GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Tippy Lynn]

Is it true, as stated in the discovery that they were three months behind on their house payment?

I read it as CW saying SW borrowed 10k out of his 401k to pay the 3 months they were previously behind on. I think they were current on their mortgage that was due in a couple days, but they didn’t have enough money in their accounts to pay the current mortgage payment that was due.
jmo

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

He got life without the possibility for parole. What programs could he benefit from? What a waste of taxpayer money.

I believe the info is also used to decide where to place him.

 

[esayer]

Just got back, again. Didn't see any posts about CW being transferred.

He looks different. Beard is gone, mustache only. Looks heavier!

Yep, he looked better with his bro-beard.

 

[NuttMegg]

Again, I'm not making excuses for CW. From the mountains of FB and other media sights Shanann shared her thoughts about her work and her life. CW appeared to take an active and happy role in the family from her videos. BUT, none of us can really know what goes on behind closed doors, (my life is living proof of that, having been married to an abusive physician.) I think that by the time summer came around, that marriage was in big trouble. SW leaving for several weeks, going half way across the country speaks volumes to that. My heart aches for what she must have been going through. We have expectations that making a life with the person we love, will bring joy and fulfillment. As dreams become shattered, mental anguish and chaos take over. Trying to sort out and deal with all of these emotions takes a huge toll. And there are children in the middle of all of this. As time went on, in the summer, I think CW felt a sense of freedom from his responsibilities, and I think SW was sensing that her world was falling apart. All of this is a lot of speculation on my part.

I don't understand your speculation, because she was murdered, unless you think that the person who makes more has an excuse to kill the other one? What if she had been a stay-a-home Mom? Like my Mom was, my stepmother was, and my SIL is. I don't hear anything within the family about how the man is working harder at the marriage than the woman.

 

[BabyButterfly]

One video that sticks in my mind is of Shanann speaking to CW being the best thing that ever happened to her. He messaged her when she was in a very dark place with illness. IMO that was the lure. Her illness. He knew her weakness and zeroed in on it. Then when he was done with them all they were to be extinguished. No problem. For him.

Jumping off your post. My thoughts, at the beginning of their relationship, Shannan was very down and feeling crappy, a lot. He helped her, and was like her knight in shining armor. I think that was his thing. After having a mother dearest, he loved the feeling of being needed. Shannan needed him a lot in the beginning. As she became more in tune with her body and her illnesses, she needed him less and less. Lupus, and most illnesses have ebbs and flows. Once she got used to that, Shannan pushed forward and did what she needed to do for the life she wanted. CW didn't have the same, so called helpless female to take care, she could do it on her own. To me, that was his issue.

MOO, etc.

Eta. One of his seemingly many issues!

 

[PommyMommy]

I do not have the reference on here, but there were perhaps four reasons explaining FA. One was money. He did not have religious reasons. I don’t remember the other two.

Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother who he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.

Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father.

Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function.

Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family.

Characteristics of Family Killers Revealed By First Taxonomy Study | Wiley News Room – Press Releases, News, Events & Media

 

[tmar]

ITA. She played herself off to be a better person than she really was.

In doing this, it has raised more questions, as now lies have been revealed.
NK caused herself more harm, by doing this.
She now is probably in damage control.
MOO.

 

[pocketaccent]

Discovery page 1059 - 1065 (PDF page 941 - 947)
is a 7 page typed document by NK, given to Baumhover on Sep 4.

Found some lurid details about their sexual activity (to me, in different generation I guess). eg, "The sex from then on for the rest of the relationship was greatly reduced from 3-4 daily to 1 or maybe 2x and was not ? intimate when it occurred. Sex no longer happened every day we hung out, but was still very frequent."

This document also shows what NK said she and CW talked about on Aug 13.
(I'm about to go out so don't have time to type.)

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think that most normal, logical people would conclude that you do not hide the bodies of your children in such a diabolical and uncaring way if you were not responsible for their deaths.
I have to think that juries are made up of normal people who would find that an atrocity.

And then there was Casey Anthony’s jury.

 

[PommyMommy]

Is it true, as stated in the discovery that they were three months behind on their house payment?

Page 529 (Discovery pg 596)

"He currently owes his mortgage payment for August (2018), which is due tomorrow (August 16, 2018)."

 

[AbbyG]

Are we really trying to justify the actions of a monster who brutally strangled his wife and smothered his little girls and then discarded them as trash? Wow I can’t even comprehend what SW family would be feeling if they have been reading the last few pages.....

I know, sigh, every time we get back on track one person comes on and starts with the insinuations. Maybe from now on let's just ignore completely and keep going without trying to play to that nonsense.

 

[esayer]

My sense is that Shanann spent several weeks in NC, trying to get some perspective on a marriage that had been going south. In this couple, I see 2 people who operated on 2 different tracks much of the time. She seemed to be the Alpha in the relationship, setting goals, keeping it all together and presenting an image she thought was important or necessary to portray. She also seemed OCD to me, which is a standard very few can live up to. It creates huge pressure. Lots of concern about image and "keeping up with the Jones." It also seems she was all consumed with this Thrive thing, regardless of the fact that it really did not bring in much $$. But she spent huge amounts of time and energy on this nonproductive endevour. This was a very young couple who wanted instant gratification. This IS MY OPINION, and I'm not victim shaming here, but they each lived in their own realities, which did not always converge. The whole 2.4 children and a house in the Burbs, fancy looking car. I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it. I in no way, am justifying his behavior, but as I've said before, I do understand it to a point. Such a very sad and tragic situation.

