GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[MsBetsy]

I’m not sure about this. I think his cheating coincided with the physical changes he went through.

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that he had a newfound sense of confidence after his weight loss. I think that around this time, he would have begun his Tinder hookups.

I agree. I think this was the first time he felt any excitement outside his marriage, and he thought he hit the jackpot. He was convinced that he had to have this other women and was willing to do anything to achieve his goal. I would really like to know what his thought processes were and at what point he came to the decision that in order to have his new life he had to completely annihilate the old one. Did he consider it for a while? From the beginning? When Shanann was on her business trip? I think it was before she came home from NC, maybe during the last week he was with her. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

In the docs it does state that no communication from CW to Bolte was found, but does it say anywhere what LE found on Bolte's phone? IIRC he got his 15 minutes of fame on the AB show after he showed them messages back and forth from CW. If they were real......

Page 748.

Bolte showed LE screenshots which were attached to the report (no screenshots in document).

 

[pinkie60]

For sure she was given $1600 a month or $19200 a yr for car from the company. It seems like she was doing really well because of the bonus trips and she was featured in a magazine as one of the top sellers she was so enthusiastic and really loved her job. I think it must have been profitable.
Shanann was such a people person and had so many admirable characteristics. And real talent. The videos she put together really grabbed at a person. She would have excelled at any media job. I think with a degree in communications she would have gone to the moon

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. I think this was the first time he felt any excitement outside his marriage, and he thought he hit the jackpot. He was convinced that he had to have this other women and was willing to do anything to achieve his goal. I would really like to know what his thought processes were and at what point he came to the decision that in order to have his new life he had to completely annihilate the old one. Did he consider it for a while? From the beginning? When Shanann was on her business trip? I think it was before she came home from NC, maybe during the last week he was with her. Imo

I think all of us are incredibly curious as to what was going on inside his head.

We’ll never have these answers.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I’m not sure about this. I think his cheating coincided with the physical changes he went through.

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that he had a newfound sense of confidence after his weight loss. I think that around this time, he would have begun his Tinder hookups.

Maybe he just needed more sex than the 3 times a day he was getting at home! There has to be something pathological in that.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I thought in the docs is said that Nicole's son found the phone in the couch?

He did and then he handed it to CW or maybe to the cops who then handed it to CW to open it but CW said he didn't know the password and then NUA saves the day again. I would love to see his face at that moment. I bet he was super shocked.

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe he just needed more sex than the 3 times a day he was getting at home! There has to be something pathological in that.

Ha! Yes, that does seem hypersexual.

 

[Thinker Belle]

I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for DA Rourke. His tactfulness and class throughout the entirety of this emotionally draining and gruesome case is truly admirable. I especially appreciate how he maintains his focus on the surviving victims and their wishes above sensationalism and his own emotions. I wish his demeanor was the standard for professionals everywhere.

 

[MassGuy]

I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for DA Rourke. His tactfulness and class throughout the entirety of this emotionally draining and gruesome case is truly admirable. I especially appreciate how he maintains his focus on the surviving victims and their wishes above sensationalism and his own emotions. I wish his demeanor was the standard for professionals everywhere.

Absolutely. He handled this beautifully. No grandstanding, just a quiet confidence and firm hand.

He kept Shanann’s family in mind the entire way, and allowed them to make the decision that he himself would have made.

Absolutely rock solid guy.

 

[MsBetsy]

In the docs it does state that no communication from CW to Bolte was found, but does it say anywhere what LE found on Bolte's phone? IIRC he got his 15 minutes of fame on the AB show after he showed them messages back and forth from CW. If they were real......

All I know is there was a picture of text messages that he claimed were from CW on line at one point, but it was said that they were fake. Given that Bolte also claimed he was having an affair with this guy Fern, which he also claimed his mother knew about, I would assume Bolte is not reliable to tell the truth. His mother said she heard him talking to someone he claimed was Fern, but never heard another voice answer. She also said she never saw his car and Bolte claimed he parked it far from the house for some reason. She also claimed never to have actually seen Watts. All she knew was what her son told her. I think Bolte is just an unstable, attention seeking individual and he made up the whole story. Same with the other woman who claimed he was aggressive and tried to choke her. When asked if she could be sure the guy she slept with was Watts, she said, "See, that's the million dollar question!" She slept with so many after drinking all night she can't remember who they were. Ok. Got it.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Mental health issues. Based on texts of his that were made public (not sure if they are anymore), photos of him, claims he made and more...the guy has serious issues.

I agree (if he is lying) he definitely has issues. I’m sorry, I know it shouldn’t be funny and I mean no disrespect to SW, Cece or Bella but it was comical reading the docs about him and trying to make sense of them. Even the ones where they speak to his mom. I’m leaning towards him having serious delusions.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think CW first found the wedding ring on the night stand and gave it to the cop.

And then the phone.

But I don't know for sure.

Her son Nick found it and said it was under two or three pillows. Chris held out his hand and said "thank you" and Nick handed it to LE, who handed it to Chris.

 

[Mellowmelly]

The part where he talks about CW confiding in him about his “difficult” relationship with his father and how his father used to call him a “Nancy boy”. You couldn’t make it up lol.

 

[MassGuy]

All I know is there was a picture of text messages that he claimed were from CW on line at one point, but it was said that they were fake. Given that Bolte also claimed he was having an affair with this guy Fern, which he also claimed his mother knew about, I would assume Bolte is not reliable to tell the truth. His mother said she heard him talking to someone he claimed was Fern, but never heard another voice answer. She also said she never saw his car and Bolte claimed he parked it far from the house for some reason. She also claimed never to have actually seen Watts. All she knew was what her son told her. I think Bolte is just an unstable, attention seeking individual and he made up the whole story. Same with the other woman who claimed he was aggressive and tried to choke her. When asked if she could be sure the guy she slept with was Watts, she said, "See, that's the million dollar question!" She slept with so many after drinking all night she can't remember who they were. Ok. Got it.

