Coincidences

[UKGuy]

No, we actually know that only four red fibers consistent with her jacket were found on the tape. You are being disingenuous to state that they were 'all over the crime scene'. Likewise, I could say that unknown male DNA was 'all over the crime scene', and if all the items were tested for touch DNA, then this may well be true. We do KNOW however that unsourced fibers WERE entwined in the garrote.

MurriFlower,

IDI proponenets ususally do state that objects with unknown owners were found at the crime-scene, but this is not the same as saying foreign objects with unknown owners were found at the crime-scene. Regardless of whether they are referring to fibers, tape, or touch-dna. These crime-scene artifacts may simply be stuff that was lying about the basement discarded months or years ago, who knows? Certainly not the IDI people!


The fibers found on the duct-tape that was over JonBenet's mouth, were on the underside of the tape, and place PR at the scene of the crime, never mind those embedded into the knotting of the garrote, and PR claimed to not have visited the basement that night or the next morning.

So if your touch-dna, found in separate locations on JonBenet's person is good enough to nail an intruder as the suspect, why are the fibers found at separate locations not good enough to implicate PR?

.

 

[MurriFlower]

MurriFlower,

IDI proponenets ususally do state that objects with unknown owners were found at the crime-scene, but this is not the same as saying foreign objects with unknown owners were found at the crime-scene. Regardless of whether they are referring to fibers, tape, or touch-dna. These crime-scene artifacts may simply be stuff that was lying about the basement discarded months or years ago, who knows? Certainly not the IDI people!


The fibers found on the duct-tape that was over JonBenet's mouth, were on the underside of the tape, and place PR at the scene of the crime, never mind those embedded into the knotting of the garrote, and PR claimed to not have visited the basement that night or the next morning.

So if your touch-dna, found in separate locations on JonBenet's person is good enough to nail an intruder as the suspect, why are the fibers found at separate locations not good enough to implicate PR?

.

Kindly re-state this in a form that is understandable and answerable.

 

[MurriFlower]

I'd like to return to the Coincidences that this thread was supposed to discuss.

There seems to be a coincidence with regards to computers, so I'd like some input from everyone (particularly those who have saved the interviews that have now disappeared from ACR).

What I'm looking for is any information about Burke's computer useage. There was some information that he spent a lot of time in his room on computers and he may have been a 'gamer'.

We have a few coincidences here:

1. JR's company sold computers and programs and we could probably assume that his son would have access to up-to-date technology.

2. There's a possibility that the son of one of the main suspects may have been involved as a programmer on several of the most popular interactive games available at the time.

3. Someone who confessed to being present when JBR was murdered is know to use the internet for the purposes of 'grooming' children.

There are a few other coincidences that I'll keep in reserve for the present.

If you can add anything to this thread, I'd be pleased to hear from you.

 

[claudicici]

3. Someone who confessed to being present when JBR was murdered is know to use the internet for the purposes of 'grooming' children.

who would that be?

 

[madeleine]

2. There's a possibility that the son of one of the main suspects may have been involved as a programmer on several of the most popular interactive games available at the time.

At min 1:41

This is Jesse McR,is he the programmer?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uca78eECe48[/ame]

 

[madeleine]

why are the fibers found at separate locations not good enough to implicate PR?

.

You answered your own question IMO:

These crime-scene artifacts may simply be stuff that was lying about the basement discarded months or years ago, who knows?

And.........
PR lived in that house and obviously touched her child,her childs stuff,clothing.
The DNA owner didn't live there and has some explaining to do if he touched JB.

 

[DeeDee249]

The "pubic" hair was eventually found to be an ancillary hair sourced to Patsy's Ramsey's forearm. This is well known to nearly all posters here. Why it keeps coming up as "unknown pubic hair" is beyond me, as posters (or lurkers) here know the truth.

Patsy lived in that house, but told LE she never wore that jacket in the basement. While her fibers would be expected to be in various places in the house, they would not have been ENTWINED in the garrote knot or on the sticky side of the tape unless she handled THOSE items while wearing the jacket. The tape never left the basement. JR left it behind when he pulled it off her mouth. Why aren't HIS fibers on the tape? Or FW's as he also handled it. Patsy's jacket fibers wouldn't have been transferred from JR or FW's clothes without their own fibers as well. The tape's stick side was against JB's mouth. If Patsy didn't pull it off (which we know she did not), she put it on. The transfer could not have happened when Patsy threw herself on JB, as the tape was still in the basement. JB was covered with an afghan, anyway, and I can't fathom why an afghan would be thrown on her torso but left off her face. That horrible sight of that dead child's beautiful face in such gruesome condition would not be something that Arndt or JR (who both covered her) would have left out to view, so I think we can safely assume her face and head were covered. It has been described that her legs were sticking out at the bottom of the afghan, so a sweatshirt was then thrown over her legs.

