GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[kittycat3]

I think you are right. JMO, a woman who has an affair with a married man who has a pregnant wife and two little girls knows that she's playing a very dangerous game because someone is going to get hurt badly. She didn't care if someone got hurt, as long as it wasn't her.

IMO, I don't think she thought he'd murder his family, but that doesn't make her any less ruthless as far as I'm concerned. I think it was all a big game for her ego. I don't think she was even in love with CW because she certainly managed to recover from a broken heart in record speed. She was over him by the time she did her interviews with LE and was concerned only about herself and how the murders would impact her pathetic life.

All JMO

Yes your opinion, and I’m not trying to dispute that, your right to have it.

Just sharing my opinion - many people in the US are married and have affairs. Many of those I know who have engaged in such behavior are very hurt human beings who are suffering from low self esteem, amongst other things.

NK showed herself to behave very selfishly when this all blew up BUT I do think she was being fed a bunch of BS from one Chris Watts, including many many lies misrepresenting the state of his marriage and him hiding his wife’s pregnancy.

 

[kittycat3]

i hope we don't have to reconsider the "but she was gone for 5 weeks" excuse for CW straying. SW left on June 27th. Juicy texts were interchanged between nk and cw on June 29th, regarding missing the warm body sleeping alongside, wink wink role playing, and being addicted.

No, that wasn’t my intent in bringing that up, I brought it up to highlight that with SW and kids gone, would have been easy for CW to make up whatever lies he needed to to explain their lengthy absence.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes your opinion, and I’m not trying to dispute that, your right to have it.

Just sharing my opinion - many people in the US are married and have affairs. Many of those I know who have engaged in such behavior are very hurt human beings who are suffering from low self esteem, amongst other things.

NK showed herself to behave very selfishly when this all blew up BUT I do think she was being fed a bunch of BS from one Chris Watts, including many many lies misrepresenting the state of his marriage and him hiding his wife’s pregnancy.

He couldn't have hidden his wife's pregnancy from anyone who looked at her FB site. Would you believe that a person butting into her illicit lover's life to the point of demanding to know about his 401k would hesitate to check out the real wife on FB? Ask Tammy that one, I think she shares my incredulity.
Why would a woman who thought her clandestine lover was in the process of a divorce send texts, asking Are we bad people?

 

[molly1255]

Yes your opinion, and I’m not trying to dispute that, your right to have it.

Just sharing my opinion - many people in the US are married and have affairs. Many of those I know who have engaged in such behavior are very hurt human beings who are suffering from low self esteem, amongst other things.

NK showed herself to behave very selfishly when this all blew up BUT I do think she was being fed a bunch of BS from one Chris Watts, including many many lies misrepresenting the state of his marriage and him hiding his wife’s pregnancy.

The people that I have known who have engaged in such behavior are the opposite of hurt humans who suffer from low self-esteem, and this isn't gender specific. What they suffer from is a very strong sense of entitlement and some have a strong dose of narcissism included in the mix, JMO.

JMO, we can see both entitlement and narcissism at play in both CW and NK and there are way too many examples of this to even begin to list here.

 

[molly1255]

He couldn't have hidden his wife's pregnancy from anyone who looked at her FB site. Would you believe that a person butting into her illicit lover's life to the point of demanding to know about his 401k would hesitate to check out the real wife on FB? Ask Tammy that one, I think she shares my incredulity.
Why would a woman who thought her clandestine lover was in the process of a divorce send texts, asking Are we bad people?

Exactly.

 

[Only4Justice]

nope
this isn't a blaming "the woman" witchhunt.

this is the object of desire for the murderer and his visual destination.

who no doubt was highly influenced by this person (who coincidently is a woman.....)

this person also walked away scot free ...the murderer didn't.

NK is at the heart of why this happened.
now that's a fact...…
she lied and self protected and has never shown an ounce of empathy for 4 murder victims at the hands of her lover.

there will be no empathy or pass from me. she is not worthy of my understanding.

for me, you are team shanann or team Nicole. you cant be both. (that woman stole shananns husbands heart. that alone is despicable.)
non of this lessons CW of accountability. but hes got his. FOREVER.

adulterious people are sneaky and untrustworthy. some might be uncomfortable with that labelling...but its true.

moo

 

[Misy]

I think it’s pretty undisputed. I believe even Sandy mentioned it herself, that she told Chris he shouldn’t do any interviews when it was first reported that the SW and the girls were missing. He did the porch interviews anyway. Sandy said she was so glad he didn’t take her advice. My question is...why did she not want him to be interviewed by the media. I mean isn’t that what people do? Plead for the public’s help and for their safe return? SW’s friend Lauren was apparently also asked not to speak to the media initially, and then later was given permission by SW’s family to do so.

 

[cakegirl0905]

I think it’s pretty undisputed. I believe even Sandy mentioned it herself, that she told Chris he shouldn’t do any interviews when it was first reported that the SW and the girls were missing. He did the porch interviews anyway. Sandy said she was so glad he didn’t take her advice. My question is...why did she not want him to be interviewed by the media. I mean isn’t that what people do? Plead for the public’s help and for their safe return? SW’s friend Lauren was apparently also asked not to speak to the media initially, and then later was given permission by SW’s family to do so.

