GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[Thepoet]

Narcissists/sociopaths and abusers don't come from nowhere. Sometimes how those pieces came together for a certain perp is a bit of a mystery. NOT HERE.



Layla123, I beg you to read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. I think everything will become much clearer. These people really do believe they are so much smarter than everyone else, or so charming, or they just simply have so little concern with consequences, that they just assume they will get away with everything. The sad part is that sometimes actually they do! Their brains work totally different from normal people. I get how hard it is for normal people to wrap their heads around this, I do: I stayed with my abusive sociopath ex-husband for 8 years because I refused to believe that he could really have no compassion or empathy. I truly believed that everyone has good in them that could be drawn out if you just tried hard enough. (I even gave him the exact same book SW gave CW.) TO THIS DAY and even after going to jail and now being on probation for DV my ex still feels no empathy or compassion or true remorse for any of his cruel behavior. Even toward his own children! And he still blames everyone but himself for his problems and thinks there is nothing wrong with him.

We will all be so much safer once we admit these people do exist and will not change, and that we cannot "get through" to them and make them feel empathy or compassion or remorse no matter how good and kind and loving we are. We cannot give them the benefit of the doubt. Their brains are different. They are predators, even if they never become physically violent. We cannot make them stop being predatory with love or reason. We can only protect ourselves by refusing to engage with them! Knowledge is power. Knowledge is protection. Spread the word and protect yourselves and everyone you love.

Very well said. Bravo! Glad you got away, stay safe.

 

[mrjitty]

Narcissists/sociopaths and abusers don't come from nowhere. Sometimes how those pieces came together for a certain perp is a bit of a mystery. NOT HERE.



Layla123, I beg you to read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. I think everything will become much clearer. These people really do believe they are so much smarter than everyone else, or so charming, or they just simply have so little concern with consequences, that they just assume they will get away with everything. The sad part is that sometimes actually they do! Their brains work totally different from normal people. I get how hard it is for normal people to wrap their heads around this, I do: I stayed with my abusive sociopath ex-husband for 8 years because I refused to believe that he could really have no compassion or empathy. I truly believed that everyone has good in them that could be drawn out if you just tried hard enough. (I even gave him the exact same book SW gave CW.) TO THIS DAY and even after going to jail and now being on probation for DV my ex still feels no empathy or compassion or true remorse for any of his cruel behavior. Even toward his own children! And he still blames everyone but himself for his problems and thinks there is nothing wrong with him.

We will all be so much safer once we admit these people do exist and will not change, and that we cannot "get through" to them and make them feel empathy or compassion or remorse no matter how good and kind and loving we are. We cannot give them the benefit of the doubt. Their brains are different. They are predators, even if they never become physically violent. We cannot make them stop being predatory with love or reason. We can only protect ourselves by refusing to engage with them! Knowledge is power. Knowledge is protection. Spread the word and protect yourselves and everyone you love.

The problem I have had is that because my sociopath is so popular and manipulative, few will believe me about his true abusive nature.

Indeed the only people who believe it are the ones I confided in down the years when i sought support. Indeed one of those people had their own sociopath and gave me a lot of advice.

Everyone else believes that only if we could sit down and talk about everything it could be worked out.

But that is the last thing I can do because that simply allows sociopath to do emotional hoovering back into my life!

 

[PommyMommy]

“20/20” HAS FIRST INTERVIEW WITH PARENTS OF SHANANN WATTS AFTER HER HUSBAND, CHRIS WATTS, PLED GUILTY TO MURDERING SHANANN AND THEIR TWO YOUNG DAUGHTERS
“20/20” features an exclusive interview with Frank and Sandra Rzucek, Shanann Watts’ parents

Christopher Watts was sentenced to life in prison without parole for murdering his pregnant wife, Shanann, and young daughters Bella and Celeste in Colorado. “20/20” Co-anchor Amy Robach sits down for the first interview with Shanann’s parents, Frank and Sandra Rzucek, who open up about their daughter, granddaughters and their grief. The pair also discusses their relationship with Chris and the shocking crime that devastated their family. The hour features exclusive interviews with neighbor Nathan Trinastich and Shanann’s friends Cassandra Rosenberg, and Cristina Meacham. “20/20” airs on Friday, December 7 (10:00 – 11:00 p.m. ET) on ABC.

“20/20” includes interviews with Nickole Atkinson, Shanann’s friend who first reported her missing; Michael Rourke, Weld County District Attorney; and John Camper, director of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. The hour also features new videos, documents, photos and texts from the case, coupled with newly released police evidence, in an attempt to explore the question of why Chris committed the murders.

 

[Thepoet]

Here we go again...today's version of Inmate Watts' location.

