GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[KarenUK]

That I am not sure of Tortoise, I just remember 8 inches and maybe assumed that the depth.
This whole thing is so mind boggling and so hard to remember because of the different statements etc.

I read somewhere in the document that the soil was 8 inches above her buttock, but I can't remember the page (I was reading it with a glass of wine as it seemed the only sensible way to get through it without feeling like I needed to have a bath in bleach, so I might be mis-remembering!)

 

[esayer]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: CW was stunted mentally. This affair is more like a first love, not an affair in your 30s. CW never had this experience before, but it's so important in human development: That first soul-crushing all encompassing obsessive first love. We, as adults, know how this inevitably ends: Heartbreak and disaster. But CW did not know this. He thought in his head he and NK were gonna live happily ever after.

But we know what would have happened, if he hadn't murdered his family; he gets a divorce and dates NK, a ton of drama and eventual break up, and maybe CW would have killed NK, if she didn't go along with his weird fantasy for them.

CWs main concern is what others think of him. He's very worried about his image. He was so worried that Shanann and his children would think less of him for having an affair, he thought it would be better to kill them than come clean. He is so naive and young. If he only would have thought of the reality of his relationship with NK, realized it would be an ultimately futile thing. That he would regret. If he only would have been more mature, to know everyone has financial struggles sometimes, and they aren't the end of the world.

If he only would have thought of others at least sometimes, instead of needing to have fawning women around him at all times, constantly telling him how amazing he is, and if they dare say anything critical, even his children, well, he'll show them.

 

[MsBetsy]

I didn’t realize it was a family member, of course, what they have done from day 1

Sorry, which was a family member who took the heat off? Trying to follow but don't know what prior post was in reference to. Is it about the attempts to point the finger at Shanann? By using the internet?

 

[Tortoise]

Then, later that night 7:00 Mr Watts asked by text if he could facetime w/the girls. That never happened (alledgedly because Bella might tell SW and she would go ballistic). That was around the same time SW asked Chris to send her pictures of the girls and he sent her pictures from earlier in the day.

I too go back and forth on who he snuffed out first, but still lean towards kids first.

On the other hand,

I don’t believe SW wore a bra to bed in PHX, NUA tells me the shirt she was found in is the one she was wearing on the plane ride home and SW never removed her makeup. If she was awake enough to order hair products as OCD as she was it’s unlikely she’d abandon her pre-bed routine. Which IMO points to her being awake when she was killed. I hate the thought, but perhaps CW acted like he that to make love, got her in bed w/her pants off then straddled her and strangled her. For him to have killed the girls first in that scenario she would have bad to have limited her check on the girls to peeking in their room and looking at the baby monitor.

There’s also the report that SW’s credit card was declined when she tried to order hair products online after 2:00 in the morning. Could have caused her to challenge him about his recent credit card charges— and he decided ok, tonight is the night.

And I’m right back on the other side of the fence again. Can’t explain why, but I really want to know the order and hate that we probably never will.

Did the baby monitors have audio? I think it likely, in which case if Shan'ann was alive at 2:30am trying to make an online purchase, with the girls' asthma problems, she is likely to have had ears out to her daughters' normal breathing sounds without even trying. If she was in bed and not on the couch.

I think she was likely in bed from the point of view of CW saying he killed her in Cece's room but definitely put her back in her own bed afterwards. Also his description of being dressed for work and then sitting on top of the covers to wake up Shan'ann seems very vivid to me, even though we know the waking her up part was almost surely a lie. His description of Shan'ann lying on her right side is the description that fits with the ambush strangulation during sleep, with no defensive injuries, pinned down underneath the bedding, and not with the alleged conversation they had. She would be unlikely to be lying down with her head on her pillow facing towards the nightstand, if she was talking to him about any problems.

 

[MsBetsy]

I read somewhere in the document that the soil was 8 inches above her buttock, but I can't remember the page (I was reading it with a glass of wine as it seemed the only sensible way to get through it without feeling like I needed to have a bath in bleach, so I might be mis-remembering!)

I read the same thing. That was shallower part but the rest wasn't much deeper. I think I saw it at the beginning of the autopsy section.

 

[mrjitty]

This crime just reinforces how stupid these kinds of killers are

The smart ones kill strangers and plan it out.

The dumb ones start off on their family, girlfriends, associates etc

I think it is the combination of mind crashing stupidity and banality which makes it so evil.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Would anyone be able to link me to these documents please ? I’m reading what is there from your posts, thanks ! But would like to read the actual docs, tia.

 

[mrjitty]

I read the same thing. That was shallower part but the rest wasn't much deeper. I think I saw it at the beginning of the autopsy section.

Yes - that was I read as well

So maybe the whole grave was 20 inches deep?

 

[Tortoise]

Yes but in which case the grave was less than 2 feet deep

Do you think? With her knees underneath her and a pregnancy belly? I'm thinking 2-3 feet, but that's without doing an experiment. No one here at the mo to measure me.

 

[Tortoise]

Would anyone be able to link me to these documents please ? I’m reading what is there from your posts, thanks ! But would like to read the actual docs, tia.

