GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #66

[PommyMommy]

Family Annihilators is simply a media label to lump cases together and I refuse to do that because each one is unique and has its own dynamics. It is no different that acts of mass murder. They don't fit into some neat and tidy category.

I don't buy the explanation that CW found a new love interest and neither did the DA because he admitted there had to be other reasons. JMO

“Family Annihilators”: Understanding What Drives Fathers to Kill | TIME.com
The picture that emerged shows that men who kill their families were most likely to commit their crimes on Sundays and in August, times when children are typically out of school. The most common method was stabbing; the second was carbon monoxide poisoning. More than half of the men were in their 30s and more than 80% committed or tried to commit suicide after killing their children. While previous research found that “annihilators” are often characterized by failure, most of the men in the current sample were employed — and had jobs ranging from surgeon to librarian to taxi driver.

Yardley and her team deduced a primary motive for each father’s actions; among the immediate answers to why they did what they did, family breakup was the most common, ahead of financial difficulties and “honor killings,” in which “the father was reported to have felt shamed by the actions of his family.” The most unifying feature among the 59 killers was a perceived threat to their masculinity and a desire to exert power or control. “The family is in a very precarious position,” Yardley says. “Should ‘the family’ as he knows it change due to internal or external factors, this has serious implications for his sense of self.”

 

[MassGuy]

"Family annihilator" is a term for a profile created by the FBI.

Pike County massacre: Some killers are 'family annihilators,' former FBI agent says

Yeah. This (Pike County Massacre) ended up not being a “family annihilation” kind of crime, but your point about it being an FBI profile is spot on.

This was certainly the type of crime you’d expect to be tied to “family annihilation,” it just wasn’t.

 

[Bothsides]

Wow. 8.14.2018 9:56pm. CW: You gotta believe me I don't have nothing to do with these, this, horrible, evil Act or whatever has happened "

After the det asked him how to get him out of there not looking like he had anything to do with this.

 

[PommyMommy]

Familicide - Wikipedia

A familicide is a type of murder or murder-suicide in which a perpetrator kills multiple close family members in quick succession, most often children, spouse, siblings, or parents.[1][2] In half the cases, the killer then kills themselves in a murder-suicide.[3][4][5] If only the parents are killed, the case may also be referred to as a parricide. Where all members of a family are killed, the crime may be referred to as family annihilation.

Notable familicides[edit]
See also: List of familicides

• Watts family homicides, August 2018, Frederick, Colorado.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, District Attorney Michael Rourke demonstrated 0ver and over throughout this case how much he cares. He flew to NC to talk to Shanann's family because he felt the conversation warranted a face-to-face.

And you'll never catch me calling Inmate Watts normal. With exception of the fangirls, most of the world knows he's not normal. MOO

The DA is a politician and this case is over for him. He isn't about to publicly discuss CW's extreme personality disorders. Even if it went to trial, proving motive isn't required. JMO

 

[Ronso]

Why would the DA discuss disorders that CW was never diagnosed with?

 

[PommyMommy]

The DA is a politician and this case is over for him. He isn't about to publicly discuss CW's extreme personality disorders. Even if it went to trial, proving motive isn't required. JMO

And none of that proves the DA doesn't care, which is what you said. He clearly demonstrated that he cared. Why would he talk about personality disorders? He's the district attorney, not a psychologist. MOO

 

[Jennifer17]

The DA is a politician and this case is over for him. He isn't about to publicly discuss CW's extreme personality disorders. Even if it went to trial, proving motive isn't required. JMO

BBM. And no one would expect him to. He is not a psychiatrist, just a man who knows an evil, lying killer when he looks at evidence.

 

[NanZDrew]

Anyone else feels after following cases on Websleuth that you can spot a narcissist much quicker? I know I can spot them and there's frankly way too many!
Another poster said they can spot one a million miles away. I feel I learned to fine tune my skills. I wish I had this knowledge as a teen when I was attracting abusive Narcs one after the other in my life.

Yes, and key is THEY are attracted to you. They look for tenderhearted, empathetic people that will try to make them happy and fix their inadequacies. Love is based on what you DO for them. They say things like, "I love you more than I have ever loved anyone, because nobody has ever done as much for me as you have." Look how CW said SW was the first person he felt he could ever be himself with. Notice in one of SW's texts how she said that she stood up to his family taking up for him. They find mates that will be their champions. When the find someone else who they think will better serve their needs, they will cast that person away like yesterday's garbage. Their parting words might be something like, "I don't NEED your ash."

They are in love with the "ideal" love. They fall quickly in love with someone they think is perfect and then as they see the person is not perfect, they start to despise that person. CW and NK were a perfect example of that. Look how crazy he fell for her so fast. They will try to rush you into marriage quickly so they do not have to continue to be this fake person that pretends to be kind and romantic.

