs up.

CW'S is unbelievable.

Moo

He’s the kind of guy who would taunt a dog from behind the safety of a fence. If that dog got out, he’d freak.

On the inside, he’s praying the “dogs” don’t get out. He’s got decades in there, so you never know...

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 1895

Regarding Watts’ alleged rough behavior, Amanda said she was humiliated, it was weird and that Watts attempted to “stick it in her butt.” Amanda said Watts also pulled her hair and put his arms around her neck. She described it as a “rape fantasy.” Amanda explained (and demonstrated) she had to push Watts off her at one point.

Amanda continued to talk about how she couldn’t pick out 90% of the guys she’s slept with but remembered Watts due to his face, tattoos, his employment with Anadarko and his name. [She only knew him as "Chris"]

LE wouldn’t have been rushing to have her as a witness.

 

[Colorado303]

On this point - it seems she was already challenging him about the credit card charge from Saturday night. I think he did this because he no longer needed to hide anything. But maybe he didn't realise she would get an alert.

On the declined haircare products, i wasn't sure if she ordered at 2am or if it was merely declined at that time?

You may be right and he may have used the credit card rather than a gift card (like he had been doing w/NK until that night) because he knew it didn’t matter— SW would be gone. Or he may have run out of gift cards.

She questioned him about the amount of the charge he made on Saturday night but he gave her some bogus excuse and I’m not sure she took the discussion any further since she didn’t want to make waves. she may have pressed the issue when she got home but again she was trying to smooth things over w/him and not argue. I suspect finding out her credit card was declined would have made her even madder if she thought he’d been using it. If they did fight over it I don’t think that’s what made him decide to kill her but it may be what caused it to happen that night.

My gut always told me he planned in advance to kill her that night, but I expected to see more definitive evidence in the discovery docs confirming it. There are things that can be interpreted as proof of pre-planning but I’m now open to the possibility there was something that happened when she got home that night that escalated to murder.

 

[Colorado303]

Or...CW ordered with her CC, to make it look as if she was alive.

Great point. Had not thought of that.

 

[Mitch11]

Colorado - like many others - is an “at will” employment state. An employee can be fired or let go for (just about) any reason or even no reason at all. There are exceptions.

Note that NK was not an Anadarko employee; she was contracted to work at Anadarko by her actual employer (name is in the discovery docs), which fired her after Anadarko terminated her contract.

Thank you for clearing that up for me!

 

[Colorado303]

your pretty awesome too johnny
through some of those early dark days fighting against 'them' your championing of shanann was a highlight for us all

Very much so. You even took a TO hit for the cause and I’ll always appreciate it.

 

[Colorado303]

Can you qualify for another home loan when you are 3 months behind on loan payments?

Especially after a bankruptcy?

LOL! Absolutely not.

 

[Colorado303]

I agree! I guess that's why in the DA's press conference he hinted at NK being less helpful than he liked (that was my take on it).

When you read her interviews her story changes and each time her 'memory improves' (???). Eg visiting SWs house etc.

I got the impression the police interviewing her were concerned about her mental wellbeing. I can't recall where I read it in the documents, but it was suggested she needed psych support (or some other mental health support I believe)

I wonder if they didn't press her because she was a mess so to speak. I do feel this release of documents without redacting her Google searches etc really is their (LE) attempt to put the truth out there.

IIRC, she is the one that asked about getting some kind of psychological support during one of her interviews. I could have missed something but I didn’t get the impression LE was worried as much as responding to her request.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 2101
4 August

“You are just like them. Believe what he tells you and move back home where you weren't appreciated when I met you. No one ever protected you from your mom and someone should have before me. I'm done being the bad guy in all this. Especially when I had more balls to stand up for you a long time ago with them. My bad for thinking you deserved better. Not my kids are in the pic and I'm done."

Shanann told Watts, "… You just make it so they feel they did no wrong and brush it under the rug. I will never trust your parents alone with our kids. EVER! This is the week we started dating 8 years ago. They ruin everything special. I won't forgive you, or them, for that. I'm tired of it. I'm the one that takes care of you not them. You making me feel like complete these last several weeks, especially this week (and) I'm not ok with (it) and l won't change my ways when it comes to our kids. And I always defended you. Always."

This was 9 days before Shan’ann and the girls were out of his life forever.

 

[mrjitty]

Page 1895

Regarding Watts’ alleged rough behavior, Amanda said she was humiliated, it was weird and that Watts attempted to “stick it in her butt.” Amanda said Watts also pulled her hair and put his arms around her neck. She described it as a “rape fantasy.” Amanda explained (and demonstrated) she had to push Watts off her at one point.

Amanda continued to talk about how she couldn’t pick out 90% of the guys she’s slept with but remembered Watts due to his face, tattoos, his employment with Anadarko and his name. [She only knew him as "Chris"]

LE wouldn’t have been rushing to have her as a witness.

Thanks for this Judi

Just read it back. Agree she is a poor witness and not crucial to the case, which is why I guess LE didn't follow up much on the whole Tinder angle.

I am still willing to bet CW had a number of these hookups which escalate into his affair.

I also think the anal sex/choking and rape fantasy is significant.

In the Jo Yeates murder, the killer Tabak acted out his stangulation fantasy via escorts and .

This stuff seldom is 0 to 100