GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[NuttMegg]

Risky, but what with Chris Watt's being one of the dumbest criminals of all time, who knows?

Anyone who googles "how to react when someone says they love you", well too late for that person given that he's already pushing 35 years on the planet. I know that's not exactly what he googled, but it was something equally ridiculous.

 

[BelleIsle]

It wasn't me, but I did question why she didn't think it strange when CW told her that Shanann left her wedding ring behind. That would have been a huge red flag to me.

It does say she Googled the names in 2017. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe she liked him and wanted to find some information about them. Investigators have all the digital information, and it seems pretty clear that they didn't start their relationship until June. That would be easy to find out, so it's a mystery to me.

Thank you! I wondered if I was just reading it incorrectly somehow, maybe not understanding the format, idk. There are so many lies in this case that I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution had enough to get him, wanted to wrap it up quickly, and still have some questions themselves. Burner phones prior to June? Not giving a heck anymore and publicly acting on feelings that had been brewing for some time? Who knows what could have been deleted in those many months. All of the lies! Poor SW, sociopaths to her left and narcissists to her right.

 

[NuttMegg]

I just did a full search of the document and can’t find anything to that effect.

It must have come from somewhere else.

Thanks.

 

[NanZDrew]

Thanks, Colorado. I haven't been able to keep up and I’ve still only read the discovery in bits and pieces, but I’ve come across a few more answers (in red).

1. What was the significance of the non-porous bag and the footprint?
2. What did CW do with Shanann's engagement and wedding rings? We know from pg 5 of the discovery docs: “Christopher did come up to me [Officer Coonrod] holding Shanann's wedding ring and stated he found it on the night stand.”
3. What did the dogs alert on? From pg 40: While in the home, a track dog was asked to enter, as there had been some indication from the cadaver dog that a struggle or argument may have ensued. Jeff Hiebert and his K9 entered the home. Jeff stated that his dog showed interest in the unmade bed in the basement and an area just below the stairs, but did not do any final trained alerts. We exited the basement and went upstairs to the garage. No indicators were noted in the garage and we exited the home.
4. Will they ever release the police interview with Chris? Link to 8/15 polygraph and interview: Polygraph and Interview with Christopher Watts 08.15.18
5. What is the history about that doll photo on her FB? Pg 1913 – The doll photo was taken by CW and sent to SW. Pg 537 – Coder asks Chris if Bella did it and he said he didn’t recall. Per CW, Shanann thought it was funny.
6. Was NK the only AP or was there evidence he was out trolling for women (or men) on websites?
7. Was the alleged male AP "TB" for real or was he just inserting himself into the investigation?
8. NK "deleted" texts & FB posts before contacting LE. Do we know if LE recovered them?
9. How did Shanann's phone get in the sofa?
10. What was the content of the texts CW sent in the days leading up to the murders? Will they be made public?

See Colorado’s post here for answers to questions on that were previously on the list: CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #57

I will post the remaining questions in just a bit. MOO

CW "found" the phone rather quickly. I am thinking he hid it there before killing SW so she couldn't call for help I'd she got away from him.

 

[SammiSleuthing]

ok catching up: But CW seriously looked up the song "Battery" by metallica when he was in the process of dumping his little girls bodies in battery oil tanks......I have no words....

I wish I could say these heinous crimes surprised me but they only do in how similar they are.

As soon as I read that, I was instantly reminded of Justin Barber of Florida, also serving life, no parole (the jury recommended death but the judge gave him life, unfortunately, IMO).

He was an absolute (with multiple affairs) in their short marriage and also experiencing huge financial strain. Before murdering his wife, April, he googled a Guns N' Roses song that included this line:

"I used to love her, but I had to kill her. I had to put her six feet under."

These killers are so unbelievably dumb, among many other unsavory characteristics. I have nothing but utter contempt for them and glad they are stupid enough to google.

Google yourself into a life sentence, Einstein. Go right ahead.