I agree. Bolte is in no way reliable. As for that woman who claimed to have had a Tinder hookup with him, I believe that she believes that it was CW.

She is also unreliable though, not because she wasn’t honest, but because she wasn’t absolutely sure. She did seem to accurately describe the location of his tattoos though.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Was the car payment through Le-vel a monthly rental fee?

This is the only mention of the SW’s car payment that I can recall.

PDF page 405 , Discovery page 461

JEREMY said that prior to SHANANN starting with Thrive, she and CHRIS struggled some, financially. JEREMY and JENNIFER said that SHANANN was doing well with Thrive, and that the company paid their car payment, and SHANANN won several trips. They said she was somewhat frugal, and cut coupons and at one point had a part time job at Children’s Place so she could get a discount.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I agree. Bolte is in no way reliable. As for that woman who claimed to have had a Tinder hookup with him, I believe that she believes that it was CW.

She is also unreliable though, not because she wasn’t honest, but because she wasn’t absolutely sure. She did seem to accurately describe the location of his tattoos though.

Photos of his tattoos and body hair were already all over the news and internet by this point.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree (if he is lying) he definitely has issues. I’m sorry, I know it shouldn’t be funny and I mean no disrespect to SW, Cece or Bella but it was comical reading the docs about him and trying to make sense of them. Even the ones where they speak to his mom. I’m leaning towards him having serious delusions.

Yes, it could be that he actually does believe all these interactions took place. I thought that too, when I read about his mom saying she heard him arguing with ( Fern) and told him to get out but it seemed there was actually no one else there. Imo

 

[The Farm]

In the docs it does state that no communication from CW to Bolte was found, but does it say anywhere what LE found on Bolte's phone? IIRC he got his 15 minutes of fame on the AB show after he showed them messages back and forth from CW. If they were real......

There is something in my gut that is telling me that Bolte is a crock. Right from the beginning when we knew nothing I just had that feeling. And still do whether his mother backs him up or not.

 

[scdiv]

Exactly. And caveat: I don't know if he's a sociopath or psychopath. Probably a narcissist.

A particularly intelligent poster though, early on, challenged my notion that he probably was one of those things. She pointed out how he doesn't fit the criteria really for NPD or APD.

I wish we could've explored that more and other contradictions like that which could've pointed away from CW as a stone cold killer, rather than devolving into the baseless, "open-minded" hate-fest against poor Shanann, that I feel the debate about his possible innocence, became.

Because the contradictions are interesting. The questions about what a murderer of his own kids looks like or can look like, and how he did or didn't match, could've been productive and intellectually-driven.

One thing that was interesting to me, not that it necessarily has significance, is that in some of the videos where CW was interacting with his kids, he seemed to have natural protective instincts. Saying, "Cece, sit down so you don't fall." Gently lowering them so they didn't hurt themselves climbing off his back. SW playing games with a matchbox car that Dieter would chase, and CW quickly moving to block it so it wouldn't run into CeCe. Putting them into car seats and strapping them into booster seats. How does one go about all these seemingly natural and instinctive precautions to protect your children from harm, and then be able to take their last breaths from them? It is so hard to reconcile what causes that kind of inhumanity inside of someone.

Ok, I just experienced this today. So weird! I've never been so excited to have a card declined before but I couldn't wait to get on here and tell you guys. Anyway, yesterday around 6pm I bought some shipping supplies on Amazon with my business credit card. I didn't realize it had expired October 31. So this morning around 10am I got an email from Amazon that my card was declined. It shocked me but then I figured out it was only because I needed to change the expiration date. It took about 15 hours from the time I ordered to the time I got the email telling me it was declined so I guess it's possible that Shanann did order hair products much earlier that day or even the day before maybe. It's also a good chance like someone else said it was something she had on an Amazon subscription. Either way, I think it's highly possible she wasn't for sure ordering hair products at 2am that night.

Exactly! Now make sure you change your new card to the default card or remove the expired card, or that's going going to happen every single time you make a purchase and it attempts to charge the expired one! And you don't even realize until a few days later when you get an email that the purchase was declined! (Not speaking from personal experience or anything.... )

I read somewhere in the doc that SW's phone was not dead - it still had like 50% battery life when it was turned back on. And I would find it hard to believe that she would be one to completely close down her phone at night. I still suspect he grabbed her phone from her nightstand, powered it completely down, and hid it so if anything went wrong she could not find it to call for help. MOO

I would suspect that SW did not power off her phone. That seems extremely unusual. Also, Amanda Thayer reported sending SW a text and receiving an auto response that she had never seen before about SW's phone not accepting notifications. Discovery Page 363

Attached below. One of my follow up questions would be if that message would have to be manually added. Because in my opinion, CW would have definitely been the one to change her auto-response to say that, power down, and hide her phone. @PommyMommy if you make a new list of unanswered questions, please add that one! (Not to add to your homework or anything.)

 

[Mellowmelly]

Yes, it could be that he actually does believe all these interactions took place. I thought that too, when I read about his mom saying she heard him arguing with ( Fern) and told him to get out but it seemed there was actually no one else there. Imo

It sounds like he does believe it, and his mom never actually seen Fern there in person. I hope he gets the help he needs if he is delusional. Bless him.