GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[book-thinker]

Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Also with true OCD the behaviors prevent someone from taking part in a normal life-- not being able to leave or go to sleep without checking the locks repeatedly. Cleaning obsessively when there is no dirt and to the point where you miss appointments. Shanann had no signs of that. She was dependable and showed up for her appointments (until the day she was murdered). When her friends said she was a little OCD they only meant she likes a clean and organized life. They didn't mean that she was clinically diagnosed with OCD-- there is a huge difference. JMO.

Shannon showed no signs of OCD. Just because Shannon's friends said she's a little OCD means nothing.
Just joking between friends. She had good friends that stopped a killer from getting away with murder.

Helping to explain how OCD takes over a person's daily existence. Thank You.

 

[riolove77]

Couldn’t it be argued that they were investigating for the DA?

They were investigating for the DA, yes. They were not preparing for trial for him, were not agents hired by an attorney's office to investigate something to be written up for trial, or to develop strategy, etc. They are just doing their job, then handing over what they have to the DA. The DA then decides to charge.

 

[castilloisno1]

Thank you Gardener. My son has the brain disorder of OCD. It is a disability recognized by the US government. It is a crippling disorder where thoughts/actions get stuck in your brain and like an old fashioned record(vinyl),the thought gets "stuck" and skips and one cannot focus on anything except that thought or action. I do not see SW as having the disorder. Yes, she was organized and liked to have things in order. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, some people think that those are wonderful qualities. Let's face it, the poor woman was living with a monster...

 

[nanwv]

In the US, phone numbers and addresses are easily found in the public domain, even if one has taken measures to conceal this information.

One does not have to pay for this information, as it draws from numerous public databases.

I agree though, they certainly missed some redactions.

Like NK's unfortunate couch surfer "jim". His business has been outed. Guess we should all just stay alone in our houses and communicate anonymously on websites. lol

 

[NanZDrew]

I find the “controlling” criticism to be particularly offensive. SW knew what she wanted, and she knew it would require a dedicated effort of strict self discipline to get it. CW knew who she was when he married her. If he would rather have lived in a cluttered, dirty home, had affairs, and spent his life following professional sports teams, he shouldn’t have married her, and he should have told his parents to shut up!

Agree. However, I think CW was also very tidy. I remember his team and boss saying that he was always very tidy, and the fact that he had his pant legs in one both and not the other and was wearing really old FR clothes, was odd to them. They also said he kept his truck very clean. NK said that he was very clean. That would have made them compatible in that aspect. Tidiness is only OCD if it interferes with your ability to maintain a normal life. Tidiness and organization seemed to be a common characteristic for them.

 

[MassGuy]

Like NK's unfortunate couch surfer "jim". His business has been outed. Guess we should all just stay alone in our houses and communicate anonymously on websites. lol

Yup. The second his name leaked, I found his phone number and verified that it was the correct “Jim” within NK’s phone records.

 

[Layla123]

So here we are, 4 months down the road, the case is close, we've seen lots of evidence, and we are still asking, "Why?" Some scenarios have changed. I have found that some of my theories were wrong. But I still ask, "Why?" It doesn't make sense. It never will. They had problems but they were not unsurmountable. I have lived long enough to know that we will all have moments of pain and stress in this journey called life. Yet neither the depths of despair nor the heights of rapture will drive us to murder someone. It is neither logical nor rational to ignore consequences. I think we are all logical people here so our brains just cannot comprehend how CW could have done this. We will always wonder, "Why," and grieve the lives that were unmercifully and cruelly destroyed for nothing! Little Nico never got to take his first breath. One of the pictures of Bella at the birthday party showed her in a little dress sitting in a chair as she was just starting to make that transition from toddler to little girl. Sassy, spunky little CeCe whose whole face smiled when she laughed. We'll never know what she might have accomplished. And then Shanann. She was one who my opinion changed alot about. I thought that maybe Chris was someone that she just "settled" for, but after reading the texts between her and CW and between her and her friends, I realized that the video that she made about Chris being her rock and the best thing that ever happened to her, sincerely expressed her feelings. Her question to a friend, "What if he really doesn't love me anymore?" and her statement to him that these had been the worst weeks of her life really hurt my heart. He put her through hell and she stood up to him about his parents even while she was fighting for her marriage. She was a fighter for what she believed in, but she also had a kind heart. I grieve them all.

