GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[Layla123]

I don’t understand why, after all those years together, Shanann didn’t know CW was a liar. And it’s clear from her texts to him up until the end that she still believed in him. Did he just start lying when he met NK?

 

[MassGuy]

Actually, I doubt the veracity of Sandra’s letter, as shown in Discovery pages 1400 - 1409.

For instance, she said the bankruptcy was due to medical bills. Only $4749.09 of the BK was medical. $12,827.75 was retail junk, mostly from buying sprees right after that house was purchased by Chris. $41,650 was various credit cards, some from NC. $11,245.37 was student loans. The neck surgery wasn’t until after the 2015 BK.

One could argue that some of the $41,650 credit card debt was due to medical, but Chris had a health policy at $476.67 employee cost through Anadarko. I know Anadarko employees - their cost is about 1/3 of the actual policy. $467.67 per month in 2015 is a gold plan.

Another instance is how Sandra confuses peanuts with tree nut allergies. Shanann fed the girls peanut butter products. If Sandra is confused about if it was peanuts or tree nuts, then her house must’ve been a potential hazard as well.

Another instance is the assertion that Chris had genital “cancer,” discovered right after they were married in 2012. He’d be age 27. That’s pretty odd.

I truly do not mean to start a fight. And I’ve got things to do today so I’m not going to go back and forth and argue.

But I’m posting this because I find it incredibly disturbing that Cindy Watts is being called “evil” and having a “dark heart” by posters, when clearly are many versions of what transpired.

Nothing will be learned from this tragedy if people choose to believe everything is black and white.

I believe there are a lot of answers about “why could this happen” in the Watts’ financial and medical records, which we are not privy to. Perhaps eventually they will come out, and there might be some shades of grey which will help people understand ways to prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.

All one needs to know about Cindy Watts, came from her disgusting tv interviews, interviews that were universally criticized.

I have no idea why what I am assuming to be testicular cancer, would be odd.

Financial troubles may be part of the motive, but they will never explain family annihilation, not here, not ever.

Criticizing the mother of a murder victim, especially without evidence, is all sorts of wrong.

 

[Melsworld]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered so I apologize in advance but I haven't been able to find it.

--- Are there two different discovery files? I've only seen the 1 that's 1960 pages and when certain pages are referenced it's not matching up so I thought there's another file possibly?

--- I was trying to find out what the purpose of Shanann's parents filing the wrongful death lawsuit. I 100% stand behind them in anything they do because I think they are such stand up people (just like the daughter they raised) I just don't understand it. Maybe @gitana1 or someone else can explain the legal reasons for it.

 

[Really?]

There's different forms and levels of narcassists. He still without a doubt shows narcissist behaviours:

He was having an affair
If he was having sex with SW he was putting their unborn child at risk of an STD
He was lying
He was sneaking around
He was spending money they didn't have
He was actively choosing to stay up late at nights having such affair, which could impact his ability to do his job the next day
He refused to engage in any conversation SW wanted to sort their marriage out
He was more interested in his t-shirt than his missing wife and kids
He's been more interested in ensuring he comes across as a good guy and people think this about him

And my favourite.. Encouraging her to have another child, but then turning around once pregnant and saying he no longer wants said child.

Everything about him shows he's a subtle covert narcassist

.....and my favorite.........omg so true..

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Actually, I doubt the veracity of Sandra’s letter, as shown in Discovery pages 1400 - 1409.

For instance, she said the bankruptcy was due to medical bills. Only $4749.09 of the BK was medical. $12,827.75 was retail junk, mostly from buying sprees right after that house was purchased by Chris. $41,650 was various credit cards, some from NC. $11,245.37 was student loans. The neck surgery wasn’t until after the 2015 BK.

One could argue that some of the $41,650 credit card debt was due to medical, but Chris had a health policy at $476.67 employee cost through Anadarko. I know Anadarko employees - their cost is about 1/3 of the actual policy. $467.67 per month in 2015 is a gold plan.

Another instance is how Sandra confuses peanuts with tree nut allergies. Shanann fed the girls peanut butter products. If Sandra is confused about if it was peanuts or tree nuts, then her house must’ve been a potential hazard as well.

Another instance is the assertion that Chris had genital “cancer,” discovered right after they were married in 2012. He’d be age 27. That’s pretty odd.

I truly do not mean to start a fight. And I’ve got things to do today so I’m not going to go back and forth and argue.

But I’m posting this because I find it incredibly disturbing that Cindy Watts is being called “evil” and having a “dark heart” by posters, when clearly are many versions of what transpired.

Nothing will be learned from this tragedy if people choose to believe everything is black and white.

