GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[mrjitty]

I think there's a possibility it wouldn't have been murder 1 though if he was reacting impulsively in rage and shock at seeing his children being murdered. I might be wrong.

MOO

True but from Coder's point of view, the game in town is to get him to fold up to a murder on the spot without his lawyers around because such an admission will likely be incredibly damaging at trial.

The alternative is that Watts has months to invent his story

 

[Tortoise]

True but from Coder's point of view, the game in town is to get him to fold up to a murder on the spot without his lawyers around because such an admission will likely be incredibly damaging at trial.

The alternative is that Watts has months to invent his story

And I'd like to add to my previous comments that the repercussions of Shan'ann being falsely accused of murdering her children would have been enormous and ever lasting. I think it was highly irresponsible to give that to a person like CW, a family annihilator, he may have been released back into the community at some point, but maybe I will come to view it differently in time.

 

[mrjitty]

I think he had a bit of time - as far as I can see Roberts is not there before 8am and asks Watts to go to a different close by site

Watts was likely at the site just after 6am

But I agree the colleagues were arriving soon than he would have wanted

Actually looking at this, he got up at 4am yet did not leave him until sometime before 6 and was on site at 319 just before 7 according to the GPS info

But it still looks like he had at least a couple of hours.

ETA:

Or maybe not?

MCCOY, PARRISH, and MCNEIL arrived at Cervi 319 around 7:15-7:30

 

[spangled]

I just did a full search of the document and can’t find anything to that effect.

It must have come from somewhere else.

I saw it in the document... No idea where now

 

[JudgeJudi]

Page 2015

0724 hours: Sara Nudd {friend} asked Shanann if they were doing any better. Shanann replied, "No! It's so bad and I don’t know what to do. He told me he doesn't want this baby and he's happy with just Bella and Celeste. He thought he wanted another one. I'm so sick to my stomach. Tried to have sex with him last night just to see if that would help him and he rejected me." Shanann said she hasn't cried this hard ever.

Shanann added, "He said he feels there's lack of communication and it's not from me. I sent him 12 text over the month begging him to talk to me. He fell asleep at 7/8 pm." Shanann told Sara, "I tried talking to him after rejection last night and me crying for an hour alone on couch - he slept. I kicked his sorry out of bed and I refuse to sleep on couch anymore this week. Told him this morning to not come home today if he can't tell me the damn truth on what the hell is wrong!"

No words … again. I think we're all going to need some counselling by the time we're finished here.

 

[Tortoise]

I saw it in the document... No idea where now

I remember it too. I don't think it referred to that site specifically but the implication was it would have included that site because it related to all the older sites.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Actually looking at this, he got up at 4am yet did not leave him until sometime before 6 and was on site at 319 just before 7 according to the GPS info

But it still looks like he had at least a couple of hours.

ETA:

Or maybe not?

MCCOY, PARRISH, and MCNEIL arrived at Cervi 319 around 7:15-7:30

I’ll have to go back & X-reference all the timings, but from memory I have him with less than 2 hours on site alone to dump Bella & Celeste in the tanks (which probably didn’t take long) and bury Shanann (which I think would take much longer).

While I’ve never dug a grave, I have dug trenches etc when gardening (amongst other things) and it’s hard physical work & can take a while. IMO, if you add in that he couldn’t know for sure exactly what time the co-workers would turn up, he cut it very fine (or he just didn’t think about that).

 

[Jennifer17]

Page 2015

0724 hours: Sara Nudd {friend} asked Shanann if they were doing any better. Shanann replied, "No! It's so bad and I don’t know what to do. He told me he doesn't want this baby and he's happy with just Bella and Celeste. He thought he wanted another one. I'm so sick to my stomach. Tried to have sex with him last night just to see if that would help him and he rejected me." Shanann said she hasn't cried this hard ever.

Shanann added, "He said he feels there's lack of communication and it's not from me. I sent him 12 text over the month begging him to talk to me. He fell asleep at 7/8 pm." Shanann told Sara, "I tried talking to him after rejection last night and me crying for an hour alone on couch - he slept. I kicked his sorry out of bed and I refuse to sleep on couch anymore this week. Told him this morning to not come home today if he can't tell me the damn truth on what the hell is wrong!"

No words … again. I think we're all going to need some counselling by the time we're finished here.

