GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #63

[Tippy Lynn]

I don't have the ability to look now, but I believe it was a general summary recap that was paraphrased, not verbatim - but not an actual transcript. I'm having a hard time making out the words in the video as well.

I’ll have to look when I have a minute.

 

[UKslueth2018]

When I first posted here at WS I stated that I believed the murders were very premeditated. I had to explain what I meant by "very". I meant; that the premeditation was detailed and over a period of time ( days or weeks, not hours). I still believe that it was very premeditated, based on all of the information and evidence that has come out. We now know that CW was under pressure from Shanann to save their relationship. She was a fighter, she loved him, and thought the marriage worth saving. We also know he was under pressure, if not directly by NK, then because of her. Finally we know that time was not his friend, at least in his mind. He had to know that at any time there could be an ultimatum from either Shanann and/or NK. He knew Bella was starting school. He had to know that there would be a small window of opportunity, after the NC trip and before school starting, DR. appointments, gender reveals, etc.

I believe he began planning in his mind; when, where, how, and what do to with the bodies. In his (initial) plan Shanann leaves with the girls, to punish him. No explanation, no trace. I believe this planning started before the NC trip and by the time the trip took place Shanann and the girls had become non-entities to him, just something to be removed, and he became cold and detached. I also believe the "posed doll photo" was part of this plan, but I'm not sure of it's purpose. A warning? A fore-shadowing? I wonder if he meant to send it to himself, making it appear it was sent by SW as a threat to him, but messed up and sent it to SW instead. That would fit with his incompetence.

I believe the night of Shanann's return from Arizona was the time planned for the murders; she came home, they talked, they slept, and after he went to work, she left with the girls. In his mind; perfect. Until, instead of arriving home before 11:00 P.M., Shanann didn't arrive home until almost 2:00 A.M. and he was robbed of three hours and his plan was altered! I continue to believe CW murdered the girls first, after the call to Grandpa, because he didn't want to just murder Shanann, he wanted to punish her. He wanted the girls dead when she came home. The "posed doll" was therefore, fore-shadowing. We now know there were no defensive wounds on Shanann, no bruising, not a mark. Nothing. Also, no marks on CW. Even if he had pinned her on the bed, including her arms, she would have thrashed around, struggling, causing some bruising, biting her tongue or lip, something! Just like Bella did. But there were no marks, nothing. She was sick, physically and emotionally, and probably very tired. I believe CW showed her what he had done, probably said some horrible things, and she collapsed and gave up. Lost all reason to fight. And then he easily murdered her. He then probably spent some time ordering in his mind what needed to be done. He no doubt did some cleaning (the smell of cleaning, later). Maybe took a short nap. And then loaded the truck.

Bella was anxious for her Mother to come home and she kept getting up. The girls were supposedly light sleepers. If Bella was alive when Shanann came home, she would've gotten up and rushed to greet her Mom. That didn't happen. I also don't believe Shanann would have gone to bed without checking on the girls. CW would have known that and used it.

In his mind, the plan probably still seemed intact, just delayed. Everything could continue, as planned. Except, NUA changed everything. God bless her.

What I've read in the discovery and heard from his interviews confirms, for me, that the murders were premeditated well in advance and the girls were murdered first. And it breaks my heart over and over.

I wonder whether she went into the room saw them lifeless and he came up behind her and choked her with his elbow. He said he put her back in bed in one of interviews so maybe that's what he meant...

 

[scdiv]

I don’t remember seeing a transcript of the RW interview, but with 1960 pages I could have missed it.
Jmo

Found it - page 329-330. It's a scan so doesn't come up in a word search.

 

[MassGuy]

Somethings I think should be kept in mind;

1. The charges the DA brought against CW, all First Degree/premeditated.

2. The "posed doll photo", by CW, which was done BEFORE the murders! Very ominous.

3. His plans may have been better than we know, because they were altered by the delayed flight and NUA's intervention. He was rushed and had less time.