Murderer Chris Watts Transferred To Wisconsin Prison Notorious For Serial Killers
Wife and child killer Chris Watts has been transferred to the infamous Dodge Correctional Institution in Waupun, Wisconsin — where he will rot behind bars with other notorious murderers, RadarOnline.com can exclusively report.

Now, he will serve five life sentences alongside Chris Coleman, an Illinois man who was convicted of crimes eerily similar to those of Watts. The former bodyguard to televangelist Joyce Meyer is serving a life sentence for killing his wife and two children to run off with his mistress.

Disturbing serial killer Ed Gein — who was the inspiration for Psychocharacter Norman Bates — also was an inmate at DCI before his 1984 death.

Though the Wisconsin Department of Corrections would not confirm or deny Watts was transferred to DCI, the killer is included on the prison’s commissary listing.

Well done (again! )! Thanks. I wonder if they'll let CW and Coleman get together, maybe for some rough and tumble? Seriously, bad prison and very cold winters!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Going on 9 years ago, I had an internship at WCADF, where drew Peterson was held whilst awaiting trial for murder. I was finishing up post-grad studies and one of my first weeks there, noticed Drew angrily gesturing to the man above and across from his cell (he was kept in the medical unit, a circular-type pod where you’re under constant surveillance.) Chatting with a guard (my role was peripheral to hers) she mentioned his rage tantrum was regarding “the poo-caso” an inmate who, like Picasso, made artwork. Except his was with poop. All over the walls of his cell.

Drew P. Was convinced the guards and prison hierarchy had it out for him and had intentionally placed him in a cell facing the artist, to annoy him.

Drew had a TV directly above him, a nicely placed cell. None are pleasant, as they are literally fish bowls, and his persecution complex reared it’s head again and again over perceived slights.

Point being, even if CW is NOT treated poorly (like if he’s in isolation as Drew was), these narcissists find tiny inconveniences and annoyances to be a direct insult, they presume everyone is out to get them. So even if CW is happy in a solo cell, locked down 23/1, he will be irritated, IMO, by the tiniest things.

Interesting insight, thank you.

 

[MsBetsy]

The police needs to answer all questions sooner than later. About that call from Frederick, for example. A closed case does not mean a crystal-clear case.

I remember all high-profile cases that remain unclear. They are never closed in people's minds. Several people have been arrested very recently, btw, years after questions were first raised.

True, but we have no indication yet that they haven't found the answers to those questions. They just may not have made it public. They must be aware of it. I don't know how long they have had the information, but I would think if it is that significant they will investigate further and eventually we will here about it.
I would like to know more too, especially about the apparent search from CW's phone about the oxycodone. But I'm assuming LE looked into that and didn't think it was important to the investigation. Imo

 

[x_files]

I have never see a whole entire family like his. Not one of the 4, Cindy, Ronnie, Jamie, Chris, had absolutely any empathy at all.

Psychopathy can run in the family. What are the chances he got a double dose in the genetic department?
I wish the entire Watts family would agree to be interviews with psychologists and have brain scans. Too bad the law cannot make it mandatory.

 

[Thepoet]

“20/20” HAS FIRST INTERVIEW WITH PARENTS OF SHANANN WATTS AFTER HER HUSBAND, CHRIS WATTS, PLED GUILTY TO MURDERING SHANANN AND THEIR TWO YOUNG DAUGHTERS
“20/20” features an exclusive interview with Frank and Sandra Rzucek, Shanann Watts’ parents

Christopher Watts was sentenced to life in prison without parole for murdering his pregnant wife, Shanann, and young daughters Bella and Celeste in Colorado. “20/20” Co-anchor Amy Robach sits down for the first interview with Shanann’s parents, Frank and Sandra Rzucek, who open up about their daughter, granddaughters and their grief. The pair also discusses their relationship with Chris and the shocking crime that devastated their family. The hour features exclusive interviews with neighbor Nathan Trinastich and Shanann’s friends Cassandra Rosenberg, and Cristina Meacham. “20/20” airs on Friday, December 7 (10:00 – 11:00 p.m. ET) on ABC.

“20/20” includes interviews with Nickole Atkinson, Shanann’s friend who first reported her missing; Michael Rourke, Weld County District Attorney; and John Camper, director of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. The hour also features new videos, documents, photos and texts from the case, coupled with newly released police evidence, in an attempt to explore the question of why Chris committed the murders.

I'm all set to record!

 

[Mellowmelly]

IIRC He went to school for it, but never had the ability, drive, etc., to make it. All of his success in life was because of Shanann; buying a house, having a family, getting in shape. traveling. Even meeting NK! Without Shanann he would NOT have been in shape, noticeable, or in a position to meet her. Actually, without Shanann he would still be a chubby, unnoticeable mechanic in N.C.

