Found Deceased CO - Suzanne Morphew, 49, did not return from bike ride, Chaffee County, 10 May 2020 #16

[10ofRods]

You would agree that there is a big difference between LE lying to a suspect and LE lying to the general public or making misleading statements to the press?

I think LE goes out of their way to make sure statements to the public are accurate and thus some of the weird verbage you see in press releases or statements...IMO.

More like a paucity of verbiage. In this case, LE could hardly be lying to the public, as they've told the public almost nothing. Not even the locations of the various searches - some were obvious and people could see them happening, but apparently there are others.

 

[Dave F.]

You would agree that there is a big difference between LE lying to a suspect and LE lying to the general public or making misleading statements to the press?

I think LE goes out of their way to make sure statements to the public are accurate and thus some of the weird verbage you see in press releases or statements...IMO.

During my years as a boss in business, I had a very simple rule:
Every formal statement that someone makes under stress can be located somewhere along a line that reads:

Absolute Lie.......Personal Opinion......Unvarnished Truth

You can break down a statement into parts, and approximate where each part belongs on the line...........to try to determine what to believe. Actual placement may get a little fuzzy........is that part an opinion that is leaning in the direction of the truth, or is it a truth that is shaded by opinion? The one thing that you cannot do is bend the straight line into a circle. You cannot fuzz a lie over into the truth range, and you cannot fuzz a truth into a lie. I'm not saying that I threw every suspected lie in the wastebasket. I'm just saying that it's darn hard to sort things out if you don't know what the sorting table is supposed to look like.
So, when I read that we know LE is really building a prosecution case because we believe they are lying to the public to keep the perp off guard, I have to say that a lie (by LE) created to influence an opinion (of the perp) falls firmly on the left side of my sorting guide. There's just no part of it that falls on the right side of the scale. I just cannot accept it as truth, yet. Perhaps, with future evidence, it could slide toward the right.........but for now, it's firmly resting in that leftward side of the scale.
IMO

 

[Cassady]

I have actually had a family member go missing only to be found dead under very suspicious circumstances.

I have also handled murder cases, including those involving domestic violence.

In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

Also, committing and getting away with murder in our modern world is not as easy as some people make it out to be. Forget about the mental make-up it actually takes to be a killer. The vast majority of spouses and SI's do not kill their spouses or SI's, if we are strictly looking at stats. There is a reason there are more divorces than spousal murders. Divorce is way easier than murder and a much more practical solution for the vast majority of people who are simply not wired to kill.

IMO...Lie detector tests are garbage and serve no purpose in a missing person case. They really serve no purpose in a criminal investigation either. They might as well use phrenology. If a loved one is missing and they ask you to take a polygraph they are already accusing you of lying or being deceptive. Some people would be offended if their loved on was missing and they were asked to take polygraph. Some might agree to it thinking they have nothing to hide. Either way, the test provides zero evidentiary value and limited investigative value....IMO

 

[DizzyB]

A glaring example of this is Jeffrey McDonald's interview on the Dick Cavett show. That ill-conceived appearance led to a chain of events I'm sure he bitterly regrets now.

I was a kid who spent a lot of time on Fort Bragg back then. The general consensus on base was that there really were hippies who were involved. Every time we saw a girl in a floppy hat, we would think it was the one.

 

[MassGuy]

I have actually had a family member go missing only to be found dead under very suspicious circumstances.

I have also handled murder cases, including those involving domestic violence.

In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

Also, committing and getting away with murder in our modern world is not as easy as some people make it out to be. Forget about the mental make-up it actually takes to be a killer. The vast majority of spouses and SI's do not kill their spouses or SI's, if we are strictly looking at stats. There is a reason there are more divorces than spousal murders. Divorce is way easier than murder and a much more practical solution for the vast majority of people who are simply not wired to kill.

IMO...Lie detector tests are garbage and serve no purpose in a missing person case. They really serve no purpose in a criminal investigation either. They might as well use phrenology. If a loved one is missing and they ask you to take a polygraph they are already accusing you of lying or being deceptive. Some people would be offended if their loved on was missing and they were asked to take polygraph. Some might agree to it thinking they have nothing to hide. Either way, the test provides zero evidentiary value and limited investigative value....IMO

It’s just just about what we would do, and how we would react. It’s about how the overwhelming majority of people react to a situation like this.