Chris was just as concerned or possibly more concerned about outward appearances and what others thought of him. There are several instances of him being bad with money, not her. And he was the one spoiling his mistress, not Shanann.

I do not buy the 'Alpha' 'Beta' thing at all. That was study done on wolves decades ago that got co-opted by the man-o-sphere to explain male behavior. And all of it was found to be BS, and the author said he wishes he never wrote that study.

But one could argue that it was Chris controlling everything through his moods and his interactions with his wife. He manipulated her and gaslighted her, and to his friends and family as well! He controlled that relationship, and he controlled Shanann through giving and withholding affection.

 

[ZsaZsa]

We are receiving different versions about NK: through LE, her media reports, her phone and internet records etc.
Pretty soon, all will become clear.
Wonder who this 'house guest' Jim may turn out to be, now that he doesn't have a surname.

I will just hazard a guess- another married man.....

 

[MassGuy]

In doing this, it has raised more questions, as now lies have been revealed.
NK caused herself more harm, by doing this.
She now is probably in damage control.
MOO.

I’m not sure. The public at large is likely still under the impression that she is a bit of a hero in all of this.

Those of us who have followed the case closely, know this to be untrue.

Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority here.

 

[tmar]

Again, I'm not making excuses for CW. From the mountains of FB and other media sights Shanann shared her thoughts about her work and her life. CW appeared to take an active and happy role in the family from her videos. BUT, none of us can really know what goes on behind closed doors, (my life is living proof of that, having been married to an abusive physician.) I think that by the time summer came around, that marriage was in big trouble. SW leaving for several weeks, going half way across the country speaks volumes to that. My heart aches for what she must have been going through. We have expectations that making a life with the person we love, will bring joy and fulfillment. As dreams become shattered, mental anguish and chaos take over. Trying to sort out and deal with all of these emotions takes a huge toll. And there are children in the middle of all of this. As time went on, in the summer, I think CW felt a sense of freedom from his responsibilities, and I think SW was sensing that her world was falling apart. All of this is a lot of speculation on my part.

celticthyme, I feel for you regarding your abusive times.
Hope you moved on, and are happy now.
Your line "As dreams become shattered, mental anguish and chaos take over", is what happened here, with Shan'ann trying to work things out, whereas CW wanted his freedom.

 

[Gardener1850]

Is it true, as stated in the discovery that they were three months behind on their house payment?

I'm not sure. Wasn't that only said by CW in his interviews when he was trying to blame SW for everything? I'm not taking his word for it. Did we get anything else showing that they were behind on the mortgage?

 

[AbbyG]

Some other things that jumped out at me from the docu-dump that I haven't really seen discussed. Though I may have missed it. Discovery page 2102 Shannan texted "would you stay with me if I didn't have the kids." If it /had/ gone to trial this seems like it would have looked bad for the possibility of her killing them? (I know it could also be her picking up on his coldness to the kids and /his/ wanting them gone) .

Also I'm not sure where it was at but I thought there was talk of bad blood in the past with her and others about money and I'm just not seeing how she could possibly be making that much with the MLM thing. Though I suppose some people somehow make money on it. I've heard of people going into debt buying product to reach a level of sales. I just don't feel like we have the whole picture.

Here's the thing from discovery page 596 (and I am NOT saying she deserved to die I just find a lot of things perplexing in this case)
"SHANANN got their policies through his cousin’s wife (NICOLE KENNEDY), so he does not know how much they were.
 SHANANN and NICOLE had a falling out over a “money thing.”
 He believed NICOLE and SHANANN’s old boss believed SHANANN had embezzled money from the business."

You are referencing a lot of things that have been disproved as existing in anyone's mind other than The Family Chris Watts. For example, the money embezzling is utter fabrication, given that she an that former boss remained very good friends. Highly suspicious about the policies as well. Anything CW says cannot be trusted. Dod you also take note of the neighbor who said he often heard CW YELLING at Shan'ann? Not the other way around. Chris Watts heard often raising his voice at his wife, whom he murdered, along with their children, before disposing of them and chomping on pizza. Un hunh.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I will just hazard a guess- another married man.....

I’m not gonna lie......I thought the same thing.

 

[Jupiter05]

My sense is that Shanann spent several weeks in NC, trying to get some perspective on a marriage that had been going south. In this couple, I see 2 people who operated on 2 different tracks much of the time. She seemed to be the Alpha in the relationship, setting goals, keeping it all together and presenting an image she thought was important or necessary to portray. She also seemed OCD to me, which is a standard very few can live up to. It creates huge pressure. Lots of concern about image and "keeping up with the Jones." It also seems she was all consumed with this Thrive thing, regardless of the fact that it really did not bring in much $$. But she spent huge amounts of time and energy on this nonproductive endevour. This was a very young couple who wanted instant gratification. This IS MY OPINION, and I'm not victim shaming here, but they each lived in their own realities, which did not always converge. The whole 2.4 children and a house in the Burbs, fancy looking car. I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it. I in no way, am justifying his behavior, but as I've said before, I do understand it to a point. Such a very sad and tragic situation.

Many young couples live beyond their means and overspend. It is no excuse to murder your family. I do feel you are bashing Shanann and trying to somehow blame her for what the monster CW did,

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I’m not sure. The public at large, is likely still under the impression that she is a bit of a hero in all of this.

Those of us who have followed the case closely, know this to be untrue.

Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority here.

FB and YouTube comments do not speak kindly of her after the doc drop.

Shes going to have a hard time getting her life back in order.

Moo