GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[x_files]

"Don't take her (CeCe) away", says Bella.

Good lord, my heart is shattered all over again.........

agreed, such a beautiful family.

 

[x_files]

He is. They didn't need SAVING! They just didn't need KILLING!

He's insane! He acts like they were on a sinking boat and if he had just tried hard enough he could've saved their lives.

I mean I guess that's accurate if you consider that the car ride was the sinking boat and he couldn't save them from himself.

It's just so bizarre how he phrased it. Dude. YOU were the threat. YOU were the danger. YOU were the risk to their lives.

Someone else needed to save them from YOU, murderer.

Geez.

He's a real piece-of-work.

 

[DaisyKenny]

When CW mentioned the fight they had in NC while they were still dating to show how 'fiery' SW was, he was really giving away more about himself by saying he slammed the door and got angry with her, IMO.
Apparently he was getting texts from an ex gf and SW confronted him about that.
It just goes to show you how he is easygoing on the surface until someone gets in the way of what he wants.
In my experience, people who stay in contact with their ex's (when kids aren't involved) are more likely to be cheaters.
A typical cheater would have also wanted to take full advantage of the wife and kids being away like CW did.
So I seriously doubt that NK was his first affair, although she was clearly the one he became obsessed with.

 

[x_files]

I kind of wonder if CW creates a new kind of killer profile for the FBI that could only exist in this era of society. At the end of the day, this guy was like an UberSimp. He had never been pursued by a woman before. He makes that clear. And other than Shanann he only dated a few women for short times. He even commented that once in a while a woman would have smiled at him but he didn't really know what to do with that. But because NK pursued him, he threw away all his boundaries to be led around by her, threw away everything that was in his life. He literally did not sleep at his own home while his family was in NC. Like he was her puppy. The investigator said wow this all happened so fast, you were already living with her, his reply is it was so soon after they met, and he otherwise wouldn't have, but because she wanted him there that made it different in his mind, so he did that.

All this because of a short month-long fling. So absolutely insane.

 

[mickey2942]

All this because of a short month-long fling. So absolutely insane.

Infatuation. CW seems completely shallow, with zero personality. He was a "shell" who copied others to act normally. He resented SW for her personality, and motivation.

Anything he says is probably a carefully crafted lie, to make him appear, "normal". Sorry Buddy, you killed your two children, pregnant wife, and threw them in oil tanks. The "normal" ship has sailed.

 

[gitana1]

I have watched, listened to and read everything about this case and after going through yesterday's audio and transcript I am confused and wondering if there is something wrong with me because I don't understand how Shannan's parents, especially her mom, could possibly still love him after he killed their grandchildren and their daughter. How on earth could they still love him. The other thing I don't understand is how the detectives could possibly sit in the same room as him and actually laugh with him. Is there something wrong with me because I couldn't do that.

I can't say that they still love him now. They said that before the interview began.

There's nothing wrong with you but there is a reason you aren't a top of the line investigator working the highest profile cases like these agents do. They're professionals. And they're very, very good at what they do. I mean, Tammy has a three year old of her own and is listening to that. But she can do it. If they couldn't separate their emotion from the job they wouldn't have those jobs.

I couldn't do it either. I'd probably have a hard time not crying at points. Or I would have a major anxiety attack. I mean we are talking about the cold-blooded murder of babies. Just listening to his confession about Bella, my God.

But I can relate to a small degree, as an attorney. I do have to hear awful things and keep my cool with absolute creeps - sociopaths, narcissists, domestic abusers, liars - and remain totally civil and professional while questioning them at trial or during depos or during negotiations or passing in the hall while they're acting like lunatics.

Same with opposing counsel. I have to stay calm and polite even when I think they're representing the devil. (Occasionally I do lose my cool a bit, however when they lie or do something unethical. Clients LOVE that, BTW).

But when I'm doing my job, mostly it becomes kind of clinical. Like a machine sort of. I get into this sort of zone where I'm just working, trying to catch what I need and figuring out how to use it. I know I have come across totally sympathetic to opposing parties on the stand before but then I get what I need. That's also the case with my clients. They often are all about emotion and feeling, crying and talking about how much this is affecting them. I'm impatient with that and often don't react much. I'm just fact gathering and problem solving. On the other hand, I have to use psychology a lot in order to get clients and opposing parties and even judges to understand a certain position.

