GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[mtnlites]

After all that, I am buying everyone on here a virtual glass of sparkling cider. (And something stronger for those who need it.)

Just when I think it can't get any worse...

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Agreed. What comes to my mind is one of the first letters his mistress wrote him about wanting to have "firsts" with someone like him she went on that she wanted to have a marriage and children like he has. I wonder if this unintentionally plotted an idea to give the mistress what she wanted by getting rid of his family. Then he could go on to having "first"experiences with her. There is something really really wrong with him and very sad that he couldn't see what a wonderful family he had.

More specifically she wanted to give him a son

 

[Davia18]

After all that, I am buying everyone on here a virtual glass of sparkling cider. (And something stronger for those who need it.)

Just when I think it can't get any worse...

Thank You, stronger for me PLEASE

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

He admits that he did not think his relationship with Shanann was bad prior to meeting NK.

 

[Best of What's Around]

CW: "If I had never met Nikki, I wouldn't have thought anything was wrong with my relationship." He never had a built up anger toward SW. That is his family's wishful thinking, and him relying on it after the fact...but he gives up hints - zero hatred. Zero love. He misses SW's cooking - he could laugh about that. He sees people as we never could.

 

[Gardenista]

He wasn't going to tell them about the secret calculator app, but Tammy told him they knew. Makes me think he's still holding stuff back.

 

[gitana1]

I just read. I don't have time to listen. But I think most is pretty much true as @MassGuy thought.

Except it was planned and he can't admit that. I don't think he felt blind rage. I think he felt desperation and determination.

He totally had her pinned because he intended to kill her. I think she was afraid and sensed danger but didn't totally believe he could harm her. But it does seem like he was trying to work up the courage and make her give him a definitive "trigger".

The Aspen trip was as important as I thought. He asked her not to go and she didn't give the answer he wanted. He was desperate. So at that moment he got the trigger he wanted and killed her.

NK is just as I suspected as well. She totally knew about the relationship and pursued him! The pursued him while already knowing he was married with kids part was unexpected. But the pouting and manipulating in order to get him to declare she was most important? Right on the mark.

In fact, she's more diabolical than I thought. Something is wrong with that chick.

It is pretty definitive for me after reading that, that he took his poor babies to the site to murder them. I believe all of that.

The only things that seemed questionable to me is his pretense about rage and not planning this out. It just wasn't well planned out. Also, he fully knows why Shanann didn't fight back. He had her pinned under the covers. Horrific.

So many people were right about his relationship dynamics and how he picked dominant people. I was surprised he moved out of his house and never went back. Also interesting that he seemed to dump them once he got with Shanann. Echoes of things to come maybe. His ability to disconnect. It was odd though that he was able to describe his parents so positively yet disconnect so quickly.

He is truly bizarre. After only couple months he was willing to decimate his entire family for a monstrous siren. Incredible. It supports my suspicion that he really didn't feel much actual feeling in life and the excitement of being pursued by a sexy woman became dangerously obsessing. But it's so hard to understand.

The investigator questions about what they could've done differently were pretty interesting and show LE's motivation. I hope those questioning their reasons for going down there can listen to this. It had nothing to do with investigating anyone else. Just trying to understand and profile and learn for the next time.

CW's family is even more vile than I thought, IMO. The things they've said to him about Shanann and trying to convince him that he's a battered husband and suffered from some complex PTSD? After saying what they said at his sentencing? Just evil. They're still trying to bash that poor woman. Yes, CW described an imperfect woman but also someone who was loving and a great mother. She didn't deserve to be choked until she defecated and then died and she doesn't deserve the continued attempts to deflect blame onto her by his terrible family.

CW is incredibly bizarre. How he describes his mindset. The things he cares about (how people perceive him), his candor about his thoughts and feelings. His regrets. How he reads to his kids every night. And has his family's photo on his wall (much like Christian Longo). His total lack of insight about normal human emotion. I mean he candidly discusses the suffering and fear he put his family through and sort of is able to coldly discuss Bella's terror and understanding about what he had done and was going to do to her, but he just seems sort of detached by that. Not realizing or only vaguely realizing how horrific that was and how his words will affect people and make them feel.

Yet he is haunted by Bella's last words. "No daddy!" But he is surprised that people would judge him based on only one thing he did in his life? Are you kidding, chief? That one thing cancels out EVERYTHING you've done in life that might have been good. You dumped all that in the toilet by your morning of murder.

My gosh. He has something very wrong with him that I don't think can be explained by any diagnosis. Not really.

