GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[MassGuy]

Hi all.. I followed this case at minimum with work and I was wondering if anyone can explain the correlation between the Wisconsin LE to this case is Colorado! Pretty please with sugar on top!

I’m not sure what you’re referring to with “Wisconsin law enforcement.”

CW was convicted in Colorado, sentenced there, and ultimately moved to an out of state prison in Wisconsin.

It was there that this interview occurred.

 

[SausagePizza]

Not sure if they asked CW about the Facebook post with the doll, with the feet hanging out and the sheet covering the body and head, prior to the murders. The one that SW stated not sure what to think of this on FB?

 

[Best of What's Around]

Not sure if they asked CW about the Facebook post with the doll, with the feet hanging out and the sheet covering the body and head, prior to the murders. The one that SW stated not sure what to think of this on FB?

They did not ask about it.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to with “Wisconsin law enforcement.”

CW was convicted in Colorado, sentenced there, and ultimately moved to an out of state prison in Wisconsin.

It was there that this interview occurred.

Yes, and to add, the interview in Wisconsin was conducted by the original CO team members - they traveled there for the interview. Nothing in the case has anything to do with Wisconsin but his current location for his own safety.

 

[Aydrianna523]

My 2 cents:
I was very glad to hear that CW had pled guilty a couple months ago, and now I am glad he gave his rendition of the events. The pieces do fit for me, anyways. I'm sure things were left out to make it more palatable...if that's even possible. I had hoped, as many had, that SW and the kids were killed in their sleep. But not so.
And there seems to be a certain amount of criminals who, understandably, want forgiveness from God and the families. He obviously is one of those. It's possible I suppose, but it certainly boggles my mind because it's so horrific.
One thing I'm picking up from these CO murderer(s) is that everything can happen so quickly and the victims don't really see it coming. So how do you know?
Wouldn't we all like to know!

 

[Gardenista]

Not sure if they asked CW about the Facebook post with the doll, with the feet hanging out and the sheet covering the body and head, prior to the murders. The one that SW stated not sure what to think of this on FB?

IMO, he would not admit it even if he did it because it would show premeditation.

 

[Check21]

I feel like CW never progressed passed the object permanence stage in toddlerhood. He mentioned that if SW wasn't gone for 6 weeks this probably wouldn't have happened and i actually agree with this. (By no means am i placing blame on her!)
In his mind, he can only think about what is right in front of him. I also think he never developed proper communication skills and that's why he always went along with everything. It was far easier for him to murder his entire family then have a difficult conversation with SW. (I still dont think he told her he wasn't in love with her anymore).
Then he was in fight or flight mode afterwards and so easily kept his emotions in check. (He had checked out).
Im just wondering what happened to him that made him stop developing at a young age?
Perhaps it has to do with Mama Watts making all his decisions for him that he didn't have to learn these skills. I don't know.. but he is definitely not right.

 

[Best of What's Around]

IMO, he would not admit it even if he did it because it would show premeditation.

Exactly. He gives accidental clues in his confession to premeditation but he can't bring himself to ever admit that. So yes, he would have given a BS answer or just said he doesn't remember. I find it tragic that it is the last photo uploaded on SW's FB page. Ironically, I didn't think much about it until CW's own father made a big show of it the second he heard CW's first confession...so clearly people close to the girls thought it was completely out of character for them to do. That it was taken with CW's phone - is just too chilling to consider. While I think it was all completely pre-planned to happen that night, I didn't think he would have it in him to play with her like that. It's just sick beyond what he has done to purposely enjoy a preview picture like that. Maybe he didn't. I guess we will never know the extent of his ill brain.

 

[PommyMommy]

Not sure if they asked CW about the Facebook post with the doll, with the feet hanging out and the sheet covering the body and head, prior to the murders. The one that SW stated not sure what to think of this on FB?

PDF pg 537, Discovery pg 604

SA CODER asked CHRIS if he recalled the incident and CHRIS said SHANANN made fun of it and thought it was funny. I asked CHRIS if BELLA did it and he said he didn’t know because he couldn’t recall. RONNIE said he was around BELLA and BELLA would only cover her baby dolls up to their stomach. RONNIE said he never saw BELLA cover a doll’s head like it was a body.

 

[opalonyx]

Cindy Watts is trying to say the patches made him do it?

It doesn't jive. He said in the interview that he has never been able to express emotion like other people. He had to Google what love feels like. He says he's been a good liar since he was a child, almost like he's proud of it. These are all things that are indicative of a problem within him that took root when he was young.

Mama Watts put so much emphasis on how well he did in school and the sports he did and NASCAR school. Where's the emphasis on his ability to be kind or loving? There were no comments like "he was always a sweet child" or anything that showed he had a heart or that having a heart is something their family even valued. They only cared about appearances it seems, and that has continued throughout this case.

Ronnie Watts didn't see the point in getting more answers for SW's grieving family and friends. Why? They don't want CW to reveal his dark side even more. They want to the public to continue to entertain speculations and theories and keep the doubt alive. They want to perpetuate the myth that he didn't kill 2 little girls and he killed his wife out of love for those 2 little girls. They want to preserve what little shred of a reputation he has left. That just demonstrates to me the kind of environment he was raised in.