When I listen to the interviews, I can hear these investigators working. Like I can almost hear their brains whirring, gathering data and trying to figure out how to get more. And while they do probably have to take a shower after speaking with him, it is also likely true that they don't view him with hate like we do. Revulsion, yes, but also interest, and not hate. Because he's a specimen to them. He's data. I can't really explain it. But they are somewhat dispassionate internally while interacting with him, and are able to express sympathy toward him despite what he is, because their job is to extract data and they're able to put aside emotion in order to do it.

But this case is among the most significant of their careers. You can hear how they admit to CW how they talk with each other over and over again about aspects they didn't understand, how they analyze this case endlessly.

I think this case is something they obsess over and they do have a lot of emotions about. Just not when they're working.

 

[gitana1]

I think all LE involved is likely “blown away” by all this. Agent Tammy is a mother herself iirc?

Yup. She has a three year old girl. Consummate professional. There is a reason they sent her to interview this wacko. She has just that perfect combination of maternal sympathy and also firmness and humor.

We are seeing the best the business has to offer. I wish I had a tenth of the brilliance and steadiness these investigators have. Shining stars.

 

[x_files]

Yeah, Chris Watts has that effect on people.

He certainly doesn’t come across as a guy with an IQ of 140.

Unless his goes up, because yours goes down.

I think that’s how it works.

Where did we learn he has a high IQ? from mommy dearest?

 

[Nessa131]

Forgive me as i am just now getting to listen- but part 1 about an hour and 12 minutes in- the le says something about a family man. Cw responds a family man doesn’t do what he or we did. He keeps referring to his self in he or we like 3rd person. It’s driving me crazy!

 

[tmar]

Wow that’s so disgusting. No wonder Bella made a comment about the smell. I thought I saw an article that said “bed” of the truck, and I thought that was risky to put her out in the open like that.. also wondered how that wouldn’t be on the video. Poor, poor girls!

As Bella commented about the smell, does a deceased person begin 'smelling' very quickly, as didn't CW murder SW, then drive them all to the tanks.
Perhaps SW had opened her bowels after death.
MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

Where did we learn he has a high IQ? from mommy dearest?

Ha! Apparently he took several IQ tests in prison.

My guess is that he traded some Twinkies for an inflated score.

I think each Twinkie is probably worth about 10 points.

That, or he really ain’t as dumb as he looks.

 

[x_files]

I can't say that they still love him now. They said that before the interview began.

There's nothing wrong with you but there is a reason you aren't a top of the line investigator working the highest profile cases like these agents do. They're professionals. And they're very, very good at what they do. I mean, Tammy has a three year old of her own and is listening to that. But she can do it. If they couldn't separate their emotion from the job they wouldn't have those jobs.

I couldn't do it either. I'd probably have a hard time not crying at points. Or I would have a major anxiety attack. I mean we are talking about the cold-blooded murder of babies. Just listening to his confession about Bella, my God.

But I can relate to a small degree, as an attorney. I do have to hear awful things and keep my cool with absolute creeps - sociopaths, narcissists, domestic abusers, liars - and remain totally civil and professional while questioning them at trial or during depos or during negotiations or passing in the hall while they're acting like lunatics.

Same with opposing counsel. I have to stay calm and polite even when I think they're representing the devil. (Occasionally I do lose my cool a bit, however when they lie or do something unethical. Clients LOVE that, BTW).

But when I'm doing my job, mostly it becomes kind of clinical. Like a machine sort of. I get into this sort of zone where I'm just working, trying to catch what I need and figuring out how to use it. I know I have come across totally sympathetic to opposing parties on the stand before but then I get what I need. That's also the case with my clients. They often are all about emotion and feeling, crying and talking about how much this is affecting them. I'm impatient with that and often don't react much. I'm just fact gathering and problem solving. On the other hand, I have to use psychology a lot in order to get clients and opposing parties and even judges to understand a certain position.