18CR2003-Discovery-REDACTED-FINAL.pdf

 

[mrjitty]

Did the baby monitors have audio? I think it likely, in which case if Shan'ann was alive at 2:30am trying to make an online purchase, with the girls' asthma problems, she is likely to have had ears out to her daughters' normal breathing sounds without even trying. If she was in bed and not on the couch.

I think she was likely in bed from the point of view of CW saying he killed her in Cece's room but definitely put her back in her own bed afterwards. Also his description of being dressed for work and then sitting on top of the covers to wake up Shan'ann seems very vivid to me, even though we know the waking her up part was almost surely a lie. His description of Shan'ann lying on her right side is the description that fits with the ambush strangulation during sleep, with no defensive injuries, pinned down underneath the bedding, and not with the alleged conversation they had. She would be unlikely to be lying down with her head on her pillow facing towards the nightstand, if she was talking to him about any problems.

I think the "emotional conversation" (strange choice of words) describes that he felt emotion ----> rage and maybe elation.

There was no actual conversation.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you think? With her knees underneath her and a pregnancy belly? I'm thinking 2-3 feet, but that's without doing an experiment. No one here at the mo to measure me.

I measure my own depth as 12 inches approx.

I don't have though!

 

[sun16]

August 13, 2018

0905 hours- Watts called Ann Meadows (realtor) and held a three minute forty second conversation.

1227 hours - Meadows told Watts, "hi, I'm working on your market analysis - I would like to bring my listing coordinator with me when I bring it. Did you finish the basement? Any other upgrades? (These messages were also found in Shanann's phone, likely sent as a group text by Ann.)

1243 hours - Watts to Meadows : "Basement is still unfinished. No other upgrades"

1303 hours - Meadows to Watts: Suggested a house at 6508 Saratoga* may be viable.

1314 hours - Meadows asked if Watts preferred a three car garage. Watts replied, "3 car garage. I will drive by the 6508 address when I get home."

*6508 Saratoga Trl, Frederick, CO 80516
https://www.trulia.com/p/co/frederick/6508-saratoga-trl-frederick-co-80516--2073647552
Listed for sale June 30. 2018 $620,000 -> Price change July 18, 2018 to $599.900
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks like CW was planning to sell his current house and also asked the realtor to look for another house he can buy. What a guy.

Yet this other house is $600k+! He/They couldn’t afford that. They were and kept living beyond their means. This is why they were constantly in financial trouble.

 

[Mellowmelly]

18CR2003-Discovery-REDACTED-FINAL.pdf

Thank you Tortoise !

 

[Mellowmelly]

I’m sorry to be a pain but the docs are showing really small, is there anyway I can make them bigger please ?

 

[MsBetsy]

The motive was simple. Their loved one was being charged with murder and they needed to make the victim the enemy to take the heat off their family member.

I read in another thread about a case that was not current, but there was a forum here at some point. From what I understand the mother of the suspect or someone involved was a VI and tried to influence people. I don't remember the details, but she was anonymous and later it was found out to be her. I'm not implying CW's mom did that, however. I don't think that's the case. Obviously we all know how the family felt from the start and the steps they took to influence the public. Chris barely had any friends, and even the 2 we heard about barely knew anything about him or Shannon. In my opinion when the DA referred to the rumors hurting the investigation, it is the family who is responsible for that, and all the people who were willing to spread the malicious rumors and speculation that the person most likely to murder her children was Shanann. Imo

 

[Tiny]

Hi all. I am behind in the discussion, but oh my goodness... Just when I think that it can’t get more heartbreaking, more tragic and more sad, then the open documents arrive. Shanann was such a mummy bear, protective of her children and wanted the best for Chris. She gave him so much confidence. My mouth was ajar reading Sandy’s letter. The Rzuceks sound an amazing family and Shan’ann was the product of that.I haven’t got anything else to add other than they will always be in my prayers and will never forget this case.
As always thank you so much Tricia and the mods for allowing to have a place to discuss this.

 

[Mercedes]

Late last night I was reading a summary of LE and Watts’
Interview and the polygraph here on websleuths and fell asleep. I guess I had too much Thanksgiving because I can’t find it now. Can anyone give me a hint where I can find it?
Thank you very much.

 

[jayjay54]

I’ll have to go back & X-reference all the timings, but from memory I have him with less than 2 hours on site alone to dump Bella & Celeste in the tanks (which probably didn’t take long) and bury Shanann (which I think would take much longer).

While I’ve never dug a grave, I have dug trenches etc when gardening (amongst other things) and it’s hard physical work & can take a while. IMO, if you add in that he couldn’t know for sure exactly what time the co-workers would turn up, he cut it very fine (or he just didn’t think about that).

Wasn't there some mention very early on of a fancy powered digging machine which he had in the pick-up (or maybe the garage). It sounded like it would make short work of a suitable hole in the soil.

 

[Tortoise]

I’m sorry to be a pain but the docs are showing really small, is there anyway I can make them bigger please ?

If you hover your mouse over the page a black box should show up at the bottom of the page with + and - signs to zoom in or out.