CW...he was a human tornado leaving a path of destruction in every life that he touched.

I was thinking today that Shanann probably would have given everything she had to fight for her marriage. She would have believed that CW once loved her, it couldn’t have been better, love is forever, and love doesn’t disappear overnight. She would have tried to find a fix for her marriage and family. She would have endured years of pain to figure out in the end that CW wasn’t capable of giving love to begin with, he faked it.

 

[gitana1]

I did not hear her use the R word but she did seem to trash talk Charlotte IMO.
About 14:30 minutes in she starts talking about her texts with her friends and what she has told them and then goes into what she talked to Charlotte about after that:

If I were Charlotte, NK would not be my friend anymore. JMO.

ETA: Upon listening again I think I found the spot where people are hearing NK call Charlotte the R word but I can't quite tell if that is what she is saying. About 21 minutes in she says something under her breath "She is so ____".

She absolutely said it. "She's so retaaardddiiiiddddd."

I cannot abide by her lazy, bored and rude attitude. It's stunning that anyone excuses her at this point. She's horrible. Two kids died and she was the trigger for the monster who did it. But she acts like some mediocre fast food worker doing the bare minimum to get through a monotnonous shift at work!

Have some dignity! Be respectful of the situation! I would be horrified and weeping and shocked if I was in her shoes. Instead she sounds like a rotten, spoiled teenager trying to get her parents off her back. How is this woman 30?

The 15 year old son of Shanann's best friend showed vastly more concern, alertness, desire to help, interest, politeness, and empathy than this woman ever did in her interviews.

Ugh I cannot stand her attitude. She's got a rotten personality. Nothing explains her rude disinterest, her lack of manners, her slouching, arrogant apathy, and dismissive behavior toward the investigator and the case.

Wow.

I had to turn that off.

 

[k-mac]

What about the assurances LE gave NK that they had no use for her raunchy material? Are they allowed to misrepresent their intentions to witnesses? I’m also thinking about characterizing her laughter as creepy. Can she sue them? And don’t you think LE’s betrayal will discourage future witnesses from coming forward?

can she sue them?? really??
having some relatively normal google searches exposed?
this is your priority??

more importantly to me...can LE charge her with lying and being deceitful

moo

 

[ZsaZsa]

I mean where does she get off thinking the world is fascinated with her sex life?
Who cares what she does in bed, I don't want to hear about it, it's all been done before. She wasn't some naive 17 yr old, she's a 30 yr old who had an affair with a married man.
What matters is that four souls are dead and she is whining about revealing her stupid phone calls and texts, and very carefully framing her answers to put herself in the best light possible.
We saw what she is, she's willing to walk over another woman's face to get what she wants with only superficial regard for the devastation she contributed to.
I am sure we haven't heard the last of her.

 

[Hhskstev]

So here we are, 4 months down the road, the case is close, we've seen lots of evidence, and we are still asking, "Why?" Some scenarios have changed. I have found that some of my theories were wrong. But I still ask, "Why?" It doesn't make sense. It never will. They had problems but they were not unsurmountable. I have lived long enough to know that we will all have moments of pain and stress in this journey called life. Yet neither the depths of despair nor the heights of rapture will drive us to murder someone. It is neither logical nor rational to ignore consequences. I think we are all logical people here so our brains just cannot comprehend how CW could have done this. We will always wonder, "Why," and grieve the lives that were unmercifully and cruelly destroyed for nothing! Little Nico never got to take his first breath. One of the pictures of Bella at the birthday party showed her in a little dress sitting in a chair as she was just starting to make that transition from toddler to little girl. Sassy, spunky little CeCe whose whole face smiled when she laughed. We'll never know what she might have accomplished. And then Shanann. She was one who my opinion changed alot about. I thought that maybe Chris was someone that she just "settled" for, but after reading the texts between her and CW and between her and her friends, I realized that the video that she made about Chris being her rock and the best thing that ever happened to her, sincerely expressed her feelings. Her question to a friend, "What if he really doesn't love me anymore?" and her statement to him that these had been the worst weeks of her life really hurt my heart. He put her through hell and she stood up to him about his parents even while she was fighting for her marriage. She was a fighter for what she believed in, but she also had a kind heart. I grieve them all.

