GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[mrjitty]

Sure, as a parent, going to non-stop bday parties at that age is torture because you have to interact with all the other parents. He’d already checked out though. I wonder if we will ever hear anything from other party attendees about his demeanor that day.

he didn't even let them stay long ...

 

[Gecko100]

Mr Jitty and others, do you not see this guy as a covert narcissist? They are very sneaky and sly...
The MK forum was both sad and stimulating.

 

[mrjitty]

Narcissists can't admit they are wrong because it would destroy their fragile fantasy persona. Despite their 'overthetopness' bragging etc. they actually have very weak ego strengths.

This was a fascinating experience for me first hand.

The Narc was caught out having done something behind my back. It was a group situation. So their reaction was to admit if happened but to justify it because it was all my fault. (LOL)

BUT

A couple of weeks later when I referenced what had happened, they denied that it happened at all and said they were always transparent!

Yet we all heard them admit it only 2 weeks previously.

I was stunned.

Yet as you say, they had already created a new narrative of the past, with their devious actions airbrushed out.

 

[mrjitty]

Mr Jitty and others, do you not see this guy as a covert narcissist? They are very sneaky and sly...
The MK forum was both sad and stimulating.

I said a few threads back that I don't find the labels helpful as I am not a professional.

I find it more helpful to approach it in terms of observable behaviours and patterns.

To me Watts is not driven by the narc style fantasies of success/power etc

 

[katydid23]

I am baffled at how many times I see people say CW looked like a loving father in SW's videos. He looked like their father, yes, and a caretaker, but I feel a lack of warmth? A lack of connection?

I noticed the most contact he shared with them was through rough housing or being carried. I see Shanann in many instances hugging the children tight, holding their hands, cuddling them, nuzzling them. I can feel the connection much more in their interactions.

CW's interactions feel a lot more hollow to me. I was observing my husband with our toddler today and their sweet little moments together and I never saw that same kind of tenderness in any videos of CW. Even looking at pics of SW's dad and brother with the kids, I sense more of a bond there.

Of course I have a different perspective of CW after knowing what he's done, but it was just something I've been thinking about. I see someone who went through the motions. I see a narcissist who loved the kids when they fed his ego but discarded them when they bruised his ego.

His relationships are shallow and about what they make him feel. He wants mirrors to reflect his greatness back at him. No one is a complex human to him. Maybe I'm being over analytical, but even in his cards to NK, he is talking about the feelings she gives him. He doesn't ever really compliment her as a person.

Just some pondering.

I totally agree with you. Even when he is supposedly playing with them, he seems disconnected and distant. Like he is playing the part, but not really emotionally connected. He seems awkward in some videos, like he is out of place.

I watched tapes of him, and have many tapes of my son with his 3 yr old, that my DIL sends to us. Ans I can clearly see the difference. My son truly engages with his girl, and you can sense their connection and their bond. He does not stand by, stiffly and awkwardly, while playing with her. Maybe it is hindsight, but it seems real to me.

 

[katydid23]

I said a few threads back that I don't find the labels helpful as I am not a professional.

I find it more helpful to approach it in terms of observable behaviours and patterns.

To me Watts is not driven by the narc style fantasies of success/power etc

I agree, mrjitty. He seems to be missing some of the narcx characteristics. The 2 that I knew, were both very egotistic and super self confident. They thought they were better than everyone else, in so many ways.

And I don't really get that from CW. Maybe towards the end, when he got 'buff' and fit, his ego ballooned. But even then, he seems more passive and lacks the confidence I would expect to see.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Some of us have a harder time wrapping our heads around this. It is so inconceivable to me that he could do this to his little girls. A wife I can understand. Little children? Not yet for me.

I don’t understand it but I understand that it does happen because these individuals have some type of defect that allows murdering their children to be an option. Some type of defect that prevents them from having the emotional connection to their children that prevents the rest of us from harming them. A defect that allows them to view them as objects to be disposed of when they no longer want them. There will never be a moment that makes me say now I understand why he chose that option or what led to that night because I don’t think that moment or type of understanding exists.

 

[Gardenista]

Saw an interesting theory on FB re: the neighbors security camera. Did CW really have tools stolen from his truck? Did he lie about that so he could look at neighbor's security camera to view exactly would be seen?

 

[mrjitty]

Mr Jitty and others, do you not see this guy as a covert narcissist? They are very sneaky and sly...
The MK forum was both sad and stimulating.

Would you mind posting a summary of how you see his behaviour, based on what we know about the case?

I'd be quite interested in your views.

We really have so much Gonzo video of him - so its kind of a unique opportunity here

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I agree with you 100% on that. But, I was thinking that if she has a 4Runner, she would be making the call hands-free through her car stereo system, which would link to her phone via Bluetooth. She could even use voice commands or other short cuts to dial for her, which would be no different than having a conversation with a passenger. (Likewise with text messages. She can also have the stereo sytem read text message contents to her while she is driving.)

jmo

Most who don’t have these features still use their phone.

 

[Curious.1]

I have someone in my life uncomfortably similar to CW. Someone mentioned that he let his in-laws talk to the kids the night they likely died. I'm thinking that CW possibly liked his in-laws more than his actual parents. I've seen how little this type of person can care about their parents, but how much better they can relate to other relatives who are, frankly, more normal. CW's home life seems to have been very weird growing up, especially his mom insisting he had friends but actually she contacted them more than he did??! And his dad, well no need to go further after hearing his interview. Whereas his in-laws lived with him at one point for an extended period and there are no complaints in any of the documents about this. I think he really liked them and I think it was mutual as they didn't want him to get the death penalty, although it must be hard not to hate him now. Anyhow, I'm wondering if the last videocall to Shanann's parents was something he gave them, knowing that these girls were soon going to die. He could have done the same for his parents but didn't bother, and at this point, it wouldn't have mattered at all as Shanann likely wouldn't have found out.

