GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Tortoise]

What an animal he is. Used his boot. I’d like to put my boot up his ***!

Wasn't it barefoot prints they took? Yes, I'm sure I saw a big toe print in the documents.

 

[Layla123]

Keep an eye out for her PlayBoy centerfold issue.

That would be so sad.

 

[Gardener1850]

NK did go back several times to tell them everything she could remember. I don’t think she intended to deceive them. When she walked in there she hated CW and never wanted to see him again. I don’t see why she would lie. For example, I think it’s possible to do both, have sex with a guy and tell him to work on his marriage.

RSABBM: I disagree. Unless we later find out that she was secretly a paid escort/prostitute and her seeing CW was only a business arrangement in her mind, she was having a relationship with him. She was researching wedding dresses. She was telling her friend that she wished he didn't have kids (this indicates to me that she really liked him and was weighing whether the relationship was worth putting up with his having kids from a previous marriage). She thought this was going somewhere. Why would she tell him to work on his marriage to SW? Unless by "work on your marriage" she really meant she told him "work on ending that marriage as quickly as you can"... She is 30 years old, not a horny teen who has never had a relationship and "just couldn't figure out how to stop sleeping with the married man." I don't care how good the sex is-- it is not a drug she couldn't refuse. She made the choice to keep seeing him and for that reason I doubt very much she told CW he should stay married and try to work things out with SW for the sake of his kids. That doesn't square with her texts, her photos she sent him and her talking to him on the phone constantly and seeing him 4-5 nights a week.

Again, I don't think NK had knowledge CW planned to murder his family. I don't think she helped him do it. But she doesn't get a pass on her lies and on knowingly having an affair with a married man with kids. I hope she doesn't do any kind of book deal and I hope she decides to quietly move on with her life and get counseling if she needs it. This could have ended badly for her too had he gotten away with disappearing his first family. I hope she realizes that. That is the only matter on which she has my sympathy-- as she must be horrified. I'm not seeing her in black and white terms only but I don't see her as any kind of hero either. She did cooperate but the DA indicated she had only been "mostly forthcoming".

She did things like refuse to tell the last name of her "house guest" named Jim. Who does that while talking to police in a murder investigation? What else was she hiding? We may never know and I'm not really interested in digging up more dirt on her. On the other hand, she is no paragon of virtue IMO for speaking with the police multiple times and being willing to testify against CW-- what choice did she really have about that anyway? They had evidence of her affair that didn't come from her (An employee contacted police and said he discovered emails between NK and CW on the company server). They could have gotten her phone records with a warrant without her permission. It was all going to be there for the detectives to read. She knew she had to come mostly clean about the affair. Of course she would paint herself in the best light possible. IMO the part about telling CW to work on his marriage was an attempt to salvage her image and nothing more. JMO.

 

[Layla123]

Of course she will, she’s going to need the money since nobody will employ her.

I read somewhere that she is thinking about changing her name.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I swear in the report it says she had a 51 minute phone conversation with CW at some point, was that the 13th or 14th?

NK’s Verizon phone records begin on PDF page 1003, Discovery page 1120.

 

[cattlekate]

In one of the early days of the investigation Sandy Rzucek phoned the police to let them know that CW and Shannan had a family court date coming up. I don't think I've seen discussion here about that, does anyone know what it was about?

What Discovery page is this on? I’m curious why Sandra would say that, since the court date is Weld County Civil Court for the HOA lawsuit.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I read somewhere that she is thinking about changing her name.

PDF page 618, Discovery page 697

During the meeting with NICHOL, CBI Victim Advocate HAZEL HECKERS spoke with NICHOL for a short period of time. After this conversation NICHOL inquired with me about how to change her name. I gave her cursory informationon how to do so.

NICHOL apologized for deleting the text messages and phone log between she and WATTS. She admits to being very worried about the information being lost. I spoke with NICHOL about her deleting the messages and told her there are no criminal charges against her.