What a spineless coward. He could not come out and tell her, just did the sulking and no talking.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Hi kiwilaura,

You are right. Websleuths ( me ) can receive bad information from someone who is close to the case but is not a member of Websleuths or we can receive bad information from a VI that I have verified. If I decide a source is being sincere and truthful I release the info on the forum. It is always up to you to believe or not to believe when I post the information. Same with the VI. It is up to you whether to believe or not believe what the VI posts.
There was no way to find out exactly what their intentions are when they talk with me or post.

In the story about the nuts/ice cream would it surprise you if people on the Watts side, and I am talking family and close friends, can convince themselves that a story is true when it is anything but?
Using Verified members or sources very close to a case can be risky but don't you feel the risk is worth it? I do. Even if that means we are lied to at times.

As far as me shutting down the nuts/ice cream discussion, to be honest, it was driving the mods and me nuts (no pun intended) because it was so repetitive and we received so many alerts from both sides arguing about this story. I mean alerts every few seconds. When a source very close to the situation told me how it all went down I chose to believe that person because they sounded sincere. With a very sincere and (what I thought at the time) truthful explanation, add to the fact that everyone was going 'round and 'round and alerting non-stop and absolutely nothing was being accomplished I felt it was the right decision at the time.

Please know that I take Verified members or sources close to an investigation very seriously but there are times when I will make the wrong decision. Please accept my sincere apology and I will do my best to make sure every Verified member or inside source is held up to the high standards you have come to expect from Websleuths.
Take Care,
Tricia
PS. I reserve the right to change this whole post because it is 5:19 AM and I literally started this post at 7:00 pm. No, I wasn't taking hours to choose my words ever so carefully, I had 38 gazillion different interruptions. None bad or stressful but these interruptions did take my time. As of right now if I looked in the mirror I would see an outline of myself. I am fading fast...what was I saying? I don't know. Good night.

I love this site! I think it is so wise to close threads down, to encourage fresh conversations. The VI providing incorrect information - there is no way to positively know. I am curious as to what their motive was for doing so. It all comes out in the wash, although it may take a few more cycles for some info to “come clean”. We appreciate all your efforts.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

I also wondered if he would have been able to dig that deep so quickly. I suppose it depends on the ground composition, if it was quite sandy or not.

When one of his coworkers arrived on site she saw him digging a hole - I think it was about one foot wide by two feet deep. I don't know if it was to explain his use of a shovel and the dirt on it that morning, or if it was connected with an actual repair that he was supposed to be doing, or if he was going to put something else in it but ran out of time.

It was sandy soil - noted in the autopsy of Shannan.

The small hole - IIRC there was another work colleague of Chris's who thought that was suspicious in light of later events. He went back and checked that hole. It was a field toilet.

He told someone present that he was there looking for a wrench he had lost. This was all recorded by the other worker present and reported to LE. You will come across it at some point in the discovery docs.

This is all from memory..

 

[mrjitty]

I’ll have to go back & X-reference all the timings, but from memory I have him with less than 2 hours on site alone to dump Bella & Celeste in the tanks (which probably didn’t take long) and bury Shanann (which I think would take much longer).

While I’ve never dug a grave, I have dug trenches etc when gardening (amongst other things) and it’s hard physical work & can take a while. IMO, if you add in that he couldn’t know for sure exactly what time the co-workers would turn up, he cut it very fine (or he just didn’t think about that).

Yes - From the phone records it seems like he has 2 hours but his interview makes it more like 30-45 mins

would be good to x reference - are the statements from MCCOY, PARRISH, and MCNEIL?

I've dug a lot of drainage trenches and the top layer is the hardest with grass and roots in normal soil.

I think i could dig that hole in 30 mins in sandy soil with little vegetation - it is not very deep

 

[JudgeJudi]

As Bella was a notoriously light sleeper and had in the past woken at 3:00, I'd be surprised if Shan'ann actually went into either of the girls' bedrooms.

Despite her saying she wouldn't sleep on the lounge anymore in her call, if she was very upset when she arrived home that night I think it's quite possible that she may well have slept there and that's why her phone was found either between the two cushions or on top of them.

 

[Sjm_qc]

It was sandy soil - noted in the autopsy of Shannan.

The small hole - IIRC there was another work colleague of Chris's who thought that was suspicious in late of later events. He went back and checked that hole. It was a field toilet.

He told someone present that he was there looking for a wrench he had lost. This was all recorded by the other worker present and reported to LE. You will come across it at some point in the discovery docs.

This is all from memory..

The small hole CW was seen digging and the field “toilet” are two separate events.

The “looking for a missing wrench” was the co-worker giving an excuse to a contractor as to why he went back to the site (coworker didn’t want to mention the case at the time).