I believe there are a lot of answers about “why could this happen” in the Watts’ financial and medical records, which we are not privy to. Perhaps eventually they will come out, and there might be some shades of grey which will help people understand ways to prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.

I have experience this type. My ex would give our granddaughter whole grapes In Spite if the fact his late father was a Firefigter/Emt. He told us many stories of using pliers to get remove grapes from toddlers throats,or on a few occasions he has cut child's throat open to get to grape,or hot dog piece. In order to save child's life.
I told him on several occasions to cut then up before giving them to her.
I told him after the third time I wish his dead father could come down and give him what for.
These people knew exactly what they were doing. In spite of their grandaughter's niece's Alergies.
Having dealt with sort of personality I'm not going to cut them any breaks.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t understand why, after all those years together, Shanann didn’t know CW was a liar. And it’s clear from her texts to him up until the end that she still believed in him. Did he just start lying when he met NK?

Context. He likely didn’t have a reason to lie, especially to that degree, until he had big things to lie about.

NK was a big thing.

 

[PommyMommy]

Actually, I doubt the veracity of Sandra’s letter, as shown in Discovery pages 1400 - 1409.

For instance, she said the bankruptcy was due to medical bills. Only $4749.09 of the BK was medical. $12,827.75 was retail junk, mostly from buying sprees right after that house was purchased by Chris. $41,650 was various credit cards, some from NC. $11,245.37 was student loans. The neck surgery wasn’t until after the 2015 BK.

One could argue that some of the $41,650 credit card debt was due to medical, but Chris had a health policy at $476.67 employee cost through Anadarko. I know Anadarko employees - their cost is about 1/3 of the actual policy. $467.67 per month in 2015 is a gold plan.

Another instance is how Sandra confuses peanuts with tree nut allergies. Shanann fed the girls peanut butter products. If Sandra is confused about if it was peanuts or tree nuts, then her house must’ve been a potential hazard as well.

Another instance is the assertion that Chris had genital “cancer,” discovered right after they were married in 2012. He’d be age 27. That’s pretty odd.

I truly do not mean to start a fight. And I’ve got things to do today so I’m not going to go back and forth and argue.

But I’m posting this because I find it incredibly disturbing that Cindy Watts is being called “evil” and having a “dark heart” by posters, when clearly are many versions of what transpired.

Nothing will be learned from this tragedy if people choose to believe everything is black and white.

I believe there are a lot of answers about “why could this happen” in the Watts’ financial and medical records, which we are not privy to. Perhaps eventually they will come out, and there might be some shades of grey which will help people understand ways to prevent another tragedy like this from occurring.

I find it incredibly disturbing that anybody would endanger the life of a child to prove a point, or out of spite, or because they are ignorant. It doesn't matter the excuse - the Watts' were advised of CeCe's allergy and requested to have a nut-free home while Shanann and the girls were visiting. If my grandchild had a nut allergy, nobody on my street would have nuts!!!

I find it incredibly disturbing that the Watts' would continue to insult a dead woman - one who was murdered by their own son.

I find it incredibly disturbing that anybody could be so filled with hate for their future daughter-in-law/sister-in-law that they would sabotage their own son's wedding and refuse to attend.

I find it incredibly disturbing when grown adults refuse to cast aside their differences in order to attend their grandchild's/niece's third birthday party.

I find it incredibly disturbing that the Watts family are unable to apologize themselves for the vile and grotesque statements they made about Shanann.

MOO

 

[Layla123]

NK also might have been looking for a way to give her side of the story if need be - if she was accused of being part of the murder plan, etc. I can’t imagine being in her shoes so I am reluctant to judge her on this issue.

It seems to me that LE has done everything they can to show NK in a bad light, from saying she laughed creepily to unnecessarily exposing all of her sex searches on the Internet. They wanted to ruin her life, and they succeeded. Everybody hates her.

 

[Gardener1850]

Sorry if this has already been discussed but I just read in the discovery report that in an interview with the director of the Primrose school that the girls were set to attend, the director stated that Shannans mother called to see if the girls were in school between 0800 and 0830 that morning of the 13th. Does anyone know of this has been verified by Shannans mom that this was actually her that made this call ? I just found it strange for some reason..

It doesn't seem strange to me. Shanann was not answering her phone and IIRC she usually texted her friends and family first thing in the morning. By 11:30 they knew she missed her doctors appointment. By the afternoon CW had come home and they knew Shanann, Bella and CeCe were not at home. Her mother was probably frantically hoping the school had made a mistake or she spoke to the wrong person the first time or that the girls would turn up there with some explanation for their absence. JMO.

 

[Jupiter05]

First day of kindergarten is a big deal. She was likely expecting to talk to them before they left.