 

[madeleine]

This is why RDI feels that these fibers are incriminating,because they come from clothes both the R's both the night before,another coincidence? (what I find even more interesting is that PR didn't bother to change her clothes after the so-called staging,JR felt it's necessary and even took a shower,WHY?)

If RDI,these fibers tell me different possible scenarios

1.They (PR,JR,JB) never went to bed that night ( I don't think that if an accident happened after they went to bed,they both put back the same clothes and they even redressed JB in the same clothes!)
2.Something happened to JB on their way home (in the car or at the Stines house)
3.They didn't go straight home (are there any witnesses who can confirm they arrived home around 9?),who knows ,maybe they paid someone else a visit or maybe they put Burke to sleep and went somewhere else only with JB?

 

[DeeDee249]

I think Patsy ran out of time. The 911 call had to be made when it was, because they were expected at the airport for a 7 AM flight. JR could have showered and dressed quickly. Patsy, in full hair and make-up, would have taken longer. I also believe Patsy did not go to bed that night.

 

[Zak]

I think Patsy ran out of time. The 911 call had to be made when it was, because they were expected at the airport for a 7 AM flight. JR could have showered and dressed quickly. Patsy, in full hair and make-up, would have taken longer. I also believe Patsy did not go to bed that night.

I agree with you that PR did not go to bed that night. I will never believe that PR got up at 5:30 and had enough time to dress, do her makeup & hair, go downstairs stopping at the laundry area and fuss with JBR's red jumpsuit, put some clothing in a bag, go down the spiral staircase & find the note, run back upstairs to JBR's bedroom, meet JR giving him the note, check on BR, go back downstairs watching JR reading the note on the floor and then call 911 at 5:52 am.. That was a lot to do in 22 minutes.

I have a question for you DeeDee. Am I remembering correcty that the red fibers found on the duct tape were from the red/gray jacket that PR had worn to the White's? Am I correct that PR did not have the jacket on the morning of the 26th, she just had on the red turtleneck sweater?

 

[cynic]

I felt a very helpless, uh, feeling as to what can I do to help solve this case. Had it been in my power, I would have called out the National Guard, frankly.
…
Mr. Ramsey, what do you want to say to the killer of your daughter?
JOHN RAMSEY: We'll find you. We will find you. I have that as a sole mission for the rest of my life.
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0502trans.htm

John Ramsey also announced that he plans to step up the search for his daughter's killer, now that he is "confident" police are looking at suspects other than him and his wife Patsy.
…
“today I am announcing an escalation in my own efforts to find the murderer of JonBenet.”
http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/23/ramsey/index.html

The Ramseys' computer site (www.ramseyfamily.com) still is up. But Wood says the family no longer has the $100,000 reward it had been offering.
http://www.acandyrose.com/12262001NEWS-JonBenet-mystery-grip.txt


O.J. Simpson's post-trial statement
10/18/96
"I'm relieved that this part of the incredible nightmare that occurred on June 12, 1994, is over. My first obligation is to my young children, who will be raised the way that Nicole and I had always planned. My second obligation is to my family and to those friends who never wavered in their support.

"But when things have settled a bit, I will pursue as my primary goal in life the killer or killers who slaughtered Nicole and Mr. Goldman. They are out there somewhere. Whatever it takes to identify them and bring them in, I will provide somehow.

"I can only hope that someday, despite every prejudicial thing that has been said about me publicly, both in and out of the courtroom, people will come to understand and believe that I would not, could not and did not kill anyone."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/nns063.htm

Q: Did he indicate to you what his plans were now that he was out?
A: At that time he said that he's – "They're investigating. They're gonna look for the real killers."
Q: Who did he say was investigating?
A: He said he's hired investigators, so...
Q: He said he had hired them?
A: Well, he said there are private investigators there and they're looking, so...
Q: Did he say these were people that he had hired?
A: I don't know. I didn't go into specific.
Q: Okay. But it was your impression that he was actively pursuing an investigation –
A: Yes.
Q: – for the real killers? Have you discussed this again with him since that time?
A: No. No.
Q: You've never discussed this investigation again?
A: No.
Q: Okay. Has he ever indicated to you the status of any investigation?
A: No.
Q: Has he ever indicated to you they have any leads as to who the real killers might be?
A: No.
Cora Fischman Deposition of March 21, 1996
http://walraven.org/simpson/cf_depo3.html

 

[madeleine]

Ugh,can't edit my earlier post.....that was meant to be "both the R's WORE the night before"

 

[DeeDee249]

I agree with you that PR did not go to bed that night. I will never believe that PR got up at 5:30 and had enough time to dress, do her makeup & hair, go downstairs stopping at the laundry area and fuss with JBR's red jumpsuit, put some clothing in a bag, go down the spiral staircase & find the note, run back upstairs to JBR's bedroom, meet JR giving him the note, check on BR, go back downstairs watching JR reading the note on the floor and then call 911 at 5:52 am.. That was a lot to do in 22 minutes.

