GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[Jupiter05]

IMO, people that are honest go out into the world assuming everyone is honest like them. I think that was the case with SW as she was honest and assumed CW was also. It was not until the end when she got suspicious due to his aloof and cold behavior. Then when she was closing in on him with the CC charge, CW did not want to come clean.

 

[MassGuy]

It seems to me that LE has done everything they can to show NK in a bad light, from saying she laughed creepily to unnecessarily exposing all of her sex searches on the Internet. They wanted to ruin her life, and they succeeded. Everybody hates her.

There is an element of personal responsibility here.

Before she came forward, I didn’t hold her in high regard, as I figured that she knew SW and CW were married.

When she did come forward, my opinion changed. I saw her as an Amber Frey like victim, a woman mislead by a devious killer.

After seeing the information in the discovery document, my opinion again changed. She seems to have been disingenuous about what she knew and when she knew it.

When the DA described her as “mostly forthcoming,” that was not a compliment.

To say LE is “trying to ruin her life,” is incredibly irresponsible. We don’t know their intent, although they appear frustrated in regards to how she handled things.

There are consequences for our actions, whether or not we deserve them.

She’s not the worst person in the world, but she is absolutely not a hero.

 

[riolove77]

PDF page 39, Discovery page 84

Upon entry to the home I immediately noticed a strong odor of cleaning chemicals. The home appeared spotless and the carpet had noticeable vacuum lines. As we walked to the kitchen/living room area, I observed that the television was on a sports show.

BBM. Unbelievable. Prepping for his fantasy team I opine.

 

[katie565]

Do you think that? I just don’t get it. There had to be a gradual decline in their relationship, but apparently, Shanann didn’t see it. She loved him til the end. I would say CW must have been a great actor, but he wasn’t, we all watched him on the porch.

The thing is, there didn’t seem to be a gradual decline in the relationship according to Shanann or anyone who knew them. (Couldn’t keep his hands off her before she left, etc.) It was like the flip of a light switch. Seemingly normal one day and deadly soon after. I think that’s the reason everyone (including me) is still digging through minutiae in these documents. Trying to make sense out of something completely nonsensical.

 

[BabyButterfly]

Yes, imagine what SW family and friends thought when ther heard that. Of course they already knew by then. He gave the porch interviews because NUA pushed for them.

Moo

My reaction was WHAT?? And then, dumb#$#. We all knew they were starting school that day.

 

[MassGuy]

I actually think it equates to throwing a hand grenade into the thread. I suggest we all roll on by - otherwise Tricia will turn her car around.

Haaaa. It’s way too early to be going home.

 

[Thepoet]

Diagnoses for insurance purposes! Interesting to look at these disorders from that perspective.

I think we all want to fit someone like this in a specific diagnostic box because we want order and certainty. I'm guilty of that. It makes my mind feel better.
and was
It is helpful to realize there probably won't be one definitive answer.

I fully agree with you and with @stereopticons . For myself, I've decided that CW became a "perfect storm"! He was a quiet person who existed in the background and was broken (his mind and personality) inside. That was combined with nurture; the devastating force of his mother and her emotional disabilities. CW's broken state probably would not have been enough, by itself, to lead to the devastation he caused. Neither (M.O.O.) was the influence of his mother, by itself. However the two (2) combined, created a storm. Next, came his relationship with Shanann and the creation of his own family, followed by CW's physical transformation and increased confidence. The storm increased and then the final driving force was the increased interest in CW, by others, especially NK. In the perfect storm that then raged, CW saw no solution except to be rid of his family. To me the final part of the storm was; in his broken mind not only did he want to be rid of his family, but he could never let them be free or let anyone else to have them. I believe he felt his image would be greatly diminished by his family being happy without him and with someone else. To him this left only one solution; kill them all. Many elements that created "a perfect storm".

 

[Applecross]

I notice that CW phoned Shanann’s mom on the Sunday at 17.07 for 12 mins. But there is no account of what was discussed or what prompted CW to phone her. I would have thought it was relevant to include that information and that Sandy would have been asked? Did she speak to the children or hear them in the background, did CW refer to them at all? Were they discussing Shanann and Sandy’s worries about the situation? IMO what was discussed would be important as within a few hours the murders would occur.

 

[Colorado303]

Do we absolutely know that?

Well no. She could have been deliberately trying to send CeCe into anaphalactic shock. But we’re giving her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[katie565]

There is no way my husband could have gotten away with any of that. It’s not that I check up on him, it’s just that our lives are so entwined, I would have noticed. For example, lots of times I forget my iPhone, so I borrow his. I would have noticed.

I think if they were living under the same roof, it would have been easier to piece together but when you’re thousands of miles away and he’s never given you reason to suspect him of cheating, AND you’re pregnant, that’s not a line of thought you’re going to entertain easily

 

[Jupiter05]

The thing is, there didn’t seem to be a gradual decline in the relationship according to Shanann or anyone who knew them. (Couldn’t keep his hands off her before she left, etc.) It was like the flip of a light switch. Seemingly normal one day and deadly soon after. I think that’s the reason everyone (including me) is still digging through minutiae in these documents. Trying to make sense out of something completely nonsensical.

