GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[PommyMommy]

I think the camera is motion activated and you don't have to ring the bell. The doorbell camera captured SW coming home and entering the front door when NAU dropped her off. It was part of the evidence they were planning to use that showed SW was walking straight and not drunk when she came home. I have yet to see this doorbell video, however. Has anyone seen the doorbell videos?

I haven't seen the doorbell videos, but there is a body cam video that includes CW showing officers where the doorbell camera detects motion. He walked out the front door and stopped on the walkway to point out approximately where that is. I'm sorry I can't link it - I've gotten lost in the videos! MOO

 

[mrjitty]

He is one of those narcissists who is an angel on the street and a devil at home. I think we know that from the neighbour.

I also think Shan'nan was the subject of domestic abuse perhaps not physical, but abuse nonetheless. Her declarations of love for him reminded me of the cycle of violence, almost like she needed to to keep him calm and engaged, she was sensitive to his needs. I just wish she hadn't chosen him, his behaviour would have affected the children, but I sense Shan'ann mediated this in some way.

I agree with all this. I think an emotional abuser.

Mr Jitty I recognise you from the MK forum.

Hey mate! I miss that place a lot

 

[mrjitty]

I'm convinced this is a disorder that perpetuates itself through a parent who unknowingly selects one child as more special than the others and alternately elevates and degrades that child. This family pattern is then "transmitted" to the children of this now-grown child.

I have experienced something a bit like this.

The early warning sign is when the mother gets agitated - a signal that narc and mother are working on each other. Then narc starts causing trouble until there is a major drama. Then comes a feuding phase, and finally a new lovey phase when everything appears back to normal

The cycle repeated each year.

 

[mrjitty]

We have told you, over and over and over again. He has some type of defect like the other FA’s where they don’t form the same enotional bonds and attachments like other people. Chris Coleman strangled his 9 and 12 year old boys and his wife.

It's amazing how similar the Coleman case is actually.

Coleman had a better idea for the staging but messed up the timing.

Incidentally:

This is often why smarter murderers hide the bodies to obscure the forensics - e.g dump the body in water.

 

[Jennifer17]

I agree with all this. I think an emotional abuser.



Hey mate! I miss that place a lot

Yes. Giving her and his children the silent treatment when she or a two year old upset him. I know it well.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, I must have lived a sheltered life.

I don't even know if it's true. I heard it on Oprah about 20 years ago.

 

[Seattle1]

• RZUCEK said that one day SHANANN was on the phone and the girls were screaming for her, even though they could see her. RZUCEK said that the girls wanted to be sure their mom was close by them. RZUCEK said he made a comment to CHRIS about him being chopped liver. (Discovery p.685)
  
  RZUCEK said that when he had them in the airport, the girls ran away from him and when he caught up to them BELLA was screaming at the top of her lungs. RZUCEK said looking back, it is possible that CHRIS got tired of the girls crying for their mother instead of him and he resented that. (Discovery p 681)

-- I completely disagree with your assessment that the girls wanted nothing to do with CW when he was in NC based on a single referenced comment from brother Frankie, and another from Grandfather Rzucek that had nothing to do with NC! It's not uncommon for children to react by screaming and/or running off in the airport when both parents leave for holiday, and Grandparent left alone to care for them. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Yes. Giving her and his children the silent treatment when she or a two year old upset him. I know it well.

Yes.

In fact what sets him apart is that the Narc is frequently a savvy emotional manipulator and very attuned to others emotions and how to ingratiate during the hoovering phase. Watts is an emotional child - you can see that from his messages. I kind of expected we would find very manipulative and blamey content but there is none of that.

So he is like a Narc lacking the one best weapon Narcs have.