CW...he was a human tornado leaving a path of destruction in every life that he touched.

We of a normal mind will never ever understand why he did it because its beyond our comprehension. He killed his whole family so he could start a new life with NK. Ill never stop thinking of Shannan and her poor babies

 

[Layla123]

can she sue them?? really??
having some relatively normal google searches exposed?
this is your priority??

more importantly to me...can LE charge her with lying and being deceitful

moo

LE lied to NK. We are supposed to be able to trust the police. I thought. And no, this is not my priority, just curious, and concerned this violation of her privacy may discourage other witnesses from coming forward, and would like to discuss that aspect. As for NK being charged for lying, the detective assured her that she wasn’t in trouble, and that she had given them everything they needed.

 

[BabyButterfly]

Control issues? Please cite the page number or minute number in video or audio that proves Shanann had control issues.

It may be hard for some to reconcile the fact that no- she didn't kill her kids. CW wasn't pushed past the brink by her, and yes, she is a victim. But those are the facts.

BTW? Anything bad about Shanann stated by investigators to the murderer while they were trying to get him to confess, is not evidence that Shanann was a bad person or had whatever nasty characteristics some have attempted repeatedly to insinuate about poor Shanann.

So what else is there that proves she was controlling?

Shanann had multiple, very close friends. She remained friends with her ex and his family even. People all speak very highly of her. Her friends knew her intimately. Not on a surface level like CW's friends.

If she had true control issues she would not have so many close, intimate friends.

Did she take charge in the relationship? Perhaps. So what? That doesn't mean she had control issues. That might mean she was a driven, organized go-getter who had an immature blob of a husband.

Was she a decisive person that rubs those who have a problem with strong women, the wrong way? Oh I think so. She doesn't fit all the traditional gender norms and doesn't "keep sweet." That seems to have caused a lot of hate toward her in people who don't know her, and in her in-laws.

But I really thought we were done with the bashing here.

First it was every speculative insinuation about Shanann one could think of, based on gossip, rumor, innuendo and forming judgments from biased views of cherry-picked videos, while logic and actual mountains of circumstantial evidence against CW was ignored and deemed "not enough."

Then, when he pled guilty, it was he must've been railroaded into it. He must've been the victim of a corrupt and inept public defender who colluded with the DA and the jail. Or maybe he was protecting someone. Or pled to brutally murdering his own children simply because he felt he would be found guilty anyhow.

After sentencing, the theories of his innocence have certainly faded from the threads. But suddenly we saw from certain factions, deep protectiveness and excusing of the Watts family who publicly bashed a murder victim, and then protectiveness and excusing of the AP, whose existence and actions proved a catalyst or trigger for Shanann's defective and sociopathic monster of a husband. So everyone who has harmed Shanann is given a break, but never her.

And now in keeping with the pattern, we are circling back to making ridiculous allegations about the character of the murder victim? Someone who more people adore and were worried about and jumped to try to help than we see with many murder victims?

I find this terribly offensive.

This. All.of.this. I think I love you

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

LE lied to NK. We are supposed to be able to trust the police. I thought. And no, this is not my priority, just curious, and concerned this violation of her privacy may discourage other witnesses from coming forward, and would like to discuss that aspect. As for NK being charged for lying, the detective assured her that she wasn’t in trouble, and that she had given them everything they needed.