You have a woman who allegedly went on a bike ride, and only have two reasonable scenarios as to what happened:

She was abducted while riding her bike.

She never went on a bike ride in the first place, and the bike was staged.

Only one person on planet earth knows what happened, at least in a general sense. He’s either responsible for what happened to her, or he isn’t. If he isn’t, then his wife was abducted.

If she was abducted, then I would expect him to do the most important thing he can do; the thing that almost every other person does when faced with a situation like this:

Speak the hell up, and help find your wife. It’s not complicated, as long as you give a damn about someone other than yourself.

Instead of utilizing the media, or making any visible effort to get the word out, it appears that BM is hoping that this all goes away. Good luck with that.

 

[10ofRods]

I have actually had a family member go missing only to be found dead under very suspicious circumstances.

I have also handled murder cases, including those involving domestic violence.

In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

Also, committing and getting away with murder in our modern world is not as easy as some people make it out to be. Forget about the mental make-up it actually takes to be a killer. The vast majority of spouses and SI's do not kill their spouses or SI's, if we are strictly looking at stats. There is a reason there are more divorces than spousal murders. Divorce is way easier than murder and a much more practical solution for the vast majority of people who are simply not wired to kill.

IMO...Lie detector tests are garbage and serve no purpose in a missing person case. They really serve no purpose in a criminal investigation either. They might as well use phrenology. If a loved one is missing and they ask you to take a polygraph they are already accusing you of lying or being deceptive. Some people would be offended if their loved on was missing and they were asked to take polygraph. Some might agree to it thinking they have nothing to hide. Either way, the test provides zero evidentiary value and limited investigative value....IMO

I am very sorry to hear about your family member (and if I didn't say it earlier, Welcome to Websleuths!)

The only times I can use my own personal experience is when someone says, "I just don't understand why women who are in domestic violence situations don't just leave!" People would say that and I would nod approvingly (because heck, there was going to be a miracle and my own DV situation was going to magically fix itself, I guess).

It is really hard to get away with murder. There are a couple of cases I've followed here (this may be one of them) where I think that might have happened - but of course cannot be sure.

I think it's a continuum of "wired to kill." For example, a couple of times my ex did things that could have resulted in a very bad outcome for me - but fortunately, I landed just right and the outcome wasn't so bad. I don't think he was trying to kill me, either. But he had poor impulse control at times (which certainly had a biological underpinning).

I do understand why LE likes those polygraphs, especially when the suspect isn't particularly savvy about how they work or what they mean. I'd be way more interested in putting the suspect on a SPECTomography. Like that will ever happen.

 

[gitana1]

I don’t see any reason for LE to encourage BM’s silence. LE would want BM to talk. BM’s silence is due to self incrimination, not to any request made by LE. IMO

Sometimes they will tell family to keep quiet if they’re zeroing in on someone and don’t want that person to get wind of anything at all. Or want that person to think the heat is on someone else. But I do not think that’s what has happened here when it comes to Barry.

 

[marylamby]

I have actually had a family member go missing only to be found dead under very suspicious circumstances.

I have also handled murder cases, including those involving domestic violence.

In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

Also, committing and getting away with murder in our modern world is not as easy as some people make it out to be. Forget about the mental make-up it actually takes to be a killer. The vast majority of spouses and SI's do not kill their spouses or SI's, if we are strictly looking at stats. There is a reason there are more divorces than spousal murders. Divorce is way easier than murder and a much more practical solution for the vast majority of people who are simply not wired to kill.

IMO...Lie detector tests are garbage and serve no purpose in a missing person case. They really serve no purpose in a criminal investigation either. They might as well use phrenology. If a loved one is missing and they ask you to take a polygraph they are already accusing you of lying or being deceptive. Some people would be offended if their loved on was missing and they were asked to take polygraph. Some might agree to it thinking they have nothing to hide. Either way, the test provides zero evidentiary value and limited investigative value....IMO

I wonder if it's just me or are others taken aback by this comment?
I couldn't disagree with you more, but then that's what makes discussion interesting.
'We' don't know what other members here, or those lurking, have been through.
I unequivocally know how I would react to such trauma and how I would expect a person in similar circumstance to.
Are there exceptions? Sure, but alarms sound when someone acts completely out of character.