 

[BelleIsle]

Anyone who googles "how to react when someone says they love you", well too late for that person given that he's already pushing 35 years on the planet. I know that's not exactly what he googled, but it was something close to that. Anyone remember?

I believe one of the queries was along the lines of "what does it feel like to fall in love". He's empty, a complete shell of a being.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

I definitely no longer pin the story on coaching from the father. After hearing him speak and reading what he says, no way did he come up with that. It's like several have already said, the cops came up with it!!

They did, but he didn't have to go with it. If his dad hadn't been waiting nearby for CW to test it out on who knows what might have happened. His dad is his hero and mentor.

Only his dad [imo] could have [unwittingly] persuaded Chris that this was a viable get out, and his dad was right there! And his dad just folded and swallowed it! From thereon in, that fantasy was GO! with CW.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Thanks, Colorado. I haven't been able to keep up and I’ve still only read the discovery in bits and pieces, but I’ve come across a few more answers (in red).

1. What was the significance of the non-porous bag and the footprint?
2. What did CW do with Shanann's engagement and wedding rings? We know from pg 5 of the discovery docs: “Christopher did come up to me [Officer Coonrod] holding Shanann's wedding ring and stated he found it on the night stand.”
3. What did the dogs alert on? From pg 40: While in the home, a track dog was asked to enter, as there had been some indication from the cadaver dog that a struggle or argument may have ensued. Jeff Hiebert and his K9 entered the home. Jeff stated that his dog showed interest in the unmade bed in the basement and an area just below the stairs, but did not do any final trained alerts. We exited the basement and went upstairs to the garage. No indicators were noted in the garage and we exited the home.
4. Will they ever release the police interview with Chris? Link to 8/15 polygraph and interview: Polygraph and Interview with Christopher Watts 08.15.18
5. What is the history about that doll photo on her FB? Pg 1913 – The doll photo was taken by CW and sent to SW. Pg 537 – Coder asks Chris if Bella did it and he said he didn’t recall. Per CW, Shanann thought it was funny.
6. Was NK the only AP or was there evidence he was out trolling for women (or men) on websites?
7. Was the alleged male AP "TB" for real or was he just inserting himself into the investigation?
8. NK "deleted" texts & FB posts before contacting LE. Do we know if LE recovered them?
9. How did Shanann's phone get in the sofa?
10. What was the content of the texts CW sent in the days leading up to the murders? Will they be made public?

See Colorado’s post here for answers to questions on that were previously on the list: CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #57

I will post the remaining questions in just a bit. MOO

maybe some of the "interest" the dog showed was because of the dog Deeter having been there?

 

[Ultra Violet]

I am hopeful there is less interest because there was no trial. I am also hopeful that there will be less of an interest on her part to do media interviews or a book when she does not have clean hands like Amber Frey. I see definitive lies in her Denver Post article to the public when you compare that to what she said to LE. I believe she lied a lot, but is not complicit in the crimes. Her researching of Amber Frey’s book deal and net worth within a few days of learning of the murders just plain disgusts me. I hope she stays quiet, and we hear nothing from her forever. I think she should feel lucky that they didn’t charge her or her friend with lying to the police, because I think it is fairly obvious they did IMO.

Is it possible that they gave NK some kind of “immunity” in exchange for her coming forward and providing details and in exchange she cannot profit from her involvement? If so, would something like ever come out? Or can things like that be protected information?

The stuffies too. He claimed they must have blown them away. But if wind is strong enough to blow away toys, why was the sheet still there? And garbage bags.

Moo

Could he have kept her ring and the blankets / stuffies as “souveneirs” but then chucked the girl’s items out his truck window or otherwise trashed them once he felt like he could be considered to be a suspect? The ring(s) would be easier to conceal and clearly $$$$ in comparison.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This was hot debate on here about how Bella and CeCe were conceived.

pdf- 583-

Shanann used fertility drugs with both Bella and Cece.

Shanann was not using any fertility drugs when she got pregnant with their third child.

They only 'tried' twice when Shanann got pregnant with their son.