The kind where a family thinks its reasonable and normal to ruin a bridal shower for their future daughter-in-law by not mailing invitations and serving food the bride can't eat and hurt their son by not going to his wedding. The kind of people who push CW to pick a side (their side) instead of encourage him to work things out with the mother of his children. The kind who ignore the allergies of their granddaughters and get possessive of the granddaughters in the presence of the other grandparents. The kind who encourage their granddaughter to disobey her mother and keep secrets from her. The kind who insist SW must have a checkered past because they felt threatened by her beautiful home and make comments insinuating she didn't deserve to possess nice things because they didn't have those things at her age. The kind who call their son's friends to trash talk his wife. The kind who say things like "he saw the light" and "he met Shanann" and they want to find the trigger of these murders. The trigger they feel MUST have been their daughter in law. The kind who praise their son in their victim impact statement and show little concern for the deceased and those who love them!

What a toxic toxic family. Where is the empathy? The cooperation? From day 1 they have been focused on sabotage instead of making amends or being civil for the sake of their son and his daughters. Focused so much on the destruction of relationships rather than being harmonious. It speaks volumes to me. MOO

 

[Heaven Leigh]

I have tried and tried to get through the Audio. I listen then Pause start again.. Pause..walk away then come back. I'm trying.
CW is so easily influenced it blows my mind. If they suggest it he seems to go with it.

 

[BioInspector]

I have tried and tried to get through the Audio. I listen then Pause start again.. Pause..walk away then come back. I'm trying.
CW is so easily influenced it blows my mind. If they suggest it he seems to go with it.

It's weird, I always assumed someone who commits such heinous crimes would be a manipulative person. On the contrary, he is the type of person that is easily manipulated by others. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone so readily manipulated and so suggestible. Maybe it's just his dishonesty in the interviews that magnifies it.

From his mom to the dynamic he had with his wife, to the mistress, to the interrogators, he's practically begging to be manipulated and controlled, and he constantly expresses his own self-imposed lack of agency. He claims he doesn't have control over his own circumstances. Consistent with this, he never could muster up the balls to actually admit to his affair. It's hard to dig out the lies and half truths from the true statements but his going back and forth about this issue makes it seem to me he never really did admit it, he just "knew she knew" and she was possibly accusing him when she got home (due to the lazy dog). But he couldn't take control and admit it and deal with it. The murder is him running away from the circumstances that he himself brought on but he himself thinks he is powerless to change. (If only I said yes to the Broncos game, it would have changed my trajectory). Truly sickening individual.

 

[kirkassoc]

I have tried and tried to get through the Audio. I listen then Pause start again.. Pause..walk away then come back. I'm trying.
CW is so easily influenced it blows my mind. If they suggest it he seems to go with it.

It was very, very interesting when he stated (near the beginning) that he would not have thought to go with the story that Shanann had strangled the girls and he then strangled Shanann, if the LE officers questioning him hadn't suggested it first. I wondered at the time if their suggestion gave him the idea. Did anyone else pick up on that?

 

[ab01]

It was very, very interesting when he stated (near the beginning) that he would not have thought to go with the story that Shanann had strangled the girls and he then strangled Shanann, if the LE officers questioning him hadn't suggested it first. I wondered at the time if their suggestion gave him the idea. Did anyone else pick up on that?

Yah I always assumed that was the case, That is a pretty well known technique by Investigators. Try to get the accused to admit to something that they see as a lesser crime, then you can start to chip away at their story.

In this case Investigators tried to get him to admit that it wasn't SR that killed the girls, but he stuck with it and they couldn't get him to break any further at that point.


MOO

 

[x_files]

Oh yeah. Not close to legally insane. But still deranged, you know what I mean? He was a threat to his loved ones, friends and society being free, even if he himself never knew it.

We use the concepts of evil or and crazy to describe these creatures. I see someone whose perception is so distorted. Who is incapable of feeling or understanding what normal people do. It's a horrifying defect and all the more horrifying because he seemed so normal, as many have said. Just a laid back, quiet surfer type guy. Snowboarder speak. Average Joe who loved and cared well for his kids, worked hard. etc. Not one person who knew him talks about sensing something off.

I encounter psychopaths in my cases but I've known a couple apparent psychopaths in my daily life. Both women. One was a nurse who was then working as a waitress at the golf course I worked at. She claimed she came out of state so she couldn't work as a nurse but I think she lost her license for some reason. It became apparent very quickly that she was at least sociopathic. She had no empathy of any kind and seemed confused by people feeling sorrow for others. She sort of grabbed my face one day to see how I did my eyeliner. It made me shudder to be touched by her. Inhuman.

The second one appeared very sweet. Worked at my old law office on a prisoner release program. Claimed to have been lured into doing some sort of fraud by her husband. Yet he was free and on the outside with her kids. In retrospect her excuse (he made the money and one of them needed to be able to care for the kids so she took the fall), was suspicious. She DID have me somewhat fooled. At first. She was so sympathetic. Her eyes would well with tears talking about her kids.

