GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

You may be right and he may have used the credit card rather than a gift card (like he had been doing w/NK until that night) because he knew it didn’t matter— SW would be gone. Or he may have run out of gift cards.

She questioned him about the amount of the charge he made on Saturday night but he gave her some bogus excuse and I’m not sure she took the discussion any further since she didn’t want to make waves. she may have pressed the issue when she got home but again she was trying to smooth things over w/him and not argue. I suspect finding out her credit card was declined would have made her even madder if she thought he’d been using it. If they did fight over it I don’t think that’s what made him decide to kill her but it may be what caused it to happen that night.

My gut always told me he planned in advance to kill her that night, but I expected to see more definitive evidence in the discovery docs confirming it. There are things that can be interpreted as proof of pre-planning but I’m now open to the possibility there was something that happened when she got home that night that escalated to murder.

I think he used the CC purposefully so she would find out he was cheating, hoping she would make the decision to end the marriage. He did tell her they were no longer compatible but did not want to discuss why.

 

[mrjitty]

LOL! Absolutely not.

Possibly the bank might have gone for it if they were trading down and using released equity to get the loan back on track

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

IIRC, she is the one that asked about getting some kind of psychological support during one of her interviews. I could have missed something but I didn’t get the impression LE was worried as much as responding to her request.

Agree and for some reason I felt she was asking that to play the part of being a victim of his lies, to back up the lies she was telling them of how little she knew about his marriage and would not have been a willing participant if she had known.

 

[Ultra Violet]

I’m struggling with the position of Shan’ann’s body in the shallow grave. All this time I just subconsciously assumed she was laying on her back in the usual burial position. Instead she was literally just thrown in, face down, bum up. It’s just horrifying.

Snip!

Anyone else wonder if the burial position SW was placed in was in any way similar to the, er, positions NK was googling during the affair? As a final act of disrespect?

Or was it just a running-out-of-time issue? Or the position her body was placed in the truck? Or the way he carried her from the truck? It feels more intentional than incidental...

And sorry for the disturbing image. SW deserved so much better.

 

[katydid23]

That struck me as odd too. CW's claimed SW would just give them whatever they wanted, but by all accounts SW was OCD, planned everything, and was really into a healthy lifestyle.

Wouldn't she have their meals already planned out? And likely they'd be healthy?

I doubt it's of any relevance, but it did stick out to me.

Moo

From looking at her FB pages, she cooked healthy versions of 'comfort' foods.

Just because he said she served them pizza and fries, doesn't mean it was the types we think of. My daughterinlaw makes really health meals, and feeds her 3 yr old home made pizza, that is made with whole what dough from whole foods, fresh veggies, low fat cheese, and homemade tomato sauce.

She also uses the air fryer to make potato fries, with no oils, and they are delicious.

I think SW was probably making healthy versions of these toddler foods.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 543: Excerpts from NK interview

-NICHOL recalled on August 13, 2018 she and CHRIS “facetimed”. During the video call CHRIS was laying on a mattress that did not have sheets on it. NICHOL inquired why the bed in the video call did not have sheets on it and CHRIS told her he had washed the sheets.

-CHRIS also told NICHOL he had to wash his children’s sheets as “they smell”.

-NICHOL said during a phone conversation on Monday August 12, 2018 with CHRIS he was talking about NICKOLE ATKINSON and her son coming to his home and finding SHANANN, BELLA and CELESTE missing and then calling the police. During this conversation CHRIS said he arrived home and ATKINSON came into his home and was running all over the house and up and down the stairs. During this conversation CHRIS said blankets were missing from his kids rooms. NICHOL asked if ATKINSON’s could have taken the blankets and CHRIS responded he believed that SHANANN had taken the blankets.

 

[Ultra Violet]

August 13, 2018

0905 hours- Watts called Ann Meadows (realtor) and held a three minute forty second conversation.

1227 hours - Meadows told Watts, "hi, I'm working on your market analysis - I would like to bring my listing coordinator with me when I bring it. Did you finish the basement? Any other upgrades? (These messages were also found in Shanann's phone, likely sent as a group text by Ann.)

1243 hours - Watts to Meadows : "Basement is still unfinished. No other upgrades"

1303 hours - Meadows to Watts: Suggested a house at 6508 Saratoga* may be viable.

1314 hours - Meadows asked if Watts preferred a three car garage. Watts replied, "3 car garage. I will drive by the 6508 address when I get home."

*6508 Saratoga Trl, Frederick, CO 80516
https://www.trulia.com/p/co/frederick/6508-saratoga-trl-frederick-co-80516--2073647552
Listed for sale June 30. 2018 $620,000 -> Price change July 18, 2018 to $599.900
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks like CW was planning to sell his current house and also asked the realtor to look for another house he can buy. What a guy.

We could double-check with a realtor, but I took this market analysis discussion as the realtor doing homework on comparable properties in their area to help price their home for sale. That is why she asked if the basement was finished or if they had made any upgrades to the home.