 

[opalonyx]

Its obvious from reading this document that CW was quite peeved about having to help out with the housework.
He complained to several people.
Poor Baby Bates.
I'm sure Mother and his sister must have been appalled at nasty Shanann, pregnant and sick with lupus, asking him to pull his weight around the house and help out with the toddlers.
UGH. moo

That's very interesting. @Trinket78 mentioned him doing housework in their posts. Sounds like he complained to anyone who would listen. As we've seen, CW is a pathological liar so his comments obviously would need to be taken with much more than a grain of salt

 

[mtnlites]

I thought this was pre-meditated to the extent that he had killed his children before Shannan ever returned home, but I have changed my mind about that, due the information revealed in Chris Watts interviews.

There are many things I deeply distrust about his account of what happened, and I still also distrust my own understanding of what happened, but in many murderer's accounts they let slip somethings that are true, or rather there is some sense of truth about them.

There is, for me, a sense of verisimilitude in some details he let slip.

His account during one police interview of Shannan saying "**** off, **** off **** off" [trusting the Webslueths profanity filter here], that sounds real to me if he did indeed tell her he was 'done' at some point after she arrived home.

His remarks about her mascara/make up on her face? That sounds real to me, and of course he might well guess that since they found the pillow cases [because he did not have time to get them out of the house thanks to Nicole U], forensic investigators would find evidence of smeared mascara/eye make up/tears on them.

Him saying he got on the bed above the covers to 'talk' to her in his full work kit sound real to me, because we know he had no injuries that would ordinarily be inflicted by someone being strangled, and she had none that someone whose arms were free would have instinctively inflicted on someone strangling her. He may also have been aware that some fibres from his work clothes or other evidence may have remained on the comforter or whatever bedding was there.

He killed Shannan because she at the very least [whether he told her about NK or not] was absolutely, adamantly not acquiescing to his idiotic peurile 'we are just not connecting anymore' BS, and she certainly was not going to make things easy for him. "**** Off! **** Off! **** OFF!"

Once he had killed Shannan those poor children stood no chance.

Now that you've said this about the mascara/tears, something in the evidence makes sense. It said that "residue" was on the pillowcase, which lends credence to your theory that at least that part of his story has some truth to it.

I agree that he let certain things slip through as he spoke.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet, but it’s pretty clear from the discovery document where the “Shanann killed the kids” scenario came from.

Many of us assumed that he didn’t come up with that scenario on his own, because he’s a bit of a dumbass.

I speculated that it may have come from the conversation with his father.

If you read the transcript of his interview with police, you can see that they used various methods in order to draw a confession from him.

One of those methods was to give him “an out” or a scenario in which he was not fully responsible.

That’s what happened here. He bit.

I can't believe he's never watched the tv series 'The first 48hrs', he would have got lots of information about techniques used to interrogate suspects. The detectives suggest a scenario where he is just a hapless guy that this all just happened to- and BAM!
Mr W is off to the big house!

 

[scdiv]

CW "found" the phone rather quickly. I am thinking he hid it there before killing SW so she couldn't call for help I'd she got away from him.

Page 50 report says CW found the phone:

When Nickole asked where Shanann's phone was, Christopher went to the couch, up stairs, and found it between the cushions. He did not know what the password was to Shanann's phone. Nickole knew it (possible DOB of their unborn son) and turned it on.

Page 1410 says NUA's son Nick was the one who found it:

Once inside they all went upstairs where he (Nick) felt like something “wasn’t right” and began moving the pillows located on the couch at the top of the stairs. It was then he found Shanann’s phone under the pillows. I asked Nick what drove him tothe couch. He said the couch would be the place he would hide something. Nick said he was going to look under the couch, under the beds, and in Bella’s and CeCe’s (Celeste) rooms but the couch was the closest thing to him. I asked Nick to draw the couch and the location of Shanann’s phone in relation the couch. Nick explained what he was drawing as he drew and depicted Shanann’s cell phone near the open end of the couch under a pillow. When asked, Nick said he located the phone under three or four pillows and that is was face up.