4. He blamed Shanann (wrongly, but in his mind) for all his problems and for keeping him from NK. We know his mother fed that resentment!

5. There were no wounds, bruising, nothing, on SW, likewise with CW. Impossible in an argument that escalated!

There's more, supported by the records, testimony, etc.

#5 is especially important to me.

In the course of an argument that escalated to violence, there would at the very least be wounds on the bodies of atleast one of them.

Scratches, bruising, something.

She only suffered bruising on her neck from strangulation.

With everything else we know, I think the most likely scenario is that this was a previously planned act of murder.

She never saw it coming.

 

[wilsodh]

He told SW he would go to counseling, would go on a trip the next weekend with her (that he, IIRC, actually planned to take his girlfriend on) and that he would read a book about marriage she gave him. This was told just a couple days before the murders. At the same time he was frantically obsessing over his new girlfriend. No way was he going to do all those things. So why did he tell SW he would if he didn't know he planned on killing her?

He also told her he would go with her to take Bella to her first day of school that Monday. Yet after that, the Friday before the murders, he told a co-worker HE was going to the CERVI site and would check on it. The Sunday before the murders he again told the co-worker and said the co-worker did not have to go. So on Sunday before Shanann came home, he knew he was not going to be there to drop off Bella at her first day of Kindergarten.

He made sure that he would be the only one at the CERVI site where he disposed of the bodies, but he made sure of that prior to the murders.

He did and said a lot of ludicrous things that made no sense. Things that showed, IMO, that he was cocky about his ability to lie and be believed, as most of these annihilator types are - like casey anthony, scott peterson, chris coleman, neil entwistle, etc. I don't think that shows nothing was pre-planned I think it shows how delusional and manipulative he is.

Like many, I think the delay in the return of his wife threw him. he thought he would have more time to stage. I also think he was shocked and did not anticipate NUA's response. Or anyone's. I think he didn't realize how many people cared about and were concerned for Shanann and how freaked they would be when they couldn't contact her. I think he felt he would have days to stage and feign concern, that no one would be in his house right away and that he would be better able to present a case of her leaving with the kids, than he ultimately did.

Things went wrong. I don't think that negates premeditation.

Finally, his reactions are not typical of second degree murder scenarios from what I've seen over the many years. People who attack in a rage don't calm down as quickly as he did. He was seen very calmly loading his truck after the murders. Like he was throwing out the trash. These were silent murders. We now know unequivocally that the neighbors can and have heard loud, shrieking fights from the house. If it was a sudden rage, why so quiet? And many second degree murderers react by calling 911, whether they lie about what happened or not. They aren't able to quickly and calmly dispose of the bodies. A lot of them confess right away too. Sometimes claiming self defense.

Very helpful post, thanks. Some good points here, including some details I wasn't aware of. The delay of CWs arrival helps explain the carelessness of the staging. What is amazing to me is that it would seem obvious even under some time pressure that CW's cell phone, shoes, and other items supportive of a voluntary departure from the home would have been attended to. With even some moderately competent fore-planning, one would think he would never have forgotten these items of the staging! His choice of burial sites is mystifying unless he was aware of the truck GPS system and its ability to track his movements. It wouldn't be suspicious if the GPS indicated he went to site 319 (as planned). On the other hand, he telegraphed his intention to visit the site to co-workers, and surely he must have known the police would be interested in his movements and would search that area! CW's body wasn't even properly hidden. Perhaps he simply ran out of time....

Is the general hypothesis that the girls were dead before CW arrived because he was already committed to the crime despite her unexpected late arrival and therefore had no choice but to kill her despite the time crunch?

Dave

 

[curiouschat]

I can't make out all of the RW interview either, but I'm pretty sure it's from before any of the bodies were found or Chris "confessed" to him. I get the feeling he's still thinking she may have gotten mad and run off? It sounds like the version of the whole nut story he heard was that one grandkid got an ice cream out of the freezer, Cece saw it and wanted it and Shanann went off on Grandma Watts screaming that she was trying to kill her kid? (And I don't know what actually happened, and if maybe she was a little extra volatile with pregnancy hormones and a cheating husband and everything else going on). And then would not allow the kids to see those grandparents again at all.