He was naturally hoping for higher comps, so I am interpreting his comment about the garage as three car vs two car for a higher relative asking price.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't know how you all have managed to read the material, and read here and post here discussing it. I'm behind on over a thousand posts since I last checked in and I'm only up to page 562 of the discovery with solid reading for about 10 hours yesterday! And my eyeballs are aching today.

That lie detector test and the ensuing interview and his discussion with his dad and then part confession is gold dust for anyone doing a psychological study on him!!! Wow.

I'm actually annoyed that they gave him the get out he tried to use. I think that could have backfired massively if this had gone to trial, because it's one thing trying to make him feel comfortable enough to open up but to actually put a defense to him that he hadn't even thought of yet, well I think they are fortunate that he changed his plea. I nearly fell off my chair when his first words were 'she smothered them, they were smothered.'

So much to glean from that last day he ever spoke about the case. And his interactions with his father are so revealing.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

@Tortoise

Don't worry, you're not alone. I'm still ploughing through it too.

Page 1598 - The very last text Shannan ever sent him ended with the words, 'Love you'.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I’m struggling with the position of Shan’ann’s body in the shallow grave. All this time I just subconsciously assumed she was laying on her back in the usual burial position. Instead she was literally just thrown in, face down, bum up. It’s just horrifying.

Anyone else wonder if the burial position SW was placed in was in any way similar to the, er, positions NK was googling during the affair? As a final act of disrespect?

Or was it just a running-out-of-time issue? Or the position her body was placed in the truck? Or the way he carried her from the truck? It feels more intentional than incidental...

And sorry for the disturbing image. SW deserved so much better.

IMO, it was a “dump her in the grave any-which-way” as fast as possible issue.

One thing that has struck me as I read (I’m going through in page order, not skipping about & am nowhere near the end) is how LITTLE time he ACTUALLY had from leaving home to his coworkers arriving on site.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

Earlier among the documents someone -perhaps Shannan's mum - said that Chris had previously always called Shannan 'honey' or 'babe' but she noticed that he stopped using those terms of endearment to address while in NC, and was calling her 'Shannan'.

In the pathetic 'attempt at cover up' texts Watts sent to Shannan after he killed her, he addresses her as 'honey'.

 

[Inthedetails]

IMO, it was a “dump her in the grave any-which-way” as fast as possible issue.

One thing that has struck me as I read (I’m going through in page order, not skipping about & am nowhere near the end) is how LITTLE time he ACTUALLY had from leaving home to his coworkers arriving on site.

Maybe we need a timeline of his morning, including the phone calls....I'm now seriously wondering if he had SW's grave dug ahead of time?!

jmo

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe we need a timeline of his morning, including the phone calls....I'm now seriously wondering if he had SW's grave dug ahead of time?!

jmo

I also wondered if he would have been able to dig that deep so quickly. I suppose it depends on the ground composition, if it was quite sandy or not.

When one of his coworkers arrived on site she saw him digging a hole - I think it was about one foot wide by two feet deep. I don't know if it was to explain his use of a shovel and the dirt on it that morning, or if it was connected with an actual repair that he was supposed to be doing, or if he was going to put something else in it but ran out of time.

 

[mrjitty]

That lie detector test and the ensuing interview and his discussion with his dad and then part confession is gold dust for anyone doing a psychological study on him!!! Wow.

I'm actually annoyed that they gave him the get out he tried to use. I think that could have backfired massively if this had gone to trial, because it's one thing trying to make him feel comfortable enough to open up but to actually put a defense to him that he hadn't even thought of yet, well I think they are fortunate that he changed his plea. I nearly fell off my chair when his first words were 'she smothered them, they were smothered.

BIB

Practical procedure explains Coder's approach here.

Obviously the golden rule for a suspect under the US system is never to give an interview to the police / FBI in the first place. It can only screw you.

But in these fake missing person cases, accused tend to feel that have to be seen to be cooperating, based on the stupid idea they can throw the police off.

Nevertheless CW could lawyer up at any moment, so getting him to roll over on a murder 1 on the second interview by any legit means is a superb result.

Of course he didn't confess to the girls yet but this is likely also why there is no further interview.

Having confessed to murder, the scope for him to continue "a friendly voluntary chat" with the police is zero. He has to be arrested and warnings will kick in.

So a lawyer was soon on deck and told him to shut his mouth.

 

[k-mac]

Maybe we need a timeline of his morning, including the phone calls....I'm now seriously wondering if he had SW's grave dug ahead of time?!

jmo

somewhere in the police interview (sorry only going off memory)
they question him about whether shanann was supposed to go in the oil tanks too and she didn't fit. which he said yes.
but imo they worded it like he was just going along so cant be sure if his answer was truthful or not.