Narcissism is a personality disorder...not a mental illness. Personality disorders cannot be cured, and narcissists especially are resistant to change because they think they are perfect. No amount of love will fix them. Their victims usually will try harder and harder to please them, which just makes the narcissist lose respect for the victim and hold them in contempt. Look at how CW treated SW in the final stages.

It is risky breaking off with a narcissist. They can become very dangerous. They make you feel responsible for them and what might happen to them or others if you leave. You may feel like you are in the eye of a hurricane trying to steer in away from self destruction and the destruction of others. You know that you are in a dangerous place, but that place seems safer than trying to go through the storms to get out of the hurricane. If you leave, get the help of others before you leave. Treat it was leaving an abusive relationship because it will be traumatic. Staying will just be increasingly traumatic and dangerous.

A book that I found very helpful was "Malignant Self Love, Narcissm Revisited" by Sam Vaknin.

 

[NanZDrew]

BBM. And no one would expect him to. He is not a psychiatrist, just a man who knows an evil, lying killer when he looks at evidence.

And he did his job fantastically by making sure this man will never have access to another innocent person ever again.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

If CW "cared" about his children, he wouldn't have murdered them. He is incapable of empathy. JMO

When you kill your own children, you are killing a part of yourself. And to be able to do that, you love neither them, or yourself. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I don't think there was extreme violence. He killed them in a deliberate, methodical way. If you think of all the ways to kill someone, it is one of the least violent.
When he suggested all the ways to make someone disappear, he said you can stab someone, you can hit them with an object, you can shoot someone. He mentioned all the more aggressive ways and completely left out strangulation. In his mind it probably wasn't a violent murder at all. Sudden, extreme violence indicates loss of control or rage. He planned to kill them, so it wasn't really sudden at all. And it was done in a controlled manner, which actually is not unusual for him. Imo

I strongly disagree. There is evidence Bella fought back. Her death wasn't quick, it was incredibly cruel and we don't know if the children witnessed their mother's death. I think strangulation is an incredibly violent infliction because it takes time.

Loss of control and rage are why so many cases of domestic violence occur when the abuser is under the influence and I'm just not buying the theory that CW lost control only because he was in love with someone else. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

When you kill your own children, you are killing a part of yourself. And to be able to do that, you love neither them, or yourself. IMO

ITA.

 

[CarnegieHall]

And none of that proves the DA doesn't care, which is what you said. He clearly demonstrated that he cared. Why would he talk about personality disorders? He's the district attorney, not a psychologist. MOO

The DA cared. He cared that he was getting a conviction quickly in one of the highest profile cases in the country/world. Does wonders for one’s career.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I strongly disagree. There is evidence Bella fought back. Her death wasn't quick, it was incredibly cruel and we don't know if the children witnessed their mother's death. I think strangulation is an incredibly violent infliction because it takes time.

Loss of control and rage are why so many cases of domestic violence occur when the abuser is under the influence and I'm just not buying the theory that CW lost control only because he was in love with someone else. JMO

He didn’t really lose control per se. He planned these acts. He planned to kill his family and he did. This wasn’t a sudden act of rage no matter how bad his family and his adoring supporters want to think it was.

 

[MyBelle]

"Family annihilator" is a term for a profile created by the FBI.

Pike County massacre: Some killers are 'family annihilators,' former FBI agent says

Yes, it is a profile Brad Garrett often gives to the media and I wonder if he invented it. In that case he was wrong.

 

[PommyMommy]

The DA cared. He cared that he was getting a conviction quickly in one of the highest profile cases in the country/world. Does wonders for one’s career.

LOL. The defense approached the prosecution with the plea deal. I doubt they did that for benefit of the DA's career. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I strongly disagree. There is evidence Bella fought back. Her death wasn't quick, it was incredibly cruel and we don't know if the children witnessed their mother's death. I think strangulation is an incredibly violent infliction because it takes time.

Loss of control and rage are why so many cases of domestic violence occur when the abuser is under the influence and I'm just not buying the theory that CW lost control only because he was in love with someone else. JMO

I don’t think he “lost control” at all.

I think this was premeditated, and a means to an end.

 

[Jennifer17]

I strongly disagree. There is evidence Bella fought back. Her death wasn't quick, it was incredibly cruel and we don't know if the children witnessed their mother's death. I think strangulation is an incredibly violent infliction because it takes time.

Loss of control and rage are why so many cases of domestic violence occur when the abuser is under the influence and I'm just not buying the theory that CW lost control only because he was in love with someone else. JMO

Lost control of what?
He was not in love with NK. He saw something that fitted what he thought he was entitled to.

 

[CarnegieHall]

LOL. The defense approached the prosecution with the plea deal. I doubt they did that for benefit of the DA's career. MOO

But it was still a win-win for DA and prosecution. Case closed, no more resources spent, and they didn’t have to budge an inch on their demands. Plus, they didn’t have to go through a messy trial.