Sure, committing murder is rare when compared to divorce, yet it happens. How they're wired is up to the experts but most of us have a general idea of normalcy v abnormal, curious behavior.

Again with the lie detector test. It's a tool. A tool that is used for multiple purposes in investigation. I think you're undercutting an experienced investigator. They've met all kinds of suspects and have cultivated knowledge that guides their instincts.

IMO

 

[gitana1]

I have actually had a family member go missing only to be found dead under very suspicious circumstances.

I have also handled murder cases, including those involving domestic violence.

In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

Also, committing and getting away with murder in our modern world is not as easy as some people make it out to be. Forget about the mental make-up it actually takes to be a killer. The vast majority of spouses and SI's do not kill their spouses or SI's, if we are strictly looking at stats. There is a reason there are more divorces than spousal murders. Divorce is way easier than murder and a much more practical solution for the vast majority of people who are simply not wired to kill.

IMO...Lie detector tests are garbage and serve no purpose in a missing person case. They really serve no purpose in a criminal investigation either. They might as well use phrenology. If a loved one is missing and they ask you to take a polygraph they are already accusing you of lying or being deceptive. Some people would be offended if their loved on was missing and they were asked to take polygraph. Some might agree to it thinking they have nothing to hide. Either way, the test provides zero evidentiary value and limited investigative value....IMO

Those of us who have been sleuthers for decades do know. Those whose hobby is following true crime, do know.

I too have had someone I love go missing and die along with 35 other people. I got to watch how 35 other families and loved ones reacted to that. Absolutely agonizing desperation.

But what’s key is the hundreds of cases we’ve seen here over the years. Show me a case of an innocent parent or partner of a missing person who loves that person, who fails to do whatever it takes to assist LE, regardless of risk.

Finally, again, polygraphs are an investigative tool. Anyone who thinks they’re garbage should take a look at the video of Chris Watts being given the test. Masterful interrogation tactic. And it ultimately led to quickly finding the missing parties, arresting their murderer and a guilty plea to murder one.

 

[oviedo]

It’s just just about what we would do, and how we would react. It’s about how the overwhelming majority of people react to a situation like this.

You have a woman who allegedly went on a bike ride, and only have two reasonable scenarios as to what happened:

She was abducted while riding her bike.

She never went on a bike ride in the first place, and the bike was staged.

Only one person on planet earth knows what happened, at least in a general sense. He’s either responsible for what happened to her, or he isn’t. If he isn’t, then his wife was abducted.

If she was abducted, then I would expect him to do the most important thing he can do; the thing that almost every other person does when faced with a situation like this:

Speak the hell up, and help find your wife. It’s not complicated, as long as you give a damn about someone other than yourself.

Instead of utilizing the media, or making any visible effort to get the word out, it appears that BM is hoping that this all goes away. Good luck with that.

We can do better than what? Using polygraphs to determine someone’s guilt or innocence? That’s not how LE uses them.

This conversation started in relation to the possible implications of taking or refusing to take a polygraph test when someone you love goes missing. What does it say about the person who takes it or does not?

Your advice was to never take them because they’re unreliable. And you asked whether the bar was low enough to arrest someone based on polygraph results. Of course not. And that never happens.

Polygraphs are an interrogation tool. Half the time LE probably doesn’t even care much about the accuracy. They know that they can ask a bunch of detailed questions under a high pressure situation. It’s valuable to them.

And so it would be valuable to me, as the loved one of a missing person. Or someone who had been killed.

Take my blood. Take my fingerprints. Take my dental impressions. Take my phone. My computer. Strap me up to whatever machine you think will help you eliminate me as a suspect.

It’s human nature.

Now maybe if LE had done nothing but look at me for a year and started talking about a grand jury or arrest? Then I might stop talking. Lawyer up. Because at that point I might begin to think my cooperation hasn’t helped and they’re not doing their jobs correctly. And the shock has faded. The desperation is no longer new.

What you said! Just to be clear, even though I may be 'excitable', if someone I loved (or even knew, for that matter) was missing or even murdered, I'd take the polygraph in a heartbeat, even if it was racing.
Same for any and all other cooperation. As you said, you can worry about that later.
Having truth on your side and wanting to find your loved one surpasses your own self-preservation.