When I listen to the interviews, I can hear these investigators working. Like I can almost hear their brains whirring, gathering data and trying to figure out how to get more. And while they do probably have to take a shower after speaking with him, it is also likely true that they don't view him with hate like we do. Revulsion, yes, but also interest, and not hate. Because he's a specimen to them. He's data. I can't really explain it. But they are somewhat dispassionate internally while interacting with him, and are able to express sympathy toward him despite what he is, because their job is to extract data and they're able to put aside emotion in order to do it.

But this case is among the most significant of their careers. You can hear how they admit to CW how they talk with each other over and over again about aspects they didn't understand, how they analyze this case endlessly.

I think this case is something they obsess over and they do have a lot of emotions about. Just not when they're working.

They laugh with him to put him at ease so he feels safe to confess. That's what pros do.

 

[scdiv]

Yup. She has a three year old girl. Consummate professional. There is a reason they sent her to interview this wacko. She has just that perfect combination of maternal sympathy and also firmness and humor.

We are seeing the best the business has to offer. I wish I had a tenth of the brilliance and steadiness these investigators have. Shining stars.

They are awesome. Tammy in particular has perfected the art of disarming. I think in reality she's a total ninja warrior, but she knows how to put on the warm, friendly, I'm-not-here to judge persona. It is fascinating to listen to her at work. One thing I really like is that she does not miss any opportunity to pounce and ask the question she's really getting at. She does a whole lot of small talk, nodding, sympathizing, merely asking - and then cuts to the chase of what she wants to know, in a way so subtle that CW doesn't realize what he's walking right into.

 

[book-thinker]

After listening to the interview last night, I believe he's still living in a fantasy world.

Nightly reading Cece's favorite book to the his deceased daughters, Belle and Cece. Really!


Explains to the agents that the convicts in his pod are all in protective custody for informing on other inmates, or being sex offenders. The inmates are aware of his crimes but essentially leave him alone.

He then goes on about eventually being moved into general population and being allowed a job working in the kitchen, starting out by washing dishes, or perhaps in the library.

 

[scdiv]

I still can't get past CW driving his daughters 45 minutes out to that oil field. Coder sounded genuinely surprised at that. He asked something about loading up the girls, and CW responded, and you could tell Coder was taken back by that. It took him a second to process what CW had said and then was like, "Oh! They were still alive then.." I wonder how much talk there had been about that between the DA and LE. Was that a scenario they had even discussed? I think it had caught most of us off guard.

I just can't even fathom. I think of anyone I know, including my parents, who even had to bring a pet or animal to the vet to put down when the heartbreaking and appropriate time came. That drive is just brutal. Hysterical. Or sick inside. Stomach in knots. Unbearable. How do you even do that drive with healthy, happy daughters knowing you are going to end their lives? He is a special kind of sick and awful. And I think he still believes that he is a pretty good guy! You know, like aside from this and everything.

 

[gitana1]

Yeah, that bothered me too: How could they still love him after what he horrifically did to their daughter and grandchildren. I don't get it really. I think some people feel they are bad people if they hate, for example, someone that murdered their family member; I often hear those people say "I forgive-- so and so"
and I am puzzled by that but I think they have to think that way in order to go on. and not feel like bad people for hating that person . just my 2 cents

They're super Catholic, as I recall, and the Church is huge on forgiveness.

Take this mother, whose 7 year old was snatched from her tent by a serial killer, tortured and killed. She forgave the killer. She embraced his mother. She laid flowers on his grave after he died. Astounding to me. But she is a real Christian in my mind:

I think the Rzuecks have demonstrated over and over how special and loving they are. A cut above the rest, for sure. (I don't think I could forgive).

 

[gitana1]

I think working up the courage. Christian Longo talks about how smothering his first daughter was so horrid that he couldn’t smother the other two so he drowned them. The point being these monsters still have a few emotions. I do not think there was any rage or snapping other than him being enraged they were home and interfering with his affair.

Yes. Nodding my head while reading your post. Exactly.

 

[x_files]

It's weird. Is it possible that he just appears that dumb because he just doesn't understand how normal people feel and because he doesn't realize the effect his words will have on others?

