GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #63

[kakadu]

There's a Facebook page called The State of Colorado vs Chris Watts. If you go there it's currently the first video on the page. It's the same Radar Online video but it doesn't block EU viewers.

Got it. Thanks a lot.

 

[violet101]

Am I the only one who can't understand a word of that?

Very hard to hear. I have it on my tv and put the volume all the way up. He mumbles a lot

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks for that. Very helpful. I lean toward second-degree for Shan'ann, followed by first degree for the girls. I think it would be out of character for someone like CW to plot the murder of his (presumably beloved) children in order to punish SW. I'm not sure why CW would be so angry with SW to punish her in that way. SW seemed earnest in her attempts to save the marriage, and there were no texts of threats or other potential motives for such an anger by CW toward her. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like CW thought through his crime at all. Anyway you slice it, all suspicion would fall on him almost immediately. While he is obviously no genius, I would think any forethought would have presented only one outcome: his getting busted. I suspect there may have been fantasies of eliminating his 'problem' with direct action, and then CW came home late and she said something to trigger a fit of anger in Chris. Maybe it was something that directly threatened his continued relationship with NK, which he wanted to preserve at all costs. Whatever it was, he choked her unconscious (doesn't take that long to do), then continued choking her until she was dead. Taking stock--and in a machine-like dissociated state--he made some even worse choices. Knowing SW would never leave her children (the 'disappearing wife' scenario), the only way he could make her disappearance seem even remotely plausible would be to have the girls disappear also, as though SW left with the girls. So he did the unthinkable.

But there is so much he didn't consider, such as leaving her cell phone & shoes behind (how dumb was that), or how and where he disposed of the bodies (obviously the cops would converge on well #319 after a single interview, or after interrogating GPS data from the truck). He didn't even give himself any time to dispose of the bodies properly: if he was thinking about the truck GPS giving away his movements, he had to know there would be risk of co-workers arriving at well 319 while he was up on a tank stuffing a body through that small hole. This murder was simply a no-way out scenario for him from the get-go. Even someone as stupid as Chris Watts must have been able to foresee these things if he had pre-planned the whole thing...!?

Dave

I agree with his dissociated state, but I think he planned to kill them all. Maybe at first it was Shanann only, but imagine him talking to NK about a divorce, and having girls to himself, and asking how would she (NK) like living with him and the girls? And NK could answer, honestly, that she would like to have kids of her own. But in Chris's mind, he wants to be with NK, this is all, so he comes to the conclusion that not only SW, the girls have to go now, too.

 

[Steelhead]

To answer #1: I think he got caught in the act of what he was doing to Shanann by one of the girls and came to the conclusion of the act he so grossly carried out. IMHO - he decided, in that moment, he couldn't have either of the girls repeat what they saw. It's my OWN opinion he did the thing with the doll as a premeditated plan of what he was going to do to Shanann and it was a scare tactic. I think his story was going to be that she left after the "emotional discussion" and even though taking her life was premeditated he didn't think through all of it nearly enough (thank God!).

These are all just MY personal thoughts based on what I've read in the discovery docs.

BBM

And maybe SW reposted the photo as if a cry for help?

 

[mrjitty]

I may very well have missed some things, but I'm not seeing her slamming Shanann so much? In the interview she seemed to be just telling police what Chris had told her about the marriage. The only thing that jumps out to me was her emphasizing that they were living well above their means, which I think some people take as an attack on Shanann, but I think it's a fair assessment of their finances.

Not slamming - more just lacking in empathy.

 

[gitana1]

Thanks for that. Very helpful. I lean toward second-degree for Shan'ann, followed by first degree for the girls. I think it would be out of character for someone like CW to plot the murder of his (presumably beloved) children in order to punish SW. I'm not sure why CW would be so angry with SW to punish her in that way. SW seemed earnest in her attempts to save the marriage, and there were no texts of threats or other potential motives for such an anger by CW toward her. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like CW thought through his crime at all. Anyway you slice it, all suspicion would fall on him almost immediately. While he is obviously no genius, I would think any forethought would have presented only one outcome: his getting busted. I suspect there may have been fantasies of eliminating his 'problem' with direct action, and then CW came home late and she said something to trigger a fit of anger in Chris. Maybe it was something that directly threatened his continued relationship with NK, which he wanted to preserve at all costs. Whatever it was, he choked her unconscious (doesn't take that long to do), then continued choking her until she was dead. Taking stock--and in a machine-like dissociated state--he made some even worse choices. Knowing SW would never leave her children (the 'disappearing wife' scenario), the only way he could make her disappearance seem even remotely plausible would be to have the girls disappear also, as though SW left with the girls. So he did the unthinkable.

