GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Jupiter05]

I feel you missed the punch line - NK knew he was lying about the opened condoms because she worked out the purchase date from the expiry date. So she wasn't quite on board with his stories IMO.

God forbid if CW was cheating on her with his wife!

 

[human]

Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother who he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.

Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father.

Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function.

Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family.

Characteristics of Family Killers Revealed By First Taxonomy Study | Wiley News Room – Press Releases, News, Events & Media

I don’t see him fitting any of those.

He wanted out. A new life

 

[curiouschat]

You are wanting to discuss the lies that CW's family spouted. They are LIES so why would you even go there? They are baseless, false and mean spirited and are only in the discovery because of the interviews. If you feel attacked, then I would suggest you read the rules of this site again and realize that you are coming off a bit like the Watts family and "friends". You sound like you are trying to make SW look bad and that will not fly here.

Can you answer my question where I said he was "trying his best" if that was directed at me?? I feel like you're lumping in multiple posts with mine or responding to more than just what I posted. Idk I'm quite confused. As far as "making her look bad" I mean even if they were in debt it wouldn't justify killing her by any means. I don't understand why you're so upset just about my asking about things in the actual report?

 

[The Farm]

PDF page 529, Discovery page 596

He knew when the kids returned to school that they would be living paycheck to paycheck.
SHANANN recently took out $10,000.00 from his 401k to catch up on their mortgage payments. CHRIS believed the loan against his 401k was taken out approximately five (5) months ago
They were three (3) months behind on their mortgage payments.
They had received a letter from Chase Bank pertaining to their delinquent home loan.
He and SHANANN were stressed out about their financial situation.
He currently owes his mortgage payment for August (2018), which is due tomorrow (August 16, 2018).
He currently has $2,000.00 in his Chase checking account and approximately $1,500.00 in their USAA checking account.
Almost all of their credit cards are maxed out.
SHANANN had only been paying the minimum payment on their credit cards.

Yes but that was out of CW's mouth so we were not sure of the validity.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree, CW could very well have written it, the problem I have is with mama Watts holding this sealed envelope without opening it. Unless, my mind is ticking over now, he kept it somewhere safe and told his dad where to find it. Wouldn't the police be all over it if CW was communicating secretly to his dad about a hidden letter? The letter is the weirdest thing ever, not quite up there with the Ramsey's ransom note, but close!

If he did write it, and I'm now convinced he did, because it was so useless to him with the situation he was in, I don't think he would have entrusted anything to his mother. Curiosity would have gotten the better of her if he'd said anything like - if anything happens to me. So I say no way jose to that.

Same with sister Watts IMO, he wouldn't have trusted her not to open it immediately with her vendetta against Shanann.

I think he may have given it to his dad and his dad didn't think of opening it immediately because he was thinking of it more as a will of sorts, and CW was still alive. Maybe he started thinking about it more as the weeks went by and eventually told mother Watts about it, so they opened it. that's when she ripped it out of his hands and gave him an earful for not giving it to her sooner.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes but that was out of CW's mouth so we were not sure of the validity.

I didn’t see any financial statement for the Watts in the discovery documents.
jmo

 

[Layla123]

Wednesday, Aug. 15
4:15 p.m. — Prior to Christopher Watts' confession, police investigators start a drone search of the oil and gas site where they believed the bodies of Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts to be located. They spot a bed sheet matching the pattern of several pillow cases and a top sheet recovered from a kitchen trash can in the Watts' home earlier that day. Police also spot "fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks."

Wednesday evening — After two days of investigating, police discover that Christopher Watts was engaged in an affair with a co-worker, according to arrest documents. In an interview with police, Christopher Watts "said he would tell the truth after speaking with his dad," arrest documents say.

11:30 p.m. — Christopher Watts is arrested on suspicion of three first-degree murder charges and three charges of tampering with a deceased human body.

Timeline: Key dates in investigation of deaths of Shanann Watts, 2 daughters in Colorado

Are you saying while the police were investigating NK over those 2 days, she voluntarily contacted them first? It most likely happened that way, she stated in the media interview she approached them on Oct 16, unless there's more to come in the next dump which states the police contacted her first. I understand your reluctance to believe she didn't have good intentions, she did do the right thing by contacting the police before they did.

EDIT:
Hmm, just edited post for PommyMommy's relevant info, so did the FBI make contact first or did she? I'm confused.

I want us all to agree this is true ( Discovery page 1925/1740 of 1960) But everyone here is saying it didn’t happen.
"A two-day investigation revealed Watts was involved in an affair with Nicole Kissinger which he had denied in previous interviews. The affair was only discovered after Kessinger contacted your affiant stating she had information regarding this investigation. In an interview with investigators (08/15/18) Kissinger disclosed she had been romantically involved with Watts and the relationship began around June of 2018.“

 

[esayer]

wait where did I say he was trying his best?