I mean someone cited him talking about The Rzuceks crying when the girls were leaving and how that surprised him. He couldn't understand it.

lacks empathy...he's an oddball.

 

[gitana1]

I put my earphones in last night and laid on the couch and listened to five hours of testimony that left me feeling heartbroken, nauseous and in dire need of a shower.

I had read sometime back other opinions that Cc and B were alive when they left the house, but somehow could not believe it. To hear that they indeed were alive and made to sit in the back while their feet were touching the dead body of their Mother was absolutely shocking! CW was asked about the two black garbage bags found at the site, and he nonchalantly answered he put one on SW's head and one on her feet so the girls wouldn't be staring at her head and feet there on the floor under their feet (wasn't that considerate).

According to his empty soul, those two little girls sat in the back of that truck, while he dragged their Mother out and they waited while he buried her. I cannot imagine! Then, he came for them, one at a time. How long does it take for a little one to die as a result of smothering? I have no idea, but Bella waited and watched while her "hero" smothered her baby sister and watched in horror as he carried her up those steps and across the catwalk to the opening of the oil tank. As he described in the earlier police interview, he held them by their arms and dropped them in the oil. He opened the hatch of the tank at the far end first (he marked with "C" on the map at his earlier interview), as he knew he was going to dispose of them in separate tanks. BW was dropped through the oil tank closest to the stairs, as she was last (marked with a "B" on the map). He said in his latest interview that he hears BW's words every day, "Daddy, no!" He even mentioned her struggle as she fought to breathe.

I heard several things in this interview that I had not heard before. I'm sure others can remember things I did not pick up from his latest and greatest truth.

1. The two babies were killed at the Cervi site. Little BW's last cries.
2. He covered SW with a sheet and put her head and feet inside a black garbage bag.
3. Nicole (SW's best friend) was the one who called reporters and had them interview SW (amazing).
4. CW's mom is trying to get him out by saying the "LeVel" patches were to blame. If that doesn't work, she's got more ***** to throw at the wall by saying his attorneys were negligent in his defense.
5. NK knew he was married and had kids from the gitgo.
6. He hopes, in time, he can counsel and help others. How anyone could ever, under any circumstances, sit and listen to his experience and profit from it is beyond me.

I honestly watched several period dramas I have stored on my laptop afterwards (all the happy endings) to try and get the pictures of what he did out of my mind. This man is the stuff nightmares are made of, in my opinion.

He talks about finding God. God was never lost. I have read the Bible through several times, and I honestly can't find ANY stories that even come close to the horrific nightmare caused by this man toward his own family. I really hope this is the last we ever hear of this ***.

CW said no one should be defined by one moment of their life. I say, SW, NW, BW and CcW were, unfortunately, denied ALL the rest of their moments. What about them?

Great post. Good summary of all the most shocking points I think.

And what that insane monster fails to understand is that that "one moment' was the only moment that ultimately mattered. It was the most important "moment" (which stretched over a couple, agonizing hours) of his failure of a life.

 

[MassGuy]

I still can't get past CW driving his daughters 45 minutes out to that oil field. Coder sounded genuinely surprised at that. He asked something about loading up the girls, and CW responded, and you could tell Coder was taken back by that. It took him a second to process what CW had said and then was like, "Oh! They were still alive then.." I wonder how much talk there had been about that between the DA and LE. Was that a scenario they had even discussed? I think it had caught most of us off guard.

I just can't even fathom. I think of anyone I know, including my parents, who even had to bring a pet or animal to the vet to put down when the heartbreaking and appropriate time came. That drive is just brutal. Hysterical. Or sick inside. Stomach in knots. Unbearable. How do you even do that drive with healthy, happy daughters knowing you are going to end their lives? He is a special kind of sick and awful. And I think he still believes that he is a pretty good guy! You know, like aside from this and everything.

It wouldn’t surprise me if that scenario was never discussed beforehand, or quickly dismissed if it was.

It makes no logical sense that he would kill the girls at that oil site, as it would be risky, difficult, and completely unnecessary.

I loved how the investigators were quickly able to process this revelation, and keep their composure.

This caught just about everyone by surprise.