Colorado Little Miss Christmas 12/17/96

[AddieBoo]

Hi all and Merry Christmas!!

Does anyone have detail knowledge of the above titled pagent that JB won?
Where it was. Time started. Time ended. Who attended from JB family etc.

Many Thanks
AddieBoo … and Charlie best dog

 

[Ponytale]

Hi all and Merry Christmas!!

Does anyone have detail knowledge of the above titled pagent that JB won?
Where it was. Time started. Time ended. Who attended from JB family etc.

Many Thanks
AddieBoo … and Charlie best dog

All I could find was this:
"On December 17, JonBenét entered the All Star Kids Christmas pageant at the Airport Holiday Inn outside Denver. Her parents watched her win several titles, including Little Miss Christmas. When it was all over, John carried all her trophies and costumes to the car. It would be her last pageant."

Perfect Murder Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller pp126 (Kindle).

 

[AddieBoo]

All I could find was this:
"On December 17, JonBenét entered the All Star Kids Christmas pageant at the Airport Holiday Inn outside Denver. Her parents watched her win several titles, including Little Miss Christmas. When it was all over, John carried all her trophies and costumes to the car. It would be her last pageant."

Perfect Murder Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller pp126 (Kindle).

Thank you. The three after hours phone calls to Dr Beoffs office were made that early evening. Trying to gather info for context.

 

[887sMtreme]

Thank you. The three after hours phone calls to Dr Beoffs office were made that early evening. Trying to gather info for context.

It’s Dr. Boef. Not being grammar bitchy, but the name is unusual and it helps to have the right spelling if you start doing searches. It’s interesting that calls were made to his office that very night. From Denver? Via cell from the car? That’s intriguing!

 

[FMB]

It’s Dr. Boef. Not being grammar bitchy, but the name is unusual and it helps to have the right spelling if you start doing searches. It’s interesting that calls were made to his office that very night. From Denver? Via cell from the car? That’s intriguing!

Dr. Francesco Beuf.....

 

[AddieBoo]

It’s Dr. Boef. Not being grammar bitchy, but the name is unusual and it helps to have the right spelling if you start doing searches. It’s interesting that calls were made to his office that very night. From Denver? Via cell from the car? That’s intriguing

It’s Dr. Boef. Not being grammar bitchy, but the name is unusual and it helps to have the right spelling if you start doing searches. It’s interesting that calls were made to his office that very night. From Denver? Via cell from the car? That’s intriguing!

From Denver?
That’s why the time of the pageant would be of interest. There seems to be a question about the date of that pageant produced in Denver. The 15th or the 17th. The time frame of the three after hour calls (from my memory so may be approximate) to Boef were 6:28, 6:50, 6:58 from the Ramsey household. PR had no memory of the calls when questioned.
Have you been able to confirm the date of that pageant in Denver or have knowledge of it? And the start and end time? So far I have only seen the pageant stated on the 17th (Tuesday), both parents attended, Jon Benet won and it was held at the Airport Hilton….
Any thoughts?

 

[AddieBoo]

Dr. Francesco Beuf.....

Thank you.
Dr Francesco Beuf. RIP

 

[Ponytale]

From Denver?
That’s why the time of the pageant would be of interest. There seems to be a question about the date of that pageant produced in Denver. The 15th or the 17th. The time frame of the three after hour calls (from my memory so may be approximate) to Boef were 6:28, 6:50, 6:58 from the Ramsey household. PR had no memory of the calls when questioned.
Have you been able to confirm the date of that pageant in Denver or have knowledge of it? And the start and end time? So far I have only seen the pageant stated on the 17th (Tuesday), both parents attended, Jon Benet won and it was held at the Airport Hilton….
Any thoughts?

I believe it was as is stated. Why would anyone lie about it? There were some people stating that Tuesday would have been an odd choice for a pageant as they usually do them on the weekends or on Fridays, but I do not think that it is some kind of a rule. It might have been strange, but it still could have happened. And if it were on the 15th, witch would have been Sunday, it would not have been doctors "after hours" because the doctor probably would have had his day off on Sunday. Anyway, I do not see why and how would it matter if it was on the 15th or on the 17th, as we know that the pageant happened.