I wonder if CW ever thinks about the amazing, positive impact Shanann had on his life and the gifts she gave him? Shanann wasn't the boat anchor in that relationship, he was!

I agree, without Shannan he was a nobody, he didn’t even have his own friends. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[MsBetsy]

And yet I can't name a single NASCAR mechanic. Drivers, managers, driver wives, sponsors, etc but not any mechanic. They may be on the track for pit stops, but they are very much behind the scenes people. Background people.

Yes, I know but they are still very much part of the action. They have to work fast and are under a lot of pressure and it's probably an adrenaline high. You may not see them, but they are in direct contact with all the "famous people." He probably would have found that a lot more stimulating then being in a house with 3 kids and working in the oil fields. Imo

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I found it unusual that NK was so private with her personal life with her friends. She stated her friend Charlotte was her girl and her everything. She texted her sexual things about CW, yet she wasn’t going to tell her anything about the ongoing investigation and that her bf killed his family and she was the mistress. That’s odd - super odd.
jmo

I agree, for most that would be the first call you would make, to your closest friend, especially with such a monumental event like your boyfriend murdering his family.

 

[x_files]

Hello all, thanks for all the brilliant insights and information in this tragic and dreadful case.

I was looking around at stuff that might go towards explaining Chris Watts' behaviour. I am a retired unverified social worker, and these puzzles really interest me especially as my background is in child protection, and assessing abusers was my stock in trade.
A couple of observations that I have made suggests that Watts has an attachment disorder which has already been alluded to, he is attached to no-one deeply. He may have some surface feeling for his dad, but remember that his dad didn't save him from his mum, so he is probably angry at him subconsciously.
I don't think he trusts anyone, and the reason I believe this is at very early stage of life, his needs were not mirrored by his mum who saw him as an extension of herself. If you can't resolve this very early damaging issue, the chances are that you won't meet all the other individuation processes either. (Erickson). So he was underdeveloped emotionally, and very immature. That's kind of obvious lol. A toddler in a man's body.

As a child of a narcissistic parent, he had two choices beat them or join them. We can't beat narcissists especially ones who are responsible for our needs so we are stuck as children, you enter their skewed world, or you suffer. He joined them.
I don't think he was a good parent, just based on what I observed. His behaviour was likely superficial at best, and I can image that he was not a tolerant person who actually liked chicken nuggets being thrown at him. I believe Shan'ann probably thought it was funny (I would too). He was insulted. It's sensitive to him.
He is one of those narcissists who is an angel on the street and a devil at home. I think we know that from the neighbour.

I also think Shan'nan was the subject of domestic abuse perhaps not physical, but abuse nonetheless. Her declarations of love for him reminded me of the cycle of violence, almost like she needed to to keep him calm and engaged, she was sensitive to his needs. I just wish she hadn't chosen him, his behaviour would have affected the children, but I sense Shan'ann mediated this in some way.

I am horrified at the family Watts' behaviour and think Shan'ann was brave to take it on. They are a dysfunctional family of enablers who are incapable of self reflection or the needs of others, particularly children.

Narcissism is one of those things so damaging to children, but by it's very nature it actually causes narcissism. That's why it's not unusual to find one or more in the same family.

That's it from me, hope it adds rather than detracts from the discussion.

Mr Jitty I recognise you from the MK forum.
Dave are you masquerading as Harassed Wilsod? lol

thank you for your informative post.

 

[PommyMommy]

Killer dad Chris Watts may have faked calls to hospitals, pretending to look for missing pregnant wife and two little girls: ‘A trail of concocted concern’
On the day that Shanann Watts and her young daughters were first reported missing in mid-August, her husband Chris Watts made a series of phone calls to area hospitals at the suggestion of concerned family and friends — but an investigating officer was skeptical that Watts actually inquired about his family.

The report notes that “The average duration of these calls was forty seconds, the longest was sixty nine seconds.”

The Greeley Police officer who authored the report wrote in the data review that he called one of those four hospitals “out of curiosity” and asked about an unknown name, requesting confirmation that they were a patient at the hospital.

“It took two minutes to get my answer,” the officer, who did not identify himself in the call, wrote in the report.

“I suspect Watts merely called each hospital to create a trail of concocted concern and never actually spoke with anyone.”

 

[x_files]

Thank you for these comments.

Having experienced a very high-functioning malignant narcissist and researching about it, and talking with friends who have disclosed they also have had experience with family members with narcissism, I really agree with your comments.

I'm convinced this is a disorder that perpetuates itself through a parent who unknowingly selects one child as more special than the others and alternately elevates and degrades that child. This family pattern is then "transmitted" to the children of this now-grown child.