Because she trusted him, she loved him, and she didn’t want the media to rip him apart. She wanted to make sure he’d be protected and safe from public opinion and speculation.
It’s so sad.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Something else to factor in is that he went to an event on July 4th with the Thayers (with NK)

Is there a link to any evidence that the Thayers spent July 4th with CW & NK? I've followed this case pretty closely and this doesn't ring a bell, but I could've missed this detail somewhere...

 

[Misy]

Because she trusted him, she loved him, and she didn’t want the media to rip him apart. She wanted to make sure he’d be protected and safe from public opinion and speculation.
It’s so sad.

But wouldn’t it have looked funny if he refused to be interviewed? I realize that’s a moot point.

 

[Misy]

Agree. CW took no initiative to try to bring in extra income. He had a big income drop at the dealership and I've not seen that explained anywhere.

IIRC, around the time of their bankruptcy, Shanann's parents came to live with them in CO to help because Shanann was bedridden for part of her pregnancy with CeCe and Bella was barely a toddler. He could have easily gotten part-time work to try to avoid bankruptcy. I've seen no indication he took that initiative.

Shanann found him the job in the oil fields, according to Jeremy Lindstrom. CW wasn't making it happen and they were going down the toilet financially. Yet, she still loved him and in spite of having babies and lupus, she worked around the clock to make things happen and she was making it happen.

JMO, his income was around $70,000 at Anadarko and my understanding is that Shanann was at the same income level and would have passed him up in short order.

IIRC they moved to Colorado as they were told the weather/climate was better for SW’s lupus.

 

[kittycat3]

But wouldn’t it have looked funny if he refused to be interviewed? I realize that’s a moot point.

No, most people who are looking for their missing loved ones are too emotionally devastated to speak coherently to media, hence why it was so telling that he went on there rambling, not even considering the weird things he said....

 

[Nikynoo]

Is there a link to any evidence that the Thayers spent July 4th with CW & NK? I've followed this case pretty closely and this doesn't ring a bell, but I could've missed this detail somewhere...

No, I said in my response, it was a typo. He didn't spend it with NK but did meet up with the Thayers on the 4th. Discovery page 369 (or there abouts).

 

[Nikynoo]

IIRC, his job title was Operator, not Landman. The duties are very different. CW had an associates degree in an unrelated field and he only had three years of experience at Anadarko. He started out as a Rover.

If his official job title was Operator, his salary at the time he was fired would have been $65,000 to $70,000 per year. If he was a Lease Operator, he was making under $65,000 a year.
Anadarko Petroleum Operator Salaries | Paysa

Fab, thanks! So, this was quite a pay cut from his role at the dealership?

 

[Nikynoo]

Here are some dates. Income information is in the attached People.com article.

Frederick, Co home purchased: April 2013
Bella's date of birth: Dec. 17, 2013
Celeste's date of birth: July 17, 2015
Bankruptcy filed: June-July 2015

When the home was purchased in 2013, CW worked at the auto dealership and was making over $100,000 a year, so obviously, he's capable of making that kind of money. What happened? The attached People.com article states their earnings for 2013 were $147,256. Shanann, it appears, was earning around $35,000 a year at Children's Hospital. When they filed Chapter 7 in 2015, their stated income was $40,491 and CW was working for Anadarko. Even if we remove Shanann's income, the huge drop in combined income was the drop in CW's income, JMO.



CW explains his career change was because of carpel tunnel syndrome. Did he have a medical diagnosis? Did he have surgery? Did he file a workers' comp claim to get benefits and a settlement to help support his family? I haven't heard a thing that he did any of that. I think he shut down and used this as an excuse.

JMO, I think CW started to check out after Bella was born. His income was tanking and by the time Shanann was on bed rest during her pregnancy with CeCe, it was time for bankruptcy. Shanann's parents were living with them to help with the house and Bella. He could have easily worked evenings and weekends at a side job. But he didn't.



All JMO.

SBBM - How did you come to that conclusion? In the prison interview CW stated that SW's parents both worked whilst they were in Colorado and that they decided to go back to NC because they couldn't sell their house. Therefore, I think CW would have spent his evening caring for the girls and Shanann.

 

[NuttMegg]

SBBM - How did you come to that conclusion? In the prison interview CW stated that SW's parents both worked whilst they were in Colorado and that they decided to go back to NC because they couldn't sell their house. Therefore, I think CW would have spent his evening caring for the girls and Shanann.