I have a question for you DeeDee. Am I remembering correcty that the red fibers found on the duct tape were from the red/gray jacket that PR had worn to the White's? Am I correct that PR did not have the jacket on the morning of the 26th, she just had on the red turtleneck sweater?

It isn't clear. We can't be influenced too much by the portrayal of Patsy in the movie PMPT, where she is shown wearing only the red turtleneck sweater and black pants. She definitely was wearing those two items from the previous day. The sweater/jacket Patsy wore OVER that red turtleneck is the type of garment that isn't really an outdoor jacket/coat but meant to be worn like a suit jacket, over another blouse, shirt or sweater. It is part of the whole outfit, but a removable top layer. Only those who were present that morning, and Officer French, who was the first person at the house and the first to encounter Patsy, know for sure what she was wearing. That jacket was made of acrylic fleece, and Patsy was questioned as to what it was made of, acrylic vs wool, as to whether she dry cleaned it or washed it. It was determined during the questioning that this jacket, and not the red turtleneck, was the source of the red fibers that were found; they were determined to be acrylic fibers. I do not believe there were any crime photos taken of the surviving Rs themselves that morning.

 

[MurriFlower]

3. Someone who confessed to being present when JBR was murdered is know to use the internet for the purposes of 'grooming' children.

who would that be?

That would be JMK

 

[MurriFlower]

At min 1:41

This is Jesse McR,is he the programmer?

That appears to be the case. Even if not, you will notice he is filmed sitting at his computer.

 

[MurriFlower]

I'd like to return to the Coincidences that this thread was supposed to discuss.

There seems to be a coincidence with regards to computers, so I'd like some input from everyone (particularly those who have saved the interviews that have now disappeared from ACR).

What I'm looking for is any information about Burke's computer useage. There was some information that he spent a lot of time in his room on computers and he may have been a 'gamer'.

We have a few coincidences here:

1. JR's company sold computers and programs and we could probably assume that his son would have access to up-to-date technology.

2. There's a possibility that the son of one of the main suspects may have been involved as a programmer on several of the most popular interactive games available at the time.

3. Someone who confessed to being present when JBR was murdered is know to use the internet for the purposes of 'grooming' children.

There are a few other coincidences that I'll keep in reserve for the present.

If you can add anything to this thread, I'd be pleased to hear from you.

Ok, well here's one of the quotes I was looking for anyhow:

"Barbara Kostanick: "Our kids started playing together, and they became close friends. JonBenet would come to our house to play; and I would drive Megan over there. Megan also really liked Burke. He was into computer games. That's how I got to see more of Patsy-twenty minutes here, thirty minutes there."

 

[DeeDee249]

That would be JMK

Of course, we all know he was not able to be shown to be in Boulder when JB was killed. NOTHING links him to this crime. Even Mary Lacy knows his "confession" was a pathetic attempt by a sick pervert obsessed with JB to make himself famous at her expense and link their names forever. He was successful at that, anyway.

 

[MurriFlower]

Of course, we all know he was not able to be shown to be in Boulder when JB was killed. NOTHING links him to this crime. Even Mary Lacy knows his "confession" was a pathetic attempt by a sick pervert obsessed with JB to make himself famous at her expense and link their names forever. He was successful at that, anyway.

Still he is a link between pedophiles, computers and JBR. While I don't believe his 'confession' or that he was there, he apparently knows some details that he shouldn't.

I'm wondering if Burke may have been in contact on the net with a pedophile who was interested in JBR.

 

[DeeDee249]

Still he is a link between pedophiles, computers and JBR. While I don't believe his 'confession' or that he was there, he apparently knows some details that he shouldn't.

I'm wondering if Burke may have been in contact on the net with a pedophile who was interested in JBR.

I believe all the R computers were searched.
Also, JMK was not in possession of any knowledge that was already available on the internet. If he had knowledge of things that were not public (and I know at the beginning of that circus, Lacy's clowns made comments that he did, later turned out not to be true) how he came to that knowledge would have been investigated. They REALLY wanted him to be the perp- so that they could close the case and clear the Rs. The case is still unsolved.

 

[MurriFlower]

I believe all the R computers were searched.
Also, JMK was not in possession of any knowledge that was already available on the internet. If he had knowledge of things that were not public (and I know at the beginning of that circus, Lacy's clowns made comments that he did, later turned out not to be true) how he came to that knowledge would have been investigated. They REALLY wanted him to be the perp- so that they could close the case and clear the Rs. The case is still unsolved.

They did take possession of the computers, but were searching for or evidence that had been accessed. Was it common knowledge in 1996 that pedophiles would 'groom' children by pretending to be children themselves? In fact, it's the very thing that tricks the kids into giving information about themselves. Unless LE was specifically looking for it, I doubt it would have rung alarm bells with them if Burke had an 'online' friend.