Looks like his only modes are anger displays (likely a learnt behaviour) and "clocked out" - where he doesn't bother to pretend to engage

 

[Layla123]

-- I completely disagree with your assessment that the girls wanted nothing to do with CW when he was in NC based on a single comment from brother Frankie, and another ,from Grandfather Rzucek. It's not uncommon for children to react by screaming and/or running off in the airport when both parents leave for holiday, and Grandparent left alone to care for them. MOO

Ok. Well, there’s the can’t facetime mommy situation when SW is out of town, and also, I saw that sour puss photo of CW with his family at the beach. Put it all together and it’s red flag for me, but you’re welcome to disagree.

 

[Lilibet]

I don’t get it! I try, and I try, and I try. That’s why I’m still here at WS. Somebody, please tell me WHY CW did this in a way that makes sense! Help me understand! Those precious, adorable, innocent little girls. How could he? CW has to have some kind of psychological make up like none of us has ever seen, so we have no frame of reference for understanding. I imagine if they took one of those Dr. Phil type brain scans of CW’s brain, he would have black spots all over it.

Layla you wrote this several pages ago so maybe someone was able to explain why CW could do what he did to his precious little girls so that you could understand. I hope they didn’t because you really don’t want to understand how someone is capable of that. None of us wants to have the kind of mind that can get inside his mind to see what made him turn against his beautiful family and act with such depravity.

Speaking of depravity, I visited the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC last month. Seeing displays about the rise of Hitler, I can understand intellectually the historical and economic and political forces that led to his gaining power. I understand the fear and prejudice on the part of the people that acquiesced to the attempted obliteration of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, political dissidents and Jehovah’s Witnesses. While I may be able to see the thought process of Hitler and his followers (and disagree completely), I can never grasp the actions they took. There’s nothing to “understand.” It was evil, depraved.

So even if we can list all the things that influenced CW to want to end his marriage and live it up with NK, we can never understand what he did. It was evil, depraved. Do you really want to understand evil? I don’t. It’s enough to recognize it, see it coming and avoid it. In CW’s case, even that wasn’t possible.

 

[MassGuy]

It's amazing how similar the Coleman case is actually.

Coleman had a better idea for the staging but messed up the timing.

Incidentally:

This is often why smarter murderers hide the bodies to obscure the forensics - e.g dump the body in water.

Coleman thought he was smarter, but his staging was so elaborate that even if he got it right, it wouldn’t have fooled anyone.

The story he was trying to sell, is one that simply doesn’t happen.

Much like the scenario that CW was trying to sell.

Peterson was probably the smartest of the bunch in regards to actually carrying out the crime.

Of course, he made countless mistakes as well.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know people cheat. But putting the security of ones own children to be vulnerable (ie getting involved) seems irresponsible and self centered to me. Cheating on ones spouse is one thing.....cheating your kids out of stability is another.
Men who cheat on their pregnant wives imo is a different species.

I think most would agree with that. I would like to think it's a small percentage who don't have morals. Yet Shanann never expected it from Chris. When she asked him he said something like how can you even think of that?

 

[MCDRAW]

BBM. He had no hope of growing up normally in that family IMO. His mother and sister seem emotionally immature to me. The nut episode was an immature power play to me.

It went way beyond a power play to me. Until I had a child, that food could make deathly ill, I couldn't understand either. So I get it that they didn't believe Shanann about the nut allergy or thought just a little wouldn't hurt them. At the same time, they had to have heard at one time or another someone dying from nuts. I have read about it countless times. I believe with all the information that we have about his family, both by their words and the words of others, they didn't care enough about those children to really care what happened to them. All they cared about was proving Shanann wrong. They could have easily caused the death of those children. While I agree it was a power play, it was done maliciously and without care for those children. Evil. I honestly, can not imagine hating someone so much that I would intentionally try to hurt my grandchildren or take a chance on killing them. Now that Shanann is out of the picture, Jamie's husband better watch out. These type of people have to have a common enemy to gang up on. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes.