I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks and to get more blanks filled in by people who heard the audio.

 

[kaykay543]

Lies, lies and more lies. The only real truth here is he killed Shannan and the girls. The rest is all the normal CW BS.

For some reason he really does not want people to know this was all premeditated. And at the end of the day I guess it doesn't really matter. The majority of us know without a doubt the whole thing was planned (albeit poorly) in advance.

I just wish they had kept him in Colorado where he was so miserable. He sounds way too content now. And I don't want him to be content. And I don't want him "talking or reading to the girls" everyday. He lost that right. I hope the other prisoners are maybe lulling him into a false sense of security.

 

[Thinker Belle]

Does he have internet privileges in prison? If so, I wonder if he has recently googled how it feels to have a soul. Or any feelings at all.

I despise him.

 

[Trident]

CW: "If I had never met Nikki, I wouldn't have thought anything was wrong with my relationship." He never had a built up anger toward SW. That is his family's wishful thinking, and him relying on it after the fact...but he gives up hints - zero hatred. Zero love. He misses SW's cooking - he could laugh about that. He sees people as we never could.

I think you might be surprised at how many of "we" could see people the same way.

 

[Davia18]

@gitana1 I 100% agree with you. I feel the exact same way. From CW to NK to CW family.

 

[gitana1]

Maybe it's just my brain not letting me "go there" but I don't think killing the children was in his original plan. They had to go because they saw what happened to mommy. Maybe killing mommy was planned all along, but I don't think killing the girls was. But even so, their murder was way worse than I thought .

She didn't want his kids. He admitted that. IMO of course it was part of his plan. Just maybe harder to execute than strangling his wife.

 

[Best of What's Around]

He never fought with NK (oooooh that was coming with more time, you naïve - you don't know how good you had it with SW!) but had to "calm her down a bunch of times." When? When she felt like second fiddle to SW. When she was trying to make him jealous telling him she was still going on dates with other guys. This is all very muddled and unclear. He is clearly holding back I think.

 

[margarita25]

Thank You, stronger for me PLEASE

(You wanna hit this joint? Puff puff pass)

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I keep hearing people say he is blaming shanann for what happened. Imo there has to be some kind of anger, hurt, resentment or some reason that leads a person to harm another. Why did he do this? He perceived things a certain way. That does not mean that it was the truth but it was the reason he did what he did. We all are wondering why he did this. Most people are not self aware. They do not see all their faults. If his relationship with Shanann was perfect, or he was perfect there would have been no murders. I am interested to see why he chose to do the things he did. What his reasons are. That does not mean he was justified in those feelings. He obvioulsy was not justified in the choices he made. I could never do the things he did but thats what makes me want to understand so badly how he could. How he could hurt his babies? His wife? Even if he no longer loved her he spent years of his life with her. What was going on in his brain? Thats what i want to understand. I want to hear his excuses. Maybe just to get the relief that i could never be like him.

He said his relationship/marriage was fine prior to meeting NK and hat if he had not started the affair his marriage would have been ok. He also said he got used to not having to be a family man. This was not about getting away from Shanann but eliminating the ibstsvkedthat were in his way of being with NK

 

[gitana1]

@gitana1 I 100% agree with you. I feel the exact same way. From CW to NK to CW family.

She seems downright sociopathic. Listen to her interviews and she's totally in control. But she is a smooth liar. And totally targeted a married family man in an effort to try to prove that she can turn him from his family and get him to leave them because she so special.

That's one sick and dangerous person, IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

I just read. I don't have time to listen. But I think most is pretty much true as @MassGuy thought.

Except it was planned and he can't admit that. I don't think he felt blind rage. I think he felt desperation and determination.

He totally had her pinned because he intended to kill her. I think she was afraid and sensed danger but didn't totally believe he could harm her. But it does seem like he was trying to work up the courage and make her give him a definitive "trigger".

The Aspen trip was as important as I thought. He asked her not to go and she didn't give the answer he wanted. He was desperate. So at that moment he got the trigger he wanted and killed her.

NK is just as I suspected as well. She totally knew about the relationship and pursued him! The pursued him while already knowing he was married with kids part was unexpected. But the pouting and manipulating in order to get him to declare she was most important? Right on the mark.

In fact, she's more diabolical than I thought. Something is wrong with that chick.

It is pretty definitive for me after reading that, that he took his poor babies to the site to murder them. I believe all of that.

The only things that seemed questionable to me is his pretense about rage and not planning this out. It just wasn't well planned out. Also, he fully knows why Shanann didn't fight back. He had her pinned under the covers. Horrific.