Weren't the parents there for 16 months? Cw never stepped up to the plate, sw had to shield him from financial decisions after he sold his vehicle for less than was owed on it. I can just see the grin of satisfaction as he came home with that great news.
Fact is he could have stepped up to contribute more, yet he let his wife work so much harder. He had the skill set that would have allowed him to bring in significant extra money, had he felt like it, especially in an area with a vibrant oil & gas industry. My own Dad did that when possible, I at times had more than one job, my husband pulled his weight and most ppl I know stepped up to the plate to help their families thru tough spots. But cw gets pass after pass after pass, he gets to slide, creates a vacuum so other people have to carry his weight and then he murders his own BABIES, because he feels some stress in his extra-marital hanky panky. I see that the leader of the cw cult fan site is applauding that cw will be a great counselor in prison to other poor men who were subject to spousal abuse. (Yep, honest)

 

[molly1255]

Weren't the parents there for 16 months? Cw never stepped up to the plate, sw had to shield him from financial decisions after he sold his vehicle for less than was owed on it. I can just see the grin of satisfaction as he came home with that great news.
Fact is he could have stepped up to contribute more, yet he let his wife work so much harder. He had the skill set that would have allowed him to bring in significant extra money, had he felt like it, especially in an area with a vibrant oil & gas industry. My own Dad did that when possible, I at times had more than one job, my husband pulled his weight and most ppl I know stepped up to the plate to help their families thru tough spots. But cw gets pass after pass after pass, he gets to slide, creates a vacuum so other people have to carry his weight and then he murders his own BABIES, because he feels some stress in his extra-marital hanky panky. I see that the leader of the cw cult fan site is applauding that cw will be a great counselor in prison to other poor men who were subject to spousal abuse. (Yep, honest)

Shanann's parents lived with them for 15-16 months and they were there to help. The difficult pregnancy wasn't Shanann's only problem, IMO. Her big problem was the man-child who was skulking about not making any extra effort to try to ward off financial disaster while trying to appear to be Mr. Nice Guy and Mr. Value Add.

I so wish Shanann had been as controlling and narcissistic as those on the Internet have tried to paint her out to be. If she had been like that, she would have kicked him to the curb long before he ever got the idea to murder her and her babies. I think she was full of good intentions and her heart was so loving that she couldn't fathom that someone she loved so much could be so evil.

JMO

 

[molly1255]

Fab, thanks! So, this was quite a pay cut from his role at the dealership?

JMO, the pay cut for him occurred when he was still at the car dealership, in 2014, when Bella was a baby. I don't know when Shanann left her employment at the hospital, but I believe she was working at the hospital in 2014 and was making around $35,000 a year.

They had a nearly $60,000 drop in income from 2013 to 2014 and by the time Celeste was born in 2015, which was when they declared bankruptcy, he was working at Anadarko, and the total drop in income from 2013 was over $100,000. They were down to around $40,000 in income that year and Shanann was having a difficult pregnancy with CeCe. Shanann's parents were living with them around that time. to help.

At the time of the murders, CW and Shanann's incomes were about the same, per CW. If they were each making $60,000 to $70,000 per year, that's a total income of between $120,000 to $140,000. JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

JMO, the pay cut for him occurred when he was still at the car dealership, in 2014, when Bella was a baby. I don't know when Shanann left her employment at the hospital, but I believe she was working at the hospital in 2014 and was making around $35,000 a year.

They had a nearly $60,000 drop in income from 2013 to 2014 and by the time Celeste was born in 2015, which was when they declared bankruptcy, he was working at Anadarko, and the total drop in income from 2013 was over $100,000. They were down to around $40,000 in income that year and Shanann was having a difficult pregnancy with CeCe. Shanann's parents were living with them around that time. to help.

At the time of the murders, CW and Shanann's incomes were about the same, per CW. If they were each making $60,000 to $70,000 per year, that's a total income of between $120,000 to $140,000. JMO.

The mistress estimated $140 K total, and she had been poking into his finances. I suspect that in that field where ppl had specific titles, pretty much everyone knew what others were making. It does sound like they had a very attractive "attaboy" program.

Maybe his drop in income was caused by losing ability to compete in the commission-paid business with hands gone bad. Which could be why he was so happy to get rid of that type of compensation, per his interview Feb 18/Mar 7. There was a smile in his voice when he said, paraphrased, they just pay you!

In addition, CW's boss Luke mentioned several times that all his crew are family men, they let people leave early sometimes, pick up kids in the company truck from time to time, deal with sick kids & family stuff. I doubt that a person working on commissions would be paid without working.

Commission-compensated fields are for go getters, IMO.

 

[molly1255]

The mistress estimated $140 K total, and she had been poking into his finances. I suspect that in that field where ppl had specific titles, pretty much everyone knew what others were making. It does sound like they had a very attractive "attaboy" program.

Maybe his drop in income was caused by losing ability to compete in the commission-paid business with hands gone bad. Which could be why he was so happy to get rid of that type of compensation, per his interview Feb 18/Mar 7. There was a smile in his voice when he said, paraphrased, they just pay you!

In addition, CW's boss Luke mentioned several times that all his crew are family men, they let people leave early sometimes, pick up kids in the company truck from time to time, deal with sick kids & family stuff. I doubt that a person working on commissions would be paid without working.

Commission-compensated fields are for go getters, IMO.

You are so right - when you are on commission, you have to perform and you aren't paid for just showing up.

If his hands hurt, why not go to the doctor and find out how to resolve the problem? If it was related to his work, then file for workers comp. Never heard that he considered doing that to try to protect his income.

And yeah, NK had her nose in all of his business. For a mistress of a just few weeks, pretty unbelievable, IMO.