But there is so much he didn't consider, such as leaving her cell phone & shoes behind (how dumb was that), or how and where he disposed of the bodies (obviously the cops would converge on well #319 after a single interview, or after interrogating GPS data from the truck). He didn't even give himself any time to dispose of the bodies properly: if he was thinking about the truck GPS giving away his movements, he had to know there would be risk of co-workers arriving at well 319 while he was up on a tank stuffing a body through that small hole. This murder was simply a no-way out scenario for him from the get-go. Even someone as stupid as Chris Watts must have been able to foresee these things if he had pre-planned the whole thing...!?

Dave

He told SW he would go to counseling, would go on a trip the next weekend with her (that he, IIRC, actually planned to take his girlfriend on) and that he would read a book about marriage she gave him. This was told just a couple days before the murders. At the same time he was frantically obsessing over his new girlfriend. No way was he going to do all those things. So why did he tell SW he would if he didn't know he planned on killing her?

He also told her he would go with her to take Bella to her first day of school that Monday. Yet after that, the Friday before the murders, he told a co-worker HE was going to the CERVI site and would check on it. The Sunday before the murders he again told the co-worker and said the co-worker did not have to go. So on Sunday before Shanann came home, he knew he was not going to be there to drop off Bella at her first day of Kindergarten.

He made sure that he would be the only one at the CERVI site where he disposed of the bodies, but he made sure of that prior to the murders.

He did and said a lot of ludicrous things that made no sense. Things that showed, IMO, that he was cocky about his ability to lie and be believed, as most of these annihilator types are - like casey anthony, scott peterson, chris coleman, neil entwistle, etc. I don't think that shows nothing was pre-planned I think it shows how delusional and manipulative he is.

Like many, I think the delay in the return of his wife threw him. he thought he would have more time to stage. I also think he was shocked and did not anticipate NUA's response. Or anyone's. I think he didn't realize how many people cared about and were concerned for Shanann and how freaked they would be when they couldn't contact her. I think he felt he would have days to stage and feign concern, that no one would be in his house right away and that he would be better able to present a case of her leaving with the kids, than he ultimately did.

Things went wrong. I don't think that negates premeditation.

Finally, his reactions are not typical of second degree murder scenarios from what I've seen over the many years. People who attack in a rage don't calm down as quickly as he did. He was seen very calmly loading his truck after the murders. Like he was throwing out the trash. These were silent murders. We now know unequivocally that the neighbors can and have heard loud, shrieking fights from the house. If it was a sudden rage, why so quiet? And many second degree murderers react by calling 911, whether they lie about what happened or not. They aren't able to quickly and calmly dispose of the bodies. A lot of them confess right away too. Sometimes claiming self defense.

 

[NuttMegg]

Very hard to hear. I have it on my tv and put the volume all the way up. He mumbles a lot

Thanks for posting it, but I don't understand how they themselves understand it unless they have another recorder going for them, one for the public.

 

[gitana1]

Let me preface this comment by saying that all of SW's behaviors/texts etc. were completely healthy, normal, loving, and appropriate as a human being who loved her husband. It shows she was healthy minded - bonded to her family and not willing to just give up because the last 5 weeks had been bad. She was reflective about her own behavior, open to change and completely committed to the new life she was carrying.

That being said, I think I think SW's death has a lot to do with her exposing CW for who he truly is in those last few weeks. Not meaning it was HER fault - not that at all. It's that his own twisted brain couldn't handle the truth she was laying out in those messages. That's why he ignored many of them. He's so worried about being perceived a specific way and through her messages and calls she kept exposing him. ....so he had to shut her up...because she was RIGHT and he couldn't deal with that. He somehow convinced her to put the house up and couldn't handle that it wasn't so easy for her to cave on the rest of it. He's a serious chump. No actual balls...he thought she'd just dip because he alludes to the marriage being over. He can't even tell her it is...he wants her to assume it is.

Yes. I think her determination to try to save the marriage was part of why he decided to get rid of her.

 

[gitana1]

Do not believe this has been posted yet...apologies if it has. This is a new longer version of LE at CW's house on Monday, Aug. 13th.

Wow. He lied right off the bat when he said that she didn't typically make the kids' beds. Come on. The whole world knows how meticulous she was!

 

[human]

What was his plan on them missing? Was the car to remain in the garage? Their security would become mysteriously disabled? She ran off with?????

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Am I the only one who can't understand a word of that?

Sounds like a mouth full of marbles to me - lol

 

[erik28]

Wow. He lied right off the bat when he said that she didn't typically make the kids' beds. Come on. The whole world knows how meticulous she was!

He also lied when he said they don't wake up until the kids do. He is also meticulous as well. Many hints dropped throughout the discovery from him, NK, coworkers, not to discount your observation. He jumped out of the gate casually lying a bluestreak.

 

[NuttMegg]

Sounds like a mouth full of marbles to me - lol

I don't think we got a transcript of that in the doc dump (?)

 

[Clement86]

Hi guys, I’ve been out for few days. I needed some time off after the sentence.
Where can i find all of the videos and documents?