Also there was some story about her forgetting power ranger masks for another grandkid's party and driving 3 hours one way then back again to get them? I don't know. I can see how she may have come off as a little scary intense and perfectionist at times to his family so I feel like giving them some slack for the things they're saying, especially when they weren't looking at the mounds of evidence we are now. I am NOT saying she in any way deserved to be killed for that much less those kids.

 

[Steelhead]

So what do you think Chris had to clean up in the house, that it smelled so strong of chemicals when LE came in?

EVERYTHING! LOL

 

[askedandanswered]

Do not believe this has been posted yet...apologies if it has. This is a new longer version of LE at CW's house on Monday, Aug. 13th.

***edited to add: Thanks for posting!!***

I’m so over hearing about his weight loss, nutrition, macros, blah blah blah. There’s some clothes of his on the floor that they ask about and he’s like “oh I’m giving them away...they’re way too big now”. Why are you not so subtly bragging right now? *major eye roll*

 

[NuttMegg]

Found it - page 329-330. It's a scan so doesn't come up in a word search.

Thanks! I see it there.

The main thing I see there is that he does bash Shanann again.

But what stands out to me (remember this is AFTER the ride from the airport) is that Ronnie says that they are thinking of selling their house and they are getting or talked about getting a separation. Paraphrased.

I think CW told Ronnie that on the way back from the airport.

The text in the doc dump is a summary, not word for word like it would be in the video if he enunciated better.

 

[x_files]

Neither does several slices of greasy pizza. But things change I guess when you murder your entire family.

It seems murder increased his appetite rather than diminished it.

 

[Herat]

If he had put her cell phone, shoes etc in one of the oil tanks, would there be a location signal that LE could have picked up?

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder whether she went into the room saw them lifeless and he came up behind her and choked her with his elbow. He said he put her back in bed in one of interviews so maybe that's what he meant...

I doubt it. I’ve never liked that scenario because it would complicate things for him.

This wasn’t some sadistic act of revenge, it was a purposeful act designed to achieve a goal:

A new life.

I think he attacked her when she was either getting ready for bed, or in bed.

She was the biggest threat to the successful execution of his plan. Therefore, I think he killed her first.

 

[erik28]

Throughout this case I have wondered what remnants of a past life would floor me the most, if my child was missing, and I had to inhabit our house waiting for their return, or in the worst case, that they never returned.

Last night I saw one hint. Our five-year-old has been "sharing" my toothpaste, and apparently is opening it by mouth. As I unscrewed the cap I saw the unmistakable toothmarks. Only hers. If she were gone, I wouldn't know to look for her there, but I would keep that cap forever if I lost her.

That same night I had a hyper-realistic, banal dream that Bella and my daughter were playing in foot-powered cars in a shopping mall type play space. Shan'ann was sitting observing, but part of her view was blocked. CW was sitting several chairs apart looking in a different direction. Every time Bella went out of Shan'ann's view, I walked over and narrated the action. Then I realized who these people were. I told Shan'ann she didn't know me, but that I was so very sorry for what had happened to her.

I've never dreamt about strangers from the news before. I know this is not "sleuthy" but I had nowhere else to share it!

But PS- CW not actively planning on attending Bella's first day of kindergarten is one of the brightest red flags for me on premeditation. I suspect (MOO) he planned on ghosting out of the Rzucek's life quickly after immediately selling the house and anything else he could and playing the victim, claiming his wife left with the children in a parental kidnapping scenario. I don't think he cared about anyone else, "her people" who worried about her, and what they thought happened. I think he planned on never talking to any of them again.

 

[MassGuy]

If he had put her cell phone, shoes etc in one of the oil tanks, would there be a location signal that LE could have picked up?