And why are we privy to that one thong shot of her, but not the hundreds of others? NO, I don't want to see them! I just thought it odd that that one popped up in the midst of the report and I guess all these attachments referenced on many pages that we can't see contain the rest, but that one had to be there?

 

[Trudie]

LE lied to NK. We are supposed to be able to trust the police. I thought. And no, this is not my priority, just curious, and concerned this violation of her privacy may discourage other witnesses from coming forward, and would like to discuss that aspect. As for NK being charged for lying, the detective assured her that she wasn’t in trouble, and that she had given them everything they needed.

LE always lies to extract info.

 

[MassGuy]

And why are we privy to that one thong shot of her, but not the hundreds of others? NO, I don't want to see them! I just thought it odd that that one popped up in the midst of the report and I guess all these attachments referenced on many pages that we can't see contain the rest, but that one had to be there?

It is evidence of the affair, which was a likely motive for this crime.

He was the person who took that picture. You can actually see his reflection in the mirror.

Page 2088

 

[Layla123]

And why are we privy to that one thong shot of her, but not the hundreds of others? NO, I don't want to see them! I just thought it odd that that one popped up in the midst of the report and I guess all these attachments referenced on many pages that we can't see contain the rest, but that one had to be there?

I know! Why didn’t they release CW’s many weenie photos? They had those, too.

 

[Harmony 2]

This thread is very long. I am preparing a new thread. I will be back with the link in a bit.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Control issues? Please cite the page number or minute number in video or audio that proves Shanann had control issues.

It may be hard for some to reconcile the fact that no- she didn't kill her kids. CW wasn't pushed past the brink by her, and yes, she is a victim. But those are the facts.

BTW? Anything bad about Shanann stated by investigators to the murderer while they were trying to get him to confess, is not evidence that Shanann was a bad person or had whatever nasty characteristics some have attempted repeatedly to insinuate about poor Shanann.

So what else is there that proves she was controlling?

Shanann had multiple, very close friends. She remained friends with her ex and his family even. People all speak very highly of her. Her friends knew her intimately. Not on a surface level like CW's friends.

If she had true control issues she would not have so many close, intimate friends.

Did she take charge in the relationship? Perhaps. So what? That doesn't mean she had control issues. That might mean she was a driven, organized go-getter who had an immature blob of a husband.

Was she a decisive person that rubs those who have a problem with strong women, the wrong way? Oh I think so. She doesn't fit all the traditional gender norms and doesn't "keep sweet." That seems to have caused a lot of hate toward her in people who don't know her, and in her in-laws.

But I really thought we were done with the bashing here.

First it was every speculative insinuation about Shanann one could think of, based on gossip, rumor, innuendo and forming judgments from biased views of cherry-picked videos, while logic and actual mountains of circumstantial evidence against CW was ignored and deemed "not enough."

Then, when he pled guilty, it was he must've been railroaded into it. He must've been the victim of a corrupt and inept public defender who colluded with the DA and the jail. Or maybe he was protecting someone. Or pled to brutally murdering his own children simply because he felt he would be found guilty anyhow.

After sentencing, the theories of his innocence have certainly faded from the threads. But suddenly we saw from certain factions, deep protectiveness and excusing of the Watts family who publicly bashed a murder victim, and then protectiveness and excusing of the AP, whose existence and actions proved a catalyst or trigger for Shanann's defective and sociopathic monster of a husband. So everyone who has harmed Shanann is given a break, but never her.

And now in keeping with the pattern, we are circling back to making ridiculous allegations about the character of the murder victim? Someone who more people adore and were worried about and jumped to try to help than we see with many murder victims?

I find this terribly offensive.

Amen

 

[opalonyx]

And why are we privy to that one thong shot of her, but not the hundreds of others? NO, I don't want to see them! I just thought it odd that that one popped up in the midst of the report and I guess all these attachments referenced on many pages that we can't see contain the rest, but that one had to be there?

You can see CW in the background of that one, taking her photo. I suspect that's why.