So many people were right about his relationship dynamics and how he picked dominant people. I was surprised he moved out of his house and never went back. Also interesting that he seemed to dump them once he got with Shanann. Echoes of things to come maybe. His ability to disconnect. It was odd though that he was able to describe his parents so positively yet disconnect so quickly.

He is truly bizarre. After only couple months he was willing to decimate his entire family for a monstrous siren. Incredible. It supports my suspicion that he really didn't feel much actual feeling in life and the excitement of being pursued by a sexy woman became dangerously obsessing. But it's so hard to understand.

The investigator questions about what they could've done differently were pretty interesting and show LE's motivation. I hope those questioning their reasons for going down there can listen to this. It had nothing to do with investigating anyone else. Just trying to understand and profile and learn for the next time.

CW's family is even more vile than I thought, IMO. The things they've said to him about Shanann and trying to convince him that he's a battered husband and suffered from some complex PTSD? After saying what they said at his sentencing? Just evil. They're still trying to bash that poor woman. Yes, CW described an imperfect woman but also someone who was loving and a great mother. She didn't deserve to be choked until she defecated and then died and she doesn't deserve the continued attempts to deflect blame onto her by his terrible family.

CW is incredibly bizarre. How he describes his mindset. The things he cares about (how people perceive him), his candor about his thoughts and feelings. His regrets. How he reads to his kids every night. And has his family's photo on his wall (much like Christian Longo). His total lack of insight about normal human emotion. I mean he candidly discusses the suffering and fear he put his family through and sort of is able to coldly discuss Bella's terror and understanding about what he had done and was going to do to her, but he just seems sort of detached by that. Not realizing or only vaguely realizing how horrific that was and how his words will affect people and make them feel.

Yet he is haunted by Bella's last words. "No daddy!" But he is surprised that people would judge him based on only one thing he did in his life? Are you kidding, chief? That one thing cancels out EVERYTHING you've done in life that might have been good. You dumped all that in the toilet by your morning of murder.

My gosh. He has something very wrong with him that I don't think can be explained by any diagnosis. Not really.

I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks and to get more blanks filled in by people who heard the audio.

I love your takeaways and agree with them all.

My feeling now is that this was definitely premeditated, but he needed something to give him the courage to actually go through with this.

I think he wanted a fight that would trigger him, and allow him to go through with this.

I think the credit card usage was designed for that purpose, and he directed their conversation on the night of the murder, in furtherance of this.

He wanted her to make him angry, and he helped her with that.

I found it very interesting that he was able to kill his family, but committing suicide was somehow crossing a line.

That goes to his narcissism again, of which there are no shortage of examples in his latest confession.

It’s still all about him, as exemplified by his concern for himself, when he was squeezing the life out of Shanann.

No moron, her life is over, not yours.

Atleast literally.

 

[margarita25]

I hate that he likes this prison better! He said he “gets to be around people where as in Colorado he was segregated”...(direct paraphrase)

Segregate his !

Grrrrr I know they can’t do this legally or whatever, just venting.

—
ETA:
(I like how @MassGuy and @gitana1 are managing to keep up a strong intellectual discussion meanwhile for me it’s like Elvis left the building. No surprise.

—

ETA2:

I love your takeaways and agree with them all.

My feeling now is that this was definitely premeditated, but he needed something to give him the courage to actually go through with this.

I think he wanted a fight that would trigger him, and allow him to go through with this.

I think the credit card usage was designed for that purpose, and he directed their conversation on the night of the murder, in furtherance of this.

He wanted her to make him angry, and he helped her with that.

I found it very interesting that he was able to kill his family, but committing suicide was somehow crossing a line.

That goes to his narcissism again, of which there are no shortage of examples in his latest confession.

It’s still all about him, as exemplified by his concern for himself, when he was squeezing the life out of Shanann.

No moron, her life is over, not yours.

Atleast literally.

I can’t wait to find something to argue with you about hahaha JK

 

[gitana1]

It's official: The Rzuecks are the best people in the world. They told the interviewers to tell Chris that they still loved him. His response might just be the most honest thing he says in the interview.

What did he say?

 

[Thinker Belle]

I do think he is still manipulating some details to save face (however laughable that seems at this point).
The whole straddling her for 15-20 minutes just sounds odd. I’m sure most that have been pregnant before would agree with me that just isn’t happening and I doubt she would allow it for that long.
I’m wondering if perhaps he strangled her during sex when she was caught off guard. I just can’t see it playing out the way he described.