'I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it.'

There ya go. This is why we are all freaking out on you. You are blaming SW for the murders. We do not take kindly to that here.

Edit: Oh oops, yep it was that other poster. Sorry you have similar names and both started posting similar stuff at the same time.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I want us all to agree this is true ( Discovery page 1925/1740 of 1960) But everyone here is saying it didn’t happen.
"A two-day investigation revealed Watts was involved in an affair with Nicole Kissinger which he had denied in previous interviews. The affair was only discovered after Kessinger contacted your affiant stating she had information regarding this investigation. In an interview with investigators (08/15/18) Kissinger disclosed she had been romantically involved with Watts and the relationship began around June of 2018.“

True

 

[curiouschat]

'I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it.'

There ya go. This is why we are all freaking out on you. You are blaming SW for the murders. We do not take kindly to that here.

Please show me the actual post where I said that. That's a quote but can you link to it? Pretty sure it was someone else. I am sooo confused.

 

[human]

Yes but that was out of CW's mouth so we were not sure of the validity.

The income SW made was only said by him?

I think the money had a lot to do with it. Otherwise, just divorce. Walk away.

His gf has her own place and he could move in with her. She wanted him. They could camp and do whatever fun things they wanted for awhile until the shine wore off. But they would not know that the lust could not last for that long.

The child supoort would be something but the gf has a job.

His parents would be happy that he left SW.

He can have a whole new set of aquaintences. Easy come, easy go. He would no longer be living in the neighborhood.

People get divorced all of the time.

But he was in a financial pickle. So the encumbrances had to go. Time for a new , fun life

 

[Jupiter05]

Where is this letter people are talking about at? I only saw some mention of it at the press conference afterword I believe and it didn't seem to be part of the investigation?

It was not part of the investigation. It came out of nowhere right about before CW had his sentencing hearing and Mama Watts called all of the news channels to defend her son, blame Shanann, and tell lies. Pretty sure it was something concocted or if CW had written it, it points to premeditation. IMO

 

[tmar]

OK I'm in.[/QUOTE)

We have loads of experience in scrolling past .

Sorry NuttMegg.
My scrolling past comment, was inserted into your quote, when I back spaced, due to my error.
Yep. Scroll past.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I listened to the podcast PommyMommy provided the link to earlier. Tricia definitely thinks if someone examines this case and writes a book that Cindy and her upbringing will be the starting point, finding out why she is like she is the key.

It was a good podcast, Tricia and Levi made some good observations and Mama Watts has shown her true colours which isn't pretty!

In a previous thread, a poster stated it was misogynistic to entirely or even partially blame mama Watts for CW's character development, that society always blames the woman/mother for the downfall of a man. I did take this on board and believe it would be beneficial to look into mama Watts childhood, she could have daddy issues, a tyrannical father who demanded perfection, so she created the perfect 'good' son, he would never disappoint her, where papa Watts plays in this, I'm not sure.

I'm not giving anyone an out, it's just usually these FAs don't come out of nowhere, there's evidently a deep seated hatred for their mother who publicly shows support and love for their son, but in their upbringing there may have been conditions attached to this love. jmo

 

[human]

Please show me the actual post where I said that. That's a quote but can you link to it? Pretty sure it was someone else. I am sooo confused.

It was not you. 100% sure

 

[curiouschat]

Gah I don't know how to do the multiquote thingy yet but it looks like celicthyme said that?

 

[tmar]

God forbid if CW was cheating on her with his wife!

Poor NK.

 

[curiouschat]

It was not you. 100% sure

lol I was like am I not even aware of what I posted?

 

[MassGuy]

It was a good podcast, Tricia and Levi made some good observations and Mama Watts has shown her true colours which isn't pretty!

In a previous thread, a poster stated it was misogynistic to entirely or even partially blame mama Watts for CW's character development, that society always blames the woman/mother for the downfall of a man. I did take this on board and believe it would be beneficial to look into mama Watts childhood, she could have daddy issues, a tyrannical father who demanded perfection, so she created the perfect 'good' son, he would never disappoint her, where papa Watts plays in this, I'm not sure.

I'm not giving anyone an out, it's just usually these FAs don't come out of nowhere, there's evidently a deep seated hatred for their mother who publicly shows support and love for their son, but in their upbringing there may have been conditions attached to this love. jmo

True. There are numerous cases where FA’s and serial killers have documented “mommy issues.”

This isn’t blaming women for the actions of a man, it simply helps explain part of his psychology.

 

[book-thinker]

I'm not here to bash her I was asking if there was more discussion or info on that which was a direct quote from the info dump. I don't understand why you're attacking me like this. I no way said or meant she or the babies deserved to die even if it was true, nor that I knew if it was true. I just find it all confusing. Jesus.

Have you read any of Discovery documents? It would possibly give you a better understanding of the facts.