 

[Layla123]

RSABBM: I disagree. Unless we later find out that she was secretly a paid escort/prostitute and her seeing CW was only a business arrangement in her mind, she was having a relationship with him. She was researching wedding dresses. She was telling her friend that she wished he didn't have kids (this indicates to me that she really liked him and was weighing whether the relationship was worth putting up with his having kids from a previous marriage). She thought this was going somewhere. Why would she tell him to work on his marriage to SW? Unless by "work on your marriage" she really meant she told him "work on ending that marriage as quickly as you can"... She is 30 years old, not a horny teen who has never had a relationship and "just couldn't figure out how to stop sleeping with the married man." I don't care how good the sex is-- it is not a drug she couldn't refuse. She made the choice to keep seeing him and for that reason I doubt very much she told CW he should stay married and try to work things out with SW for the sake of his kids. That doesn't square with her texts, her photos she sent him and her talking to him on the phone constantly and seeing him 4-5 nights a week.

Again, I don't think NK had knowledge CW planned to murder his family. I don't think she helped him do it. But she doesn't get a pass on her lies and on knowingly having an affair with a married man with kids. I hope she doesn't do any kind of book deal and I hope she decides to quietly move on with her life and get counseling if she needs it. This could have ended badly for her too had he gotten away with disappearing his first family. I hope she realizes that. That is the only matter on which she has my sympathy-- as she must be horrified. I'm not seeing her in black and white terms only but I don't see her as any kind of hero either. She did cooperate but the DA indicated she had only been "mostly forthcoming".

She did things like refuse to tell the last name of her "house guest" named Jim. Who does that while talking to police in a murder investigation? What else was she hiding? We may never know and I'm not really interested in digging up more dirt on her. On the other hand, she is no paragon of virtue IMO for speaking with the police multiple times and being willing to testify against CW-- what choice did she really have about that anyway? They had evidence of her affair that didn't come from her (An employee contacted police and said he discovered emails between NK and CW on the company server). They could have gotten her phone records with a warrant without her permission. It was all going to be there for the detectives to read. She knew she had to come mostly clean about the affair. Of course she would paint herself in the best light possible. IMO the part about telling CW to work on his marriage was an attempt to salvage her image and nothing more. JMO.

I do respect your opinion, but I think CW is so toxic, anyone he came into contact with him suffered life changing, collateral damage. I can’t help but feel compassion for NK. No, I don’t condone adultery, and her character is certainly spotty, but millions of people commit adultery every day, and it doesn’t turn into this.

 

[Tortoise]

What Discovery page is this on? I’m curious why Sandra would say that, since the court date is Weld County Civil Court for the HOA lawsuit.

I didn't make a note of it. I think it's within the first 300 pages if that's any help.

 

[jayjay54]

agree. the side comments in an official report were weird and unnecessary. Made it seem very unprofessional.

We don't know all of the goings-on that occurred in relation NK from LE's and DA's perspective. Clearly they observed/experienced enough to be very concerned. There may be more information to come. Their intention in releasing seemingly irrelevant information may be to prompt NK and/or others to provide further information. Wonder what "Jim" thinks about it all.

 

[DexterMorgan]

PDF page 618, Discovery page 697

During the meeting with NICHOL, CBI Victim Advocate HAZEL HECKERS spoke with NICHOL for a short period of time. After this conversation NICHOL inquired with me about how to change her name. I gave her cursory informationon how to do so.

NICHOL apologized for deleting the text messages and phone log between she and WATTS. She admits to being very worried about the information being lost. I spoke with NICHOL about her deleting the messages and told her there are no criminal charges against her.

Was that before googling Amber Frey and book deals?

 

[Ellamental]

NK’s Verizon phone records begin on PDF page 1003, Discovery page 1120.

I haven't made it through the PDF/Discovery doc so apologies for not seeing this and/or if this has already been discussed - but is it odd that Verizon doesn't list out pictures that are sent/received on the account? The invoice pages are numbered and in order so it doesn't appear as though they are missing. I've only ever used AT & T and T-Mobile, but both list this information within the bill. I just wonder if there's anything of interest that we don't get to see because they aren't listed (we KNOW NK sent pictures to CW).... JMHO/MOO

 

[compass]

If anyone drove him to do it they have to take part of their driving him to do it, because ...well.... we don't like her.
Those people would not have liked anyone their son married. He was supposed to have had no relationships before Shanann. I have to wonder how many of them they nipped in the bud?

Exactly!