Again, this has zero to do with what a criminal defense attorney would advise. It has to do with human nature and what lawyering up and failing to talk or take a polygraph says about the loved one of someone who goes missing. That’s it.

More like a paucity of verbiage. In this case, LE could hardly be lying to the public, as they've told the public almost nothing. Not even the locations of the various searches - some were obvious and people could see them happening, but apparently there are others.

And at this point we have the husband not professing his innocence - not imploring the public to look for his missing wife - Not sharing video from the home security system they may or may not have that may or may not have been working and the most problematic for me? Not a single plea from her family or the girls - just his video snippets not coordinated through LE -IMO seems as if he’s taking a page from another husband who’s wife went missing nearly a year ago while they were together when he stopped to snap a picture and she’s been missing ever since - only difference is she was on a “bike ride” alone ...
JMO

 

[oviedo]

Those of us who have been sleuthers for decades do know. Those whose hobby is following true crime, do know.

I too have had someone I love go missing and die along with 35 other people. I got to watch how 35 other families and loved ones reacted to that. Absolutely agonizing desperation.

But what’s key is the hundreds of cases we’ve seen here over the years. Show me a case of an innocent parent or partner of a missing person who loves that person, who fails to do whatever it takes to assist LE, regardless of risk.

Finally, again, polygraphs are an investigative tool. Anyone who thinks they’re garbage should take a look at the video of Chris Watts being given the test. Masterful interrogation tactic. And it ultimately led to quickly finding the missing parties, arresting their murderer and a guilty plea to murder one.

Touché
Well done @gitana1 I simply can’t agree with you more
IMO

 

[Cassady]

Those of us who have been sleuthers for decades do know. Those whose hobby is following true crime, do know.

I too have had someone I love go missing and die along with 35 other people. I got to watch how 35 other families and loved ones reacted to that. Absolutely agonizing desperation.

But what’s key is the hundreds of cases we’ve seen here over the years. Show me a case of an innocent parent or partner of a missing person who loves that person, who fails to do whatever it takes to assist LE, regardless of risk.

Finally, again, polygraphs are an investigative tool. Anyone who thinks they’re garbage should take a look at the video of Chris Watts being given the test. Masterful interrogation tactic. And it ultimately led to quickly finding the missing parties, arresting their murderer and a guilty plea to murder one.

In this case LE has consistently said that the spouse of the missing person is cooperating. IMO that means he is doing everything required of him by LE.

What evidence do we have that the spouse of the missing person is not doing things to help LE? Giving DNA, phone, car, access to other records?

And if LE has requested the family to be quiet? That would explain not reaching out to the media?

People want to assume he is not cooperating, but that contradicts what LE has said....IMO

 

[TxGidget]

We have so few actual facts. I can’t jump on the BM hate train with so little real info. We’ve been left to make assumptions and pick apart every little crumb we get. Basically, most of our opinions have been formed through voids and LACK of info. Voids in hearing what we think we should hear from BM, his family, her family, LE, inadequate missing persons posters.... I know there have been many searches with lots of boots on the ground. Where is the media? Maybe we would have seen BM and his girls searching from dawn to dusk alongside dozens of others. For days on end.
The 3-day slab excavation spoke volumes and at least was a “concrete” visual message of where LE was headed. The best footage we have is from amateurs, and I’m very thankful for them. I wish the professional media would help a girl out!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yes, none of this is normal.

I have seen this behavior in homicide investigations where there is a body, but not in any other scenario.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that the family knows what this is, even though they may not have settled on the party responsible.

If ever I get eaten by a mountain lion (ok, badger) Mr HKP better be one big hot falling apart mess. He better be turning those badger setts upside down and finding out how to work facebook to get that Find HKP page out there and out there again.

If he doesnt, search the garage.

 

[MassGuy]

If ever I get eaten by a mountain lion (ok, badger) Mr HKP better be one big hot falling apart mess. He better be turning those badger setts upside down and finding out how to work facebook to get that Find HKP page out there and out there again.

If he doesnt, search the garage.

Well in defense of BM, he did claim in that Youtube video that he searched an impossible amount of terrain, with a friend who had been on an impossible amount of deployments.