 

[The Farm]

Page 1,924

“Between 0148 hours and 0423 hours there was no movement detected on the main floor of the home [Vivint]”

Good Morning,

Trying to read back on the post from last night never mind the docs, it is going to take me a year and a day to do that because I just can not sit here all day and night!!! Plus I have a really bad back giving me issues and an extremely sick cat that I have been back and forth to the vet with. UGH.
Anyway this caught my attention this morning as I am nowhere near page 1924. So this tells us it all went down in a matter of somewhat a little over 2 hours and that CW stayed upstairs that whole time, killing and bagging up his family.
I just can't.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Yes - From the phone records it seems like he has 2 hours but his interview makes it more like 30-45 mins

would be good to x reference - are the statements from MCCOY, PARRISH, and MCNEIL?

I've dug a lot of drainage trenches and the top layer is the hardest with grass and roots in normal soil.

I think i could dig that hole in 30 mins in sandy soil with little vegetation - it is not very deep

From memory: phone records, GPS (possibly) & the statements from those you mention.

I could very well be wrong about time & effort needed to dig the grave.

I’m still reading through for an overview. Will go back & do some X-referencing later - I do believe (from what others have posted) that there’s a timeline towards the end of the documents.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Did the girls wore nightgownes, when they were found? This would indicate, that they at least were put to bed prior their murder. But I can not remember the description of their clothes.

Page 606
SA CODER asked CHRIS what the girls were wearing and he said they were wearing nightgowns. CHRIS said CECE was wearing a pink nightgown with birds on it and BELLA’s nightgown had a unicorn or “believe” on it.

Page 622
The second autopsy performed was on 4-year-old, BELLA. BELLA was dressed in a pink nightgown
covered in butterflies and a pair of underwear.

Page 623
The final autopsy performed was on3-year-old, CELESTE. CELESTE was dressed in a pink nightgown, Minnie Mouse underwear, and a pull-up.

 

[Nellie Nelson]

The small hole CW was seen digging and the field “toilet” are two separate events.

The “looking for a missing wrench” was the co-worker giving an excuse to a contractor as to why he went back to the site (coworker didn’t want to mention the case at the time).

Oh, thanks for the correction re the number of holes! Do you know if LE checked out the 'other' hole then?

Obvs wrench guy was using a 'lost wrench' as an excuse to go back and perform his own bit of sleuthing. He admitted this to LE himself. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes - From the phone records it seems like he has 2 hours but his interview makes it more like 30-45 mins

would be good to x reference - are the statements from MCCOY, PARRISH, and MCNEIL?

I've dug a lot of drainage trenches and the top layer is the hardest with grass and roots in normal soil.

I think i could dig that hole in 30 mins in sandy soil with little vegetation - it is not very deep

On one of the very old threads someone posted that the ground is very hard and as time was of the essence, that's why the grave was so shallow. IIRC a simple shovel would be extremely difficult to use there.

 

[The Saint]

August 13, 2018

0905 hours- Watts called Ann Meadows (realtor) and held a three minute forty second conversation.

1227 hours - Meadows told Watts, "hi, I'm working on your market analysis - I would like to bring my listing coordinator with me when I bring it. Did you finish the basement? Any other upgrades? (These messages were also found in Shanann's phone, likely sent as a group text by Ann.)

1243 hours - Watts to Meadows : "Basement is still unfinished. No other upgrades"

1303 hours - Meadows to Watts: Suggested a house at 6508 Saratoga* may be viable.

1314 hours - Meadows asked if Watts preferred a three car garage. Watts replied, "3 car garage. I will drive by the 6508 address when I get home."

*6508 Saratoga Trl, Frederick, CO 80516
https://www.trulia.com/p/co/frederick/6508-saratoga-trl-frederick-co-80516--2073647552
Listed for sale June 30. 2018 $620,000 -> Price change July 18, 2018 to $599.900
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks like CW was planning to sell his current house and also asked the realtor to look for another house he can buy. What a guy.

There is evidence in the report that Shanann had texted the broker too and they discussed good areas for them to look for a smaller home. So the Watts really were taking steps to sell their home in Frederick and downsize to a smaller one in Brighton(?), CO.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Oh, thanks for the correction re the number of holes! Do you know if LE checked out the 'other' hole then?

Obvs wrench guy was using a 'lost wrench' as an excuse to go back and perform his own bit of sleuthing. He admitted this to LE himself. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

No worries .

I don’t recall offhand regarding your first paragraph, & don’t have time right now to go back & look. I’m babysitting my gd today and she’s arriving in a few minutes.