 

[NuttMegg]

I’ve seen you mention “cheap construction “ a couple of times. Why do you say that? Looks like a nicer than Average tract home in middle class USA. Just curious. I believe you are non-American, so I’m always intrigued to see how Us Americans are viewed by others.

Early on, I thought the house/neighborhood must have been upper class but then realized housing was expensive out there, so it’s not like they had the choice of a nice house in a good school district for $200k. But they look like nice homes to me.

Someone is making big bucks on those houses.

 

[mtnlites]

Trying to catch up on here...

Re: trying to "understand" how something like this could happen...

We can only look at this in terms of the various psychological issues that many of these FAs have in common. There will never be that "eureka"moment that makes all the pieces fit, but (most of us anyway) are not Family Annihilators. We logically know that if we want out of a marriage then we can file for divorce-but FAs don't apply that logic. They have an entirely different way of looking at life. As has been said repeatedly in the past, CW probably wasn't even viewing his wife and kids as people anymore; they were simply objects that he once had a use for but no longer needed. Not only were they not useful now, but they were in his way. So we got rid of them.

SW didn't "make him angry." She didn't do anything at ALL and neither did the kids. Anger would mean passion and imply some kind of feelings, and by the time CW killed his family, I doubt he was feeling anything at all for them, except perhaps annoyance.

WE can't wrap our heads around this because our brains simply don't work the same way. We look at our kids and see little people we love, human beings we want to protect. CW was past that. IMO he was able to compartmentalize to the point where he was easily able to flip a switch and turn that part of his life off and subsequently move it to the recycle bin. Yes, he could have just left them, could have filed for divorce, but to do that would mean that they were still out there, living lives without him. HE didn't need them anymore, therefore they needed to disappear. It may not have even been about alimony or child support; it was probably much simpler than that: if he shut the door on that life and moved on, he'd never completely be free since reminders of that life would still exist.

He literally needed to annihilate the part of his life that was no longer important or useful to him.

We don't get it because we look at the kids and see sweet little girls, at SW and we see a beautiful, vibrant woman. All of them with vast amounts of potential and lives ahead of them. CW looked at them and probably saw...nothing.

 

[Ellamental]

And the longer the wait, the less likely they could determine cause of death. His disgusting story might have stood. A major motive for those amazing CBI interrogators prying out a partial confession was to get to those bodies asap, in order to get more information. I suspect that shallow grave was temporary, or that he planned to burn it.

I was thinking this as well; in the videos from the neighbor's cam he can be seen loading a gas can in the bed of his truck on the passenger side. I have my suspicious doubts he would need that as part of his standard workday, knowing how flammable those tanks really are. MOO.

 

[Trudie]

I’d really like to know the truth regarding the length of the relationship between CW-NK. I don’t buy into it being new.

 

[JEM1975]

I’ve seen you mention “cheap construction “ a couple of times. Why do you say that? Looks like a nicer than Average tract home in middle class USA. Just curious. I believe you are non-American, so I’m always intrigued to see how Us Americans are viewed by others.

Early on, I thought the house/neighborhood must have been upper class but then realized housing was expensive out there, so it’s not like they had the choice of a nice house in a good school district for $200k. But they look like nice homes to me.

They are very nice homes and I would consider it upper middle class

 

[Curious.1]

They are very nice homes and I would consider it upper middle class

I agree. I think there are cultural differences - where I am, that would be a very, very wealthy person's house. But then again I'd also consider an Audi to be a (wealthy person's) family car whereas apparently it isn't in the US - SUVs or vans seem more popular?

 

[Trudie]

There is a 5 minute video on the State of Colorado vs Chris Watts facebook page that i have not seen yet. It is the neighbor talking to the police, NUA and her son. In it he said that when SW was in NC there were many times that both vehicles the Watt's drove were parked on the street. He said the Lexus was parked down the road for several days in a row. Makes me think that NK was parked in the garage and they played house while his family was in NC.

I think so too. I truly feel CW-NKs relationship soared to a new level during SWs absence. Also, something prompted CW to murder SW that night. I don’t mean something SW did. If he had planned the demise of his family, he didn’t necessarily need to do it that night/morn.
I wonder if he was ultra paranoid S would be able to tell another woman had been in the house.
His urgency to kill caused many stupid mistakes, thankfully.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Yeah, I fear that he wasn’t nice to them in those final few days.

Around others he would have kept up appearances, but he had no such incentive when he was alone with them.

Which is most probably why Bella especially wanted nothing to do with him when he was visiting SW's parents, her father noticed, and he wouldn't let SW facetime with them so there wouldn't be a "cryfest"...those poor babies

 

[AbbyG]

I did notice he said they scream at eachother and it didn't sound one sided. You don't believe him? I agree that part sounds unlike anything we have heard from anyone else about the couple.
However, NK staying at the house a few nights would explain her uncertainty regarding how she entered the house. She was trying to keep her lies straight.

The neighbor said they scream but "he" gets crazy, not "they" get crazy. He said he though Shannan left to get away from "the situation." I think he was clear that CW alone was the one who got "crazy."