Once you see the pattern, it's amazing how characteristic it is in it's symptoms - like a common disease.

And I'm convinced it's incurable in the sense that the narcissist can never see themselves as flawed. It's always someone else's fault or persecution. I'm also convinced that SW endured a lot of very latent narcissistic abuse from CW.

I agree.

 

[freyaflies]

Narcissists/sociopaths and abusers don't come from nowhere. Sometimes how those pieces came together for a certain perp is a bit of a mystery. NOT HERE.



Layla123, I beg you to read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. I think everything will become much clearer. These people really do believe they are so much smarter than everyone else, or so charming, or they just simply have so little concern with consequences, that they just assume they will get away with everything. The sad part is that sometimes actually they do! Their brains work totally different from normal people. I get how hard it is for normal people to wrap their heads around this, I do: I stayed with my abusive sociopath ex-husband for 8 years because I refused to believe that he could really have no compassion or empathy. I truly believed that everyone has good in them that could be drawn out if you just tried hard enough. (I even gave him the exact same book SW gave CW.) TO THIS DAY and even after going to jail and now being on probation for DV my ex still feels no empathy or compassion or true remorse for any of his cruel behavior. Even toward his own children! And he still blames everyone but himself for his problems and thinks there is nothing wrong with him.

We will all be so much safer once we admit these people do exist and will not change, and that we cannot "get through" to them and make them feel empathy or compassion or remorse no matter how good and kind and loving we are. We cannot give them the benefit of the doubt. Their brains are different. They are predators, even if they never become physically violent. We cannot make them stop being predatory with love or reason. We can only protect ourselves by refusing to engage with them! Knowledge is power. Knowledge is protection. Spread the word and protect yourselves and everyone you love.

This is really good advice. I have only heard about these types of people in recent years, I think it's good that as a society we are becoming more educated about how brains work. It's scary how well Chris pretended to have real feelings. Sometimes I wonder if there was any way Shan'ann could have figured out who he really was beforehand - she did seem to have a slight clue, she texted him that he was a one way street, etc.- but for most of the marriage he seemed so caring and he was such a convincing liar, I don't see that there was any way she could have figured it out. I can understand her decision to return to Colorado, I would have gone back too if I was her.

 

[x_files]

We’re not sociopaths. We can form loving bonds with others, and don’t need to Google “When to say I love you.”

We are incapable of fully understanding him and what he did.

It’s frustrating to us all.

EXACTLY!
I cannot believe a grown man googled that, a pre-teen maybe but not a grown man! A toddler in a grown man's body indeed.

 

[Thepoet]

SPECIAL REPORT: Waupun prison guards accused of abusing dozens of inmates

SPECIAL REPORT: Waupun prison guards accused of abusing dozens of inmates

DOC Dodge Correctional Institution

If that's where CW is, he may be starting a nightmare existence.

 

[Layla123]

I found it unusual that NK was so private with her personal life with her friends. She stated her friend Charlotte was her girl and her everything. She texted her sexual things about CW, yet she wasn’t going to tell her anything about the ongoing investigation and that her bf killed his family and she was the mistress. That’s odd - super odd.
jmo

My take on it was that NK is totally embarrassed and ashamed, she wants no association with CW, she doesn’t want to drag her friends into it, and she doesn’t think anyone will hire her for 5-10 years. She was also talking about changing her name and moving out of state.

 

[Mellowmelly]

The problem I have had is that because my sociopath is so popular and manipulative, few will believe me about his true abusive nature.

Indeed the only people who believe it are the ones I confided in down the years when i sought support. Indeed one of those people had their own sociopath and gave me a lot of advice.

Everyone else believes that only if we could sit down and talk about everything it could be worked out.

But that is the last thing I can do because that simply allows sociopath to do emotional hoovering back into my life!

Narcissists/ sociopaths have a way of turning everything around on you. They will make YOU look like the one with the problem, the abuser, the bad person all whilst painting themselves as a saint to family and friends. Nobody would ever believe they could be capable of the things they do in private.

 

[MsBetsy]

IIRC He went to school for it, but never had the ability, drive, etc., to make it. All of his success in life was because of Shanann; buying a house, having a family, getting in shape. traveling. Even meeting NK! Without Shanann he would NOT have been in shape, noticeable, or in a position to meet her. Actually, without Shanann he would still be a chubby, unnoticeable mechanic in N.C.

I wonder if CW ever thinks about the amazing, positive impact Shanann had on his life and the gifts she gave him? Shanann wasn't the boat anchor in that relationship, he was!

I doubt he ever thought of that. More likely, he probably resents her and blames her that he didn't get the life he always wanted. I'm sure he felt the impact of his failures and blamed it on everyone else but himself. Imo