So he is doing his part there

 

[AugustWest]

Full water view or partial?
TD does this all the time. He has many videos where he just walks up, camera in hand. Look at the Vallow case. IMO

Yeah, that dude is pretty remarkable with what he has been able to accomplish recently. It takes guts to get up and offer to help out in the way he is.

 

[Tate123]

snipped for focus.
In my experience and IMO nobody handles a missing loved one the same way. I never understand how people can say "if it was me, I would..." or other similar phrases. Unless you have actually faced the particular circumstance you would have no idea how you would respond. Even if you have faced a similar circumstance, you still have no idea how any other person or family would respond. There are so many factors involved on how people react to circumstances that it seems silly to even discuss family members reactions or lack thereof.

I respectfully disagree. The gut wrenching anguish and desperation when looking for a loved one is almost universal. It is the absence of that anguish that gets our attention. Think Casey Anthony at a night club. Lori Vallow dancing on a beach. We can't comprehend. I'm related to someone missing for 27 years listed on this site. Her mother did everything she could ..all day all night. She continues to this day.

 

[TKG]

It’s just just about what we would do, and how we would react. It’s about how the overwhelming majority of people react to a situation like this.

You have a woman who allegedly went on a bike ride, and only have two reasonable scenarios as to what happened:

She was abducted while riding her bike.

She never went on a bike ride in the first place, and the bike was staged.

Only one person on planet earth knows what happened, at least in a general sense. He’s either responsible for what happened to her, or he isn’t. If he isn’t, then his wife was abducted.

If she was abducted, then I would expect him to do the most important thing he can do; the thing that almost every other person does when faced with a situation like this:

Speak the hell up, and help find your wife. It’s not complicated, as long as you give a damn about someone other than yourself.

Instead of utilizing the media, or making any visible effort to get the word out, it appears that BM is hoping that this all goes away. Good luck with that.

ITA- BBM

If she was abducted for some reason and is alive, we’d know why by now.
If she was abducted for nefarious reasons, someone somewhere would likely have spoken up by now.

Where is Suzanne?

 

[10ofRods]

We have so few actual facts. I can’t jump on the BM hate train with so little real info. We’ve been left to make assumptions and pick apart every little crumb we get. Basically, most of our opinions have been formed through voids and LACK of info. Voids in hearing what we think we should hear from BM, his family, her family, LE, inadequate missing persons posters.... I know there have been many searches with lots of boots on the ground. Where is the media? Maybe we would have seen BM and his girls searching from dawn to dusk alongside dozens of others. For days on end.
The 3-day slab excavation spoke volumes and at least was a “concrete” visual message of where LE was headed. The best footage we have is from amateurs, and I’m very thankful for them. I wish the professional media would help a girl out!

There were drone flyovers. With thousands of people going missing every day, only a fraction make it to MSM in any meaningful way and Suzanne's case has national coverage (and continuing "coverage" from youtube vloggers - more than can be said of many of the recently missing).

Salida is very small. It has a small town newspaper. I doubt there are more than 2-3 reporters. "Media" (as in TV cameras) doesn't just show up in small towns. The most infamous murder in my town got one evening of intense coverage in the L.A. market, hit a few national newspapers, and died away within 48 hours. People are lucky to keep missing person's cases in the public eye, it takes family involvement, giving media something to chew on/focus on, etc. There was only one actual reporter who put feet on the ground in Barbara Thomas's case.

LE doesn't necessarily want media coverage of its searches, hence their closing roads to conduct searches.

BM was banned from searching by the Sheriff. He says he organized his own impossibly large search. No word from him on what actually went down with that.

 

[TheRaven]

1. The Raven
   “If....IF IF IF he’s not guilty....I think when this is all over it will be clear why BM has been so quiet”
   
   If BM is innocent, it’s difficult to come up with a scenario to explain why He has been so quiet. The explanations I come up with seem pretty far-fetched.
   
   Marriage was troubled and SM voluntarily disappeared?
   SM was kidnapped for ransom?
   SM was kidnapped for revenge?
   BM and SM were in this together, and planned her suicide / disappearance?

I totally agree!!! I was just trying to think of a reason for his silence if innocent. I don’t think he is and can’t think of one reason he would legitimately need to stay quiet.