Only if the phone was still turned on at the site.

Phones only transmit when they are turned on.

 

[x_files]

I’m slowly listening to the NK interview. The part where she cries about the girls, it’s so very odd. Her tone of voice goes suuuper high when she talks about how little they were, it’s exactly the same tone she used in the beginning about CW being sooo cute by being a dad. It set off all kinds of red flags. The crying was mostly high pitched fake moans, to which the DA was unmoved and asked her if she wanted to step out. And she says no and pretty much continues going on about herself - this is so hard on me what’s going to happen to me I won't be able to go into public the public won’t understand that this happened to me oh woe is me what will happen to me. Vomit.

And then she “can’t remember “ the day of the murders which was only couple of days before. Uh huh. Sure, Jan.

It is so contrived. She is so cold about Shannan. She is literally forced by the DA to say her name, and does so with so much distaste. The rest of the time she says “his wife”. She blames everything on Shannan - she took all of CWs money, ignored him, only cared about her phone, kept him from his parents, didn’t tell him about Nutgate. For Shannans job NK says something like “I don’t even know what you’d call that.” And that her house was too nice and had too many nice things in it and she couldn’t have afforded that how, she was obviously living abover her means. NK hated Shannan, even as she was dead in a morgue somewhere. No concern for her, just cold dislike. It’s horrible.

The whole thing is so off, it really seems like NK may have sociopathic tendencies herself.

I agree. She's got her own issues possibly NPD and lack of empathy is one of them!

 

[freyaflies]

Very helpful post, thanks. Some good points here, including some details I wasn't aware of. The delay of CWs arrival helps explain the carelessness of the staging. What is amazing to me is that it would seem obvious even under some time pressure that CW's cell phone, shoes, and other items supportive of a voluntary departure from the home would have been attended to. With even some moderately competent fore-planning, one would think he would never have forgotten these items of the staging! His choice of burial sites is mystifying unless he was aware of the truck GPS system and its ability to track his movements. It wouldn't be suspicious if the GPS indicated he went to site 319 (as planned). On the other hand, he telegraphed his intention to visit the site to co-workers, and surely he must have known the police would be interested in his movements and would search that area! CW's body wasn't even properly hidden. Perhaps he simply ran out of time....

Is the general hypothesis that the girls were dead before CW arrived because he was already committed to the crime despite her unexpected late arrival and therefore had no choice but to kill her despite the time crunch?

Dave

I think you switched up CW and SW. CW wasn't entirely careless - remember he made plans to be alone at the oil tanks in advance, he was moving and washing sheets at odd hours possibly to hide or prepare for hiding evidence, he pulled the bed of his truck into the garage for privacy . . . I could go on, but his actions do show a lot of planning. Going to work was part of his planning too, a part so important he went even though he hadn't finished his 'work'. He most likely never thought NUA would catch on so early- remember he tried to convince her and the other friend not to call the police.

 

[mrjitty]

Extended dance mix of the security cam

(delete if inappropriate)

 

[Layla123]

She did but deleted it. I’ve found a couple deactivated accounts.

Did you save links? Did you ever find anything on CW?

 

[tmar]

Calm and worry-free Chris Watts picked up breakfast after disposing of wife and daughters' bodies | Daily Mail Online

New video to me. Chris buying a burrito after killing family.

Perhaps, he acts as if nothing happened, so later in investigations, it would seem, it was an ordinary day for him.
However, as things back fired, and he was found to have disposed of the bodies, we can see his evil mind at work here.
But, we have found, he isn't smart at all, and maybe, 'just another day', not thinking ahead, to cover his tracks.

 

[Ellamental]

So what do you think Chris had to clean up in the house, that it smelled so strong of chemicals when LE came in?

You have me thinking, what if ... this is where NK comes in (cue du-du-DUHHHHHH music). Did she help him clean up whatever it was ?!?! Many of us think she is withholding and knows more. This is just my own thought and was not stated anywhere. Yet.