 

[DexterMorgan]

I do respect your opinion, but I think CW is so toxic, anyone he came into contact with him suffered life changing, collateral damage. I can’t help but feel compassion for NK. No, I don’t condone adultery, and her character is certainly spotty, but millions of people commit adultery every day, and it doesn’t turn into this.

Agree. She was just caught up in the moment like plenty of people are when with a new fling.

If it wasn't her then it would have been someone else during those free 5 weeks that CW had.

 

[Gardener1850]

I do respect your opinion, but I think CW is so toxic, anyone he came into contact with him suffered life changing, collateral damage. I can’t help but feel compassion for NK. No, I don’t condone adultery, and her character is certainly spotty, but millions of people commit adultery every day, and it doesn’t turn into this.

Fair enough and I agree the CW is the truly evil one here. I admit had more sympathy for NK before reading the discovery documents. Her glee in which she took part in the affair is in sharp contrast to the anguish and confusion SW was going through while CW cut off communication. Majority of my compassion is reserved for the murder victims and their family members who loved them. I wouldn't call NK names or anything bad if I met her in person but she's not anyone I would like to have as a friend either. I hope she gets professional help.

 

[celticthyme]

You don't think there was a sociopathic component to these murders? He just went from doting dad to being done with the 'family thing', snuff out their lives and stand up the same day smiling?

MOO

Oh yes I do think that he was a sociopath. I'm an RN, and not a Psych nurse, but if he were in his "right mind," he wouldn't have been capable of the cold blooded killing of his family, and think he'd somehow get away with it. He was way over the edge here.

 

[Deleted member 122964]

Let me begin by saying my following words are NOT DEFENDING CW or NK. I am just thinking about how everything came to this point.

After reading much of the Discovery document, I've concluded that CW acted out of weakness, fear, selfishness, and greed. To clarify, I think the decision to kill his wife and children because he was too weak and too fearful of what a divorce would entail. A weak man chooses to kill rather than face the upheaval of a divorce; he did not have the fortitude to face friends and family and his own children with his decision to leave. He would rather erase his wife and children--eliminating what he views as the obstacle to his new life and posing himself as a victim--a husband wronged by a wife who outrageously skipped town with his beloved children. With the false story of SW skipping town, others could look at him with sympathy. Had he divorced, he would have looked like the "bad guy."

Furthermore, I think he was fearful of having enough money to maintain the lifestyle he wanted with NK. I believe this also compelled him to choose murder rather than divorce. I believe he thought about the financial burdens associated with divorce--legal bills and child support payments--and he thought murder would be a way to simply do away with this and get money from their life insurance policies.

I do believe that he and NK were in the early stages of love/infatuation. I do believe that he would have dated her for a long time and perhaps even married her if he had simply divorced SW. It is so terribly sad. He and NK could have had a life together, and SW could have had the potential to find a new love of her own. And, those sweet baby girls could have grown up and had relationships of their own. The whole thing is tragic. All this sadness and loss because a man couldn't be strong and brave enough to bring a respectful, honest end to a marriage through divorce. Unreal.

 

[wyldcynic]

Edited by me due to copy/paste error.

So I just finished skimming through the discovery report and wow. Just wow. The summary of the electronic communications, searches etc at the end of the report is remarkable and utterly sad. They clearly do not like NK. To point out that that was "by no means the only time she searched for adult videos" (or something to that effect). How is that relevant? They just wanted to punish her IMO

I also really disliked the characterization of her laugh as "creepy" and "childlike" - why did they insert such very obviously subjective opinions into a factual account? To someone else, that laugh might be cute or adorable. MOO

 

[compass]

Interestingly, he told the investigator he did have girlfriends/dates before Shanann when he spoke about jealousy in their relationship, and Shanann being jealous when he heard from other girls while dating her. So which is the truth? He might have had a string of girlfriends just no one he was serious enough about to inflict Mama Watts on!

I found that interesting too. I wonder though was he lying to investigators, can’t imagine an angle but he is a liar maybe didn’t need angle, or did he lie to Shanann while they dated to make her jealous. Doesn’t matter really, but curious, I think.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Was that before googling Amber Frey and book deals?

It was after. NK searched Amber Frey on August 19th and this interview was August 23rd.