In fact what sets him apart is that the Narc is frequently a savvy emotional manipulator and very attuned to others emotions and how to ingratiate during the hoovering phase. Watts is an emotional child - you can see that from his messages. I kind of expected we would find very manipulative and blamey content but there is none of that.

So he is like a Narc lacking the one best weapon Narcs have.
b
Looks like his only modes are anger displays (likely a learnt behaviour) and "clocked out" - where he doesn't bother to pretend to engage

I am not sure that he even is a narc. Every shallow self obsessed person is not necessarily a narcissist. I think he is just a low intellect man who thought that his lies would be believed. Because he is of low, very low intellect.

 

[MCDRAW]

Well, the videos were for sales. They didn't have much to do with real life. They were «selling» the lifestyle of their beautiful family.

I keep seeing people say that. The product was for healthy eating. I can't see how lifestyle has anything to do with it. I have friends that sell this product, they portray their family as it is. I think Shanann really believed what she was posting. I think she wanted to see the best in people, so she did.

 

[mrjitty]

Related to this short time window - my GOD. He left the sheet, a garbage bag, a RAKE embedded in the ground, what else? AND THEN acted rather normal around the incoming coworkers.

I went down the rabbit hole on the CERVI 319 timings and it is not possible to completely reconstruct as not all the co-worker interviews were interviewed, and also Watts lied when he said colleagues were onsite by 7.15-7.30

Nevertheless the interview with McCoy gives some kind of approx framework

By driving straight to 319, Watts got the jump on McCoy & the others who first drove to the office.

Nevertheless he was not expecting 3 colleagues to come by. He had to speed up significantly when he realised they were coming out.

 

[Layla123]

-- I completely disagree with your assessment that the girls wanted nothing to do with CW when he was in NC based on a single referenced comment from brother Frankie, and another from Grandfather Rzucek that had nothing to do with NC! It's not uncommon for children to react by screaming and/or running off in the airport when both parents leave for holiday, and Grandparent left alone to care for them. MOO

I just realized when I copied Frank Rzucek’s quote, I left a sentence out. This is the full quotation:
“RZUCEK said that when he had them in the airport, the girls ran away from him and when he caught up to them BELLA was screaming at the top of her lungs. RZUCEK said that when they went back to the house, the girls did the same thing to CHRIS. RZUCEK said looking back, it is possible that CHRIS got tired of the girls crying for their mother instead of him and he resented that.”

 

[MCDRAW]

What is your source for this? From what I recall - both girls were over excited to see and greet CW that they even penetrated security at the NC airport. TIA

I read in Frank's letter that Chris was yelling more at the kids the last week and that Chris didn't like that the girls wanted their Papa instead of him.

 

[WildWest]

I wish I could see what you guys do.

It's the video of him loading his truck in the morning, but in slow motion. One trip he made it really does look like he is dragging something heavy. I can slow it down to .25 speed, but the facebook video is almost frame by frame speed. Why can't you see it @tmar ? No facebook?

Here is the video on youtube from Denver7 if it helps, but still not frame by frame. I *think* it may have been about 2:40. Maybe someone can chime in on.

 

[mrjitty]

I am not sure that he even is a narc. Every shallow self obsessed person is not necessarily a narcissist. I think he is just a low intellect man who thought that his lies would be believed. Because he is of low, very low intellect.

I've argued before that I think he is missing a number of the key attributes of NPD under the Cluster B disorders.

He lacks the emotional skill set for exploitation and does not appear to be motivated by the power/success fantasies

A sociopath will simply see something they want, and trample on anyone to get it.

My own personal sociopath is heavily narc and an extreme emotional manipulator so it is subtly different

They see something they want - and with them it often around financial things that have big value but that it is not the goal in itself. They use that thing to manipulate and oppress their targets and increase status/power

I don't get the feeling Watts was seeking to ultimately dominate SW

So yeah - I agree everything is about himself because he likely does not truly perceive others peoples emotions - but i don't think this is what makes him tick.