Thanks

 

[human]

What was his plan on them missing? Was the car to remain in the garage? Their security would become mysteriously disabled? She ran off with?????

 

[Gardenista]

 

[gitana1]

What I can't wait for is an interview with NUA. I cannot wait to hear from her. Bless her soul.

 

[Mellowmelly]

When I first posted here at WS I stated that I believed the murders were very premeditated. I had to explain what I meant by "very". I meant; that the premeditation was detailed and over a period of time ( days or weeks, not hours). I still believe that it was very premeditated, based on all of the information and evidence that has come out. We now know that CW was under pressure from Shanann to save their relationship. She was a fighter, she loved him, and thought the marriage worth saving. We also know he was under pressure, if not directly by NK, then because of her. Finally we know that time was not his friend, at least in his mind. He had to know that at any time there could be an ultimatum from either Shanann and/or NK. He knew Bella was starting school. He had to know that there would be a small window of opportunity, after the NC trip and before school starting, DR. appointments, gender reveals, etc.

I believe he began planning in his mind; when, where, how, and what do to with the bodies. In his (initial) plan Shanann leaves with the girls, to punish him. No explanation, no trace. I believe this planning started before the NC trip and by the time the trip took place Shanann and the girls had become non-entities to him, just something to be removed, and he became cold and detached. I also believe the "posed doll photo" was part of this plan, but I'm not sure of it's purpose. A warning? A fore-shadowing? I wonder if he meant to send it to himself, making it appear it was sent by SW as a threat to him, but messed up and sent it to SW instead. That would fit with his incompetence.

I believe the night of Shanann's return from Arizona was the time planned for the murders; she came home, they talked, they slept, and after he went to work, she left with the girls. In his mind; perfect. Until, instead of arriving home before 11:00 P.M., Shanann didn't arrive home until almost 2:00 A.M. and he was robbed of three hours and his plan was altered! I continue to believe CW murdered the girls first, after the call to Grandpa, because he didn't want to just murder Shanann, he wanted to punish her. He wanted the girls dead when she came home. The "posed doll" was therefore, fore-shadowing. We now know there were no defensive wounds on Shanann, no bruising, not a mark. Nothing. Also, no marks on CW. Even if he had pinned her on the bed, including her arms, she would have thrashed around, struggling, causing some bruising, biting her tongue or lip, something! Just like Bella did. But there were no marks, nothing. She was sick, physically and emotionally, and probably very tired. I believe CW showed her what he had done, probably said some horrible things, and she collapsed and gave up. Lost all reason to fight. And then he easily murdered her. He then probably spent some time ordering in his mind what needed to be done. He no doubt did some cleaning (the smell of cleaning, later). Maybe took a short nap. And then loaded the truck.

Bella was anxious for her Mother to come home and she kept getting up. The girls were supposedly light sleepers. If Bella was alive when Shanann came home, she would've gotten up and rushed to greet her Mom. That didn't happen. I also don't believe Shanann would have gone to bed without checking on the girls. CW would have known that and used it.

In his mind, the plan probably still seemed intact, just delayed. Everything could continue, as planned. Except, NUA changed everything. God bless her.

What I've read in the discovery and heard from his interviews confirms, for me, that the murders were premeditated well in advance and the girls were murdered first. And it breaks my heart over and over.

I agree with everything you have said, I believe he’s more depraved than people think. He murdered the girls before SW got home, that’s why when she asked for a picture of the girls he sent her one from earlier in the day. And knowing now that it was he who sent the picture of the doll to SW, makes him even more depraved IMO.
What I don’t get is the why, I could be wrong but I thought most family annihilations happened when the wife or husband decided to leave and the partner left behind murdered them as a way of stopping them or controlling them. He was the one who wanted out, I will never understand why.

 

[Herat]

Yes. I think her determination to try to save the marriage was part of why he decided to get rid of her.

I think the pressure of Monday’s Gender Reveal and it’s inevitable posting onto FB was also a factor in the timing.

NK claimed that she didn’t know (?, although I think we know she DID know) and others would know that CW wasn’t ”truly” separated or taking concrete steps to divorce, sell the house, whatever other lies he had made up to please NK.

THAT was going to force issues with SW and with NK.

He had options, but they would take time and money:
1. Go to a counselor
2. Go to a lawyer
3. Confide in a friend and get their advice.
Instead of acting in a reponsible manner, which would involve money, possibly losing NK, or losing face with his co-worders, especially those who knew about the affair, and maybe his family, he looked for instant relief by coming up with this pathetically cruel act

 

[human]

Yes. I think her determination to try to save the marriage was part of why he decided to get rid of her.

I think he did not want to get deeper in debt. School tuition. Wow. Then if they got divorced, him having to take care of an infant while she was off on Thrive. That would cut into his sex time with NK.

Child support for three unless they got 50/50 custody and he sure as heck does not want that.

Clean slate is much easier.