But after a couple months I realized she was doing little things to cause disharmony. She lied about me and others. She cam in my office one day and pleaded with me to realize she was a friend and ask what was wrong. I told her I knew she was a liar and could never trust her. She was arrested for leaving work at lunch when we were out and stealing from Walmart. She had stockpiled a hoard of things she had stolen. Despite having realized she was a liar and ship stirrer, I was shocked by the level of her criminality.

And yet, her nature did not take too long to come out, despite being able to fool people at first.

But CW? In his whole life no one ever came forward and said they noticed one thing. No criminal record. No people coming forward (like with Patrick Frazee) to say he was cruel or deceptive.

It is odd and he's inexplicable to me.

His parents and family noticed but didn't think anything of it because that's where he inherited his generics. They perceived him as normal, he fit right in.
Now, his teachers, schoolmates or previous gf most likely noticed red flags and just dismissed them.

 

[MassGuy]

Yah I always assumed that was the case, That is a pretty well known technique by Investigators. Try to get the accused to admit to something that they see as a lesser crime, then you can start to chip away at their story.

In this case Investigators tried to get him to admit that it wasn't SR that killed the girls, but he stuck with it and they couldn't get him to break any further at that point.


MOO

Exactly.

It’s a very common technique to offer the suspect “an out.” Once he bites on the “SW strangled the kids” scenario, the hope is to push him the rest of the distance.

They just didn’t get there.

Unfortunately, some people were dumb enough to believe his explanation, to include members of his family.

That had to frustrate law enforcement.

It’s clear now that if they could do this again, they’d bluff CW and tell him that the girls were caught alive on camera.

He said that he would have confessed at that point, and I believe that.

 

[x_files]

This man had everything he could want and he threw it all away. And for what? An affair with a manipulative, bipolar woman? Who by the way was nowhere near as beautiful or vibrant as Shannan. I’ll never understand..

I have one guess, it's most likely against TOS? not sure... (she was into kinky sex.)

 

[x_files]

I think prison suits him. As "bossy" as SW has been accused of being, CW seems to like being dominated and having structure and a routine like that. Having people telling him what to do and how to do it. He will never have to worry about those pesky bills again. Won't have to do those FB videos.It doesn't feel right. He should be miserable, but he probably won't be. I hate it.

NK was even bossier, so I agree he was/is attracted to strong women.

 

[gitana1]

Wow, just wow. I finished the audio last night.

I now do think the girls were killed at Cervi. For someone who cares so much what others think, it makes absolutely no sense to make that part up.

I do think CW covered over some parts. I think he had SW's arms pinned down and that is why she didn't fight. I think he had the blanket over the girls in such a way that they couldn't scratch him. He acted like BW didn't struggle, but then when the investigator's mention that her frenulum was ripped, he asked if her moving her head could cause that. I'd guess she'd have to be violently moving her head to cause that tear. (Awful, just awful.)

If I recall correctly, he said he never had an altercation with his parents except for nutgate (?), but then says that he said some terrible things to his family around the time of the wedding and it was a big blow up.

I also think he lied about not getting the ring out of the lexus. He made a beeline straight for the lexus and appeared to take something out. Later, upstairs, he sort of pats his pocket, walks into the bedroom, then back out with the ring.

I think he was/is a mild mannered man who just doesn't feel emotions/empathy the same as a "neurotypical" person. He even says this and seems puzzled by it. I bet he'll be a model prisoner. I do think it was a series of events that led up to this (notably NK) and that he might never have been a violent person had these events not taken place. I also still wonder if the "patch" and his lack of sleep helped "flip the switch".

I just finally heard the audio in which he describes killing the kids and what Bella went through. Pretty damn horrible. It's the worst. I can't imagine how their loved ones get through this.

 

[gitana1]

I also believed he killed them all in their beds because I wanted to believe that. It was the least horrible option I could think of.

I was searching for small mercies like a fool...like expecting water from an empty well...

I had hoped, that, perhaps he might have done what he did, with the girls being aware of as little as possible, if even only for his own benefit, so as to not have to face their suffering...

But he didn't care about how terrified, panicked and confused they were, alone with a monster that looked like daddy, a dead momma, and no "helpers" at all ... or how dreadfully long they endured their suffering,

Because hey, what does it matter?

There gonna be dead soon so they won't even remember it right? It'll be just like it never happened because they won't exist anymore...

I just can't even...

So heart broken when I saw the shadows... Heard the confession.. Uhg.


What a profoundly grotesque truth.

Yes. And I think he indeed told Bella, "Yes." When she essentially asked if he was going to kill her like he did CeCe." He said, "I'm not sure what I said or if I said 'yes' like a horrible person." Yup, that's what he said. Terrible.

 

[ab01]

I just finally heard the audio in which he describes killing the kids and what Bella went through. Pretty damn horrible. It's the worst. I can't imagine how their loved ones get through this.

It was absolutely horrible, And if you notice they had to really drag it out of him. I think that is one thing that really stuck with him! And good I hope he has nightmares about it every time he closes his eyes!