I doubt we will ever get there, unless CW comes clean.

 

[MassGuy]

I notice that CW phoned Shanann’s mom on the Sunday at 17.07 for 12 mins. But there is no account of what was discussed or what prompted CW to phone her. I would have thought it was relevant to include that information and that Sandy would have been asked? Did she speak to the children or hear them in the background, did CW refer to them at all? Were they discussing Shanann and Sandy’s worries about the situation? IMO what was discussed would be important as within a few hours the murders would occur.

That appears to have been a FaceTime call with Shanann’s father.

He described Bella eating cold pizza.

Page 679

 

[Deleted member 182072]

And to CW's family, who am I to judge? There may be zillion things between CW/SW and his parents that didnt come to light. CW is responsible to do the balancing act and he totally failed at it. ...
Total utterly failure on CW's part and he is solely responsible one!!

snipped by me.
Yes, CW is solely to blame for murdering his family.
Hopefully the Watts family will eventually learn that trashing a murder victim is only going to make people look at them more closely for answers as to why the monster turned out the way he did.
Since the vast majority of the public cannot abide victim bashers, for their own sake, they should abandon that losing strategy and accept that CW is solely to blame for all of it.
MOO

 

[katie565]

I doubt we will ever get there, unless CW comes clean.

Even that won’t do it. There is no way to ever make sense of it because he has a disordered brain.

 

[Applecross]

That appears to have been a FaceTime call with Shanann’s father.

He described Bella eating cold pizza.

Page 679

Ah thanks. That explains it then.

 

[Layla123]

There is an element of personal responsibility here.

Before she came forward, I didn’t hold her in high regard, as I figured that she knew SW and CW were married.

When she came forward, my opinion changed. I saw her as an Amber Frey like victim, a woman mislead by a devious killer.

After seeing the information in the discovery document, my opinion again changed. She seems to have been disingenuous about what she knew and when she knew it.

When the DA described her as “mostly forthcoming,” that was not a compliment.

To say LE is “trying to ruin her life,” is incredibly irresponsible. We don’t know their intent, although they appear frustrated in regards to how she handled things.

There are consequences for our actions, whether or not we deserve them.

She’s not the worst person in the world, but she is absolutely not a hero.

I just watched that HLN clip posted above where they say something like, “she said she didn’t know him, but obviously she did.” Maybe it’s just me, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I hear NK say she didn’t know him, and I think of the Beatles song, “I thought I knew you, what did I know?” There can be different meanings to what people say, but with NK everybody jumps to the worst possible. In the Discovery documents, all people focus on is the Amber Frey book deal and her net worth. The documents said she searched topics relating to Amber Frey including those two, but they left out the other topics about Amber Frey that she searched. Why? They wanted her to look bad. Same with the creepy giggle. What’s a creepy giggle? Vincent Price?

 

[katydid23]

Yeah I think that /is/ the Watts Grandma? And I just see a grandmother excited to see her grandchildren and its a very sad situation all around to me. I have so many older people in my family that are far too casual and blaise about childproofing for my taste and I can honestly see them brushing things off or not taking allergies that seriously without being outright hatefully trying to endanger a grandkid as I guess some are accusing her of?

Grama Watts doesn't seem all that old. And there is a difference between 'childproofing' and serving foods that are deadly to a toddler to another child, sitting right next to her.

The hatefulness does not seem to be pointed towards the grandchild, but towards the DIL, who had asked specifically for Grama to clear any nuts away from the allergic baby.

 

[Thepoet]

I think CW hates all women. I think all male FAs hate all women. They may have sexual relationships with women and act charming for a time, but their hatred towards women is just below the surface, seething. IMO

Totally agree! Beginning with their mothers?

 

[Layla123]

The thing is, there didn’t seem to be a gradual decline in the relationship according to Shanann or anyone who knew them. (Couldn’t keep his hands off her before she left, etc.) It was like the flip of a light switch. Seemingly normal one day and deadly soon after. I think that’s the reason everyone (including me) is still digging through minutiae in these documents. Trying to make sense out of something completely nonsensical.

You are so right!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Do you think that? I just don’t get it. There had to be a gradual decline in their relationship, but apparently, Shanann didn’t see it. She loved him til the end. I would say CW must have been a great actor, but he wasn’t, we all watched him on the porch.

I don’t think there had to be a gradual decline in the relationship. He does not have the normal emotional bonds that most do, nothing led to him straying other then a girl came onto him. There did not have to be cracks in the marriage for him to stray. He said in one of the interrogations he fell out of love with Shanann because he fell in love with NK and I think it is as simple as that. Your point of CW must have been a great actor for Shan’ann to miss the signs but from the porch interviews we know he was not lends towards he did not have to act prior to NK because things were ok with him and Shan’ann. I dint th8nk there is any way Shanann workday have missed any signs. Prior to NK he wanted Shan'ann, he wanted the baby. He met NK and he no longer wanted them, he is not a complicated guy, conflicted about emotions, he is concerned about his image, that is all.