And SW was not just answering her phone, it was turned off which was highly unusual for her.

Moo

Did you notice CW in the porch interviews saying that Bella was starting Kindergarten the NEXT week?

 

[katydid23]

First day of kindergarten is a big deal. She was likely expecting to talk to them before they left.

And SW was not just answering her phone, it was turned off which was highly unusual for her.

Moo

Yes, good thinking. My DIL sent me a picture of my grand baby on her first day of preschool, that morning as they were getting in the car. I called her to say 'congrats' to my granddaughter. It was a big deal to her to be going to school.

DIL told me she was going to send me a picture because I helped her pick out the new backpack and sweater for the big day. So if she hadn't texted me the pic, and wasn't answering my call, I'd have been worried about them too. [ And my son isn't abusive so it wouldn't be because of him even....just concern in general if she wasn't answering calls.]

I think Mom was worried for a few reasons---the high risk pregnancy, the return to home after 6 long weeks, and the drama with the marriage.

 

[BabyButterfly]

That she called that early (only 6 hours after SW got home) before anybody suspected anything was wrong. I may be really far off base but my immediate thought was that someone else may have made that call and was pretending to be her mom. That’s why I was curious if her mom had actually confirmed she made that call? I couldn’t find it in discovery but wondered if someone else had?

IMO Shanann was most likely supposed to FaceTime or go live for the girls first day back at school. Her mom was most likely waiting to see her granddaughters all excited about school and got nothing. I didn't look close enough at the phone records to see if she tried calling Shanann, probably numerous times before calling the school.

Eta. Sorry I see many have said basically the same thing

 

[Layla123]

Context. He likely didn’t have a reason to lie, especially to that degree, until he had big things to lie about.

NK was a big thing.

Do you think that? I just don’t get it. There had to be a gradual decline in their relationship, but apparently, Shanann didn’t see it. She loved him til the end. I would say CW must have been a great actor, but he wasn’t, we all watched him on the porch.

 

[Jupiter05]

I don’t understand why, after all those years together, Shanann didn’t know CW was a liar. And it’s clear from her texts to him up until the end that she still believed in him. Did he just start lying when he met NK?

He seemed pretty savvy in his deception with the secret calculator app, the gift cards and lies about traffic, the rockies game, etc. Sounds like he had some practice. Lots of practice!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

If CeCe ingested peanuts and died would Cindy be charged for negligence? Is it possible she hoped she'd get sick? or even die? How deep does her hatred go for SW?

There was a case about 13 years ago, the mother out coconut oil in her 3 year old granddaughters hair. She knew the girl was allergic but putting the oil in hair was something she grew up doing and did with her daughter. The 3 year old died during the night from a reaction, the grandmother was not charged.

 

[Thinker Belle]

Makes complete sense and I’m sure as another poster pointed out, her mom was expecting a phone call or at least first day of school pictures that morning. I probably would do the same thing in calling the school, especially if I didn’t live close by. I was just wondering if it had been verified by Sandy herself that she in fact was the one who made that phone call but like MassGuy mentioned, it most likely was checked into by LE already.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Did you notice CW in the porch interviews saying that Bella was starting Kindergarten the NEXT week?

Yes, imagine what SW family and friends thought when ther heard that. Of course they already knew by then. He gave the porch interviews because NUA pushed for them.

Moo

 

[Tortoise]

All one needs to know about Cindy Watts, came from her disgusting tv interviews, interviews that were universally criticized.

I have no idea why what I am assuming to be testicular cancer, would be odd.

Financial troubles may be part of the motive, but they will never explain family annihilation, not here, not ever.

Criticizing the mother of a murder victim, especially without evidence, is all sorts of wrong.

I actually think it equates to throwing a hand grenade into the thread. I suggest we all roll on by - otherwise Tricia will turn her car around.

 

[Layla123]

He seemed pretty savvy in his deception with the secret calculator app, the gift cards and lies about traffic, the rockies game, etc. Sounds like he had some practice. Lots of practice!

There is no way my husband could have gotten away with any of that. It’s not that I check up on him, it’s just that our lives are so entwined, I would have noticed. For example, lots of times I forget my iPhone, so I borrow his. I would have noticed.

 

[Thinker Belle]

It doesn't seem strange to me. Shanann was not answering her phone and IIRC she usually texted her friends and family first thing in the morning. By 11:30 they knew she missed her doctors appointment. By the afternoon CW had come home and they knew Shanann, Bella and CeCe were not at home. Her mother was probably frantically hoping the school had made a mistake or she spoke to the wrong person the first time or that the girls would turn up there with some explanation for their absence. JMO.

My post above was in response to this post but I left out the quote. My apologies!