 

[Tortoise]

Last comment lol before I go back to reading and not commenting. They got him wrong when they suggested he took their toys and blankies to keep them warm and in effect give them love. He took those items because he was setting up a scenario that they wouldn't have gone anywhere outside the house without them. He was totally confused when they were putting those ideas to him.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, it was a “dump her in the grave any-which-way” as fast as possible issue.

One thing that has struck me as I read (I’m going through in page order, not skipping about & am nowhere near the end) is how LITTLE time he ACTUALLY had from leaving home to his coworkers arriving on site.

I think he had a bit of time - as far as I can see Roberts is not there before 8am and asks Watts to go to a different close by site

Watts was likely at the site just after 6am

But I agree the colleagues were arriving soon than he would have wanted

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 693 (not verbatim)

NK had previously consented to a search of her cellular telephone and it was downloaded using XRY software. As a backup and an effort to possibly recover more information I requested that NK allow the CBI to download her phone again using a different software too; Cellebrite. NK consented to another search of her phone and agreed to come to the CBI Office and provide me her phone. NK arranged to transfer her phone service to another phone which she had previously used.

When NK transferred her phone service from her current phone to her older phone (Samsung S5) multiple text messages which she had previously reported as deleted were recovered on her old phone. Attempts were made to download NK’s older telephone using Cellebrite at the CBI. The phone was unable to be downloaded. NK did send me text messages of the recovered texts between her and CW. The recovered messages are from CW’s phone number.

No messages were recovered between NK and CW’s business/Anadarko phone number.

 

[Tortoise]

BIB

Practical procedure explains Coder's approach here.

Obviously the golden rule for a suspect under the US system is never to give an interview to the police / FBI in the first place. It can only screw you.

But in these fake missing person cases, accused tend to feel that have to be seen to be cooperating, based on the stupid idea they can throw the police off.

Nevertheless CW could lawyer up at any moment, so getting him to roll over on a murder 1 on the second interview by any legit means is a superb result.

Of course he didn't confess to the girls yet but this is likely also why there is no further interview.

Having confessed to murder, the scope for him to continue "a friendly voluntary chat" with the police is zero. He has to be arrested and warnings will kick in.

So a lawyer was soon on deck and told him to shut his mouth.

I think there's a possibility it wouldn't have been murder 1 though if he was reacting impulsively in rage and shock at seeing his children being murdered. I might be wrong.

MOO

 

[Tricia]

This is out of Frank Rzucek's interview. Clearly Cindy Watts admitted to Shanann's mother that the nuts thing had happened. I feel really quite cross about this as obviously someone (probably our favourite VI) lied to @Tricia to get the conversation completely shut down (and was successful in doing so):

RZUCEK said that one time when SHANANN took the girls over to CHRIS’ parents’ house, possibly during the 2nd week of her vacation, SHANANN called him and said to get her away from CHRIS’ parents. RZUCEK said that there were nuts all over the house, and some kids were eating ice cream with nuts. SHANANN and CHRIS’ mother had words, and the mother told her it was a 'training lesson'. - Discovery Page 678

I know the TOS exists to protect members and VI's and I will abide by that, but IMO, this VI doesn't deserve that courtesy.

Hi kiwilaura,

You are right. Websleuths ( me ) can receive bad information from someone who is close to the case but is not a member of Websleuths or we can receive bad information from a VI that I have verified. If I decide a source is being sincere and truthful I release the info on the forum. It is always up to you to believe or not to believe when I post the information. Same with the VI. It is up to you whether to believe or not believe what the VI posts.
There was no way to find out exactly what their intentions are when they talk with me or post.

In the story about the nuts/ice cream would it surprise you if people on the Watts side, and I am talking family and close friends, can convince themselves that a story is true when it is anything but?
Using Verified members or sources very close to a case can be risky but don't you feel the risk is worth it? I do. Even if that means we are lied to at times.

As far as me shutting down the nuts/ice cream discussion, to be honest, it was driving the mods and me nuts (no pun intended) because it was so repetitive and we received so many alerts from both sides arguing about this story. I mean alerts every few seconds. When a source very close to the situation told me how it all went down I chose to believe that person because they sounded sincere. With a very sincere and (what I thought at the time) truthful explanation, add to the fact that everyone was going 'round and 'round and alerting non-stop and absolutely nothing was being accomplished I felt it was the right decision at the time.

Please know that I take Verified members or sources close to an investigation very seriously but there are times when I will make the wrong decision. Please accept my sincere apology and I will do my best to make sure every Verified member or inside source is held up to the high standards you have come to expect from Websleuths.
Take Care,
Tricia
PS. I reserve the right to change this whole post because it is 5:19 AM and I literally started this post at 7:00 pm. No, I wasn't taking hours to choose my words ever so carefully, I had 38 gazillion different interruptions. None bad or stressful but these interruptions did take my time. As of right now if I looked in the mirror I would see an outline of myself. I am fading fast...what was I saying? I don't know. Good night.