Nicole added Shanann’s phone had a clutch on it the prior weekend but that it was no longer on the phone. Nicole described the clutch as being similar to a lanyard and that Shanann put it around her wrist so she wouldn’t drop her phone. It should be noted the clutch (lanyard) was attached to the phone when I recovered it.

Nick announced he located Shanann’s phone and Watts put his hand out and said, “Thanks.” Nick handed the phone to Officer Coonrod who subsequently handed it to Watts. Officer Coonrod asked Watts if he could access the phone to see if Shanann had texted someone and left. Nick said Watts didn’t know, or pretended not to know Shanann’s password at first but eventually accessed it using numbers corresponding to their unborn child’s projected birth date. Nicole said Cassiesuggested (via phone) using the birthdate. Nicole said that both Cassie and Sandi were on speaker phone at one point while they were going through the house.

 

[kiwilaura]

@PommyMommy

7. What was CW doing on the Saturday night before the murders? Did he use a babysitter?
Chris used McKenna Lindstrom (Jeremy Lindstrom's 17 year old daughter). The interview with Nichol Kessinger confirms the use of the babysitter. The best description is on Discovery Page 572. Nichol said they went to dinner at the Lazy Dog. Discovery page 576 confirms they had sex at Nichol's house before and after dinner on the 11th August

 

[liltexans]

Thank you to everyone who is including the discovery page number(s) when they reference something from the discovery documents in their post.

I've been bad about doing that myself, but I really appreciate it and I'm sure other posters do as well. It makes it much easier for all of us to find the full context of what is being mentioned.

 

[NuttMegg]

Was it ever disclosed if the roll of garbage bags in CW's truck matched the 2 found near where he buried SW?

 

[The Farm]

@MassGuy
Hey did you (or anyone else of course) run across anything that said that the Cervi site was scheduled to be closed down, phased out, or something like that? I can't even remember where I read that, someone said it was in the documents and that it would mean that he maybe thought the girls would never be found.

Yes I did read that in the docs and I am only in the 300's somewhere. There were to be discontinued and abandoned and I do believe when they do that they empty the tanks but maybe do not go in them.
When they used the word abandoned I thought that was odd because if that was my land and they no longer were going to be using them I would want them torn down and gone. And they are on private ranch land and the oil company maintains the property and roads leading to them plus pays the rancher land use fees or if the oil is actually pumped out of that land they get royalties, something to do with mineral rights. To me it is all confusing but I was told that when I was out there.
But yes it was in the docs somewhere that they were to be shut down in the future.
P.S. and sorry do not remember the page number but I am only up to 369 so before that somewhere in there!!!!

 

[kiwilaura]

@PommyMommy

8. How did NUA know that SW missed her doctor's appointment? Did she call the office and ask when she never heard back from SW?
"ATKINSON further explained to police that she knew SHANANN was fifteen weeks pregnant and had a scheduled doctor’s appointment at 10:00 A.M. that morning. ATKINSON said she went to SHANANN’s doctor’s office and was informed SHANANN never showed up for her appointment. ATKINSON said she then went over to SHANANN’s residence and tried the keypad on the front door." Discovery Page 552

 

[k-mac]

I would like to reconcile but haven't been able to hopefully someone else might have come across in the doco dump the report with the neighbour seeing him outside alone bbq-ing?

I am of the idea that this was before dark?

and we know he allowed the kids to facetime with shananns parents..but what time?

the girls should have been visible to neighbour imo if they were alive while he was doing this.
he also fed them cold pizza??
we know he loves pizza??? so wasn't he having pizza??...with them??

im of the understanding there wasn't food in the girls stomach.
so either he killed them early and hadn't fed them or it was after he killed shanann imo.

he wouldn't send shanann live time pic of them even though he had done so earlier in day?

sorry im all over the place.
just my ramblings trying to reconcile coming on dark sunday night.