The calls to the doctor could be strange, but also could just be calls. I see Patsy calling multiple times if she did not get on the line the first time. If the line was busy and she hoped he'll pick up the phone next time she called. I have called to my family doctor like that maybe even 9 times in a row without anything urgent having had to happen, but just to get it done because I might forget to call later in the day. IMO

The only thing what makes it all suspicious to me is the fact that Patsy does not recall making those calls later. Why hide? Why lie? Why not say "yeah I called a few times cause I wanted to schedule another appointment for Burke/JB before the holidays and our trip." or something along those lines. If she just would have said something like that, everyone would have been satisfied with her answer and it all would have been long forgotten. Sometimes I think that all this forgetting, lying and changing their stories, serves its own purpose.

 

[AddieBoo]

I believe it was as is stated. Why would anyone lie about it? There were some people stating that Tuesday would have been an odd choice for a pageant as they usually do them on the weekends or on Fridays, but I do not think that it is some kind of a rule. It might have been strange, but it still could have happened. And if it were on the 15th, witch would have been Sunday, it would not have been doctors "after hours" because the doctor probably would have had his day off on Sunday. Anyway, I do not see why and how would it matter if it was on the 15th or on the 17th, as we know that the pageant happened.

The calls to the doctor could be strange, but also could just be calls. I see Patsy calling multiple times if she did not get on the line the first time. If the line was busy and she hoped he'll pick up the phone next time she called. I have called to my family doctor like that maybe even 9 times in a row without anything urgent having had to happen, but just to get it done because I might forget to call later in the day. IMO

The only thing what makes it all suspicious to me is the fact that Patsy does not recall making those calls later. Why hide? Why lie? Why not say "yeah I called a few times cause I wanted to schedule another appointment for Burke/JB before the holidays and our trip." or something along those lines. If she just would have said something like that, everyone would have been satisfied with her answer and it all would have been long forgotten. Sometimes I think that all this forgetting, lying and changing their stories, serves its own purpose.

I am seeking the timeline for that particular day and that particular event for context.
Three calls to Dr Beufs office made from the Ramsey house the early evening of 12/17 indicates that someone was home (from the pageant?) Three calls made within minutes of each other indicates urgency to me.
But it could mean nothing or something.
To establish who attended (Ramsey) that pageant, the times of the production, start and end time etc.
As noted by several doctors, pediatric forensic specialists etc- Jon Benet sustained an injury at least 10 days prior to her murder…

 

[AddieBoo]

Does anyone have information about how/why those phone calls were attributed to Patsy?

 

[Ponytale]

Unfortunately I can not help you with any further information. There just seems to be none...
If we'd know the time when the pageant ended it would be easy to calculate if they would have made it back home by the time of the calls. There could not have been anyone else who could have made the calls if they were made from the house, or you are thinking there could have been someone else at present at home who was not supposed to be there?
Urgency to me is debatable, as I wrote an example from my own life. But again, we do not know. There are so many suspicious things leading up to that night that no one seems to recall or remember anything about...

 

[AddieBoo]

Unfortunately I can not help you with any further information. There just seems to be none...
If we'd know the time when the pageant ended it would be easy to calculate if they would have made it back home by the time of the calls. There could not have been anyone else who could have made the calls if they were made from the house, or you are thinking there could have been someone else at present at home who was not supposed to be there?
Urgency to me is debatable, as I wrote an example from my own life. But again, we do not know. There are so many suspicious things leading up to that night that no one seems to recall or remember anything about...

I agree.
However, the entire month of December leading up to the murder is one of escalation.
About the identity of the caller to doctors office- Why were those calls attributed to Patsy? Did she leave a message or was there some other reason?

 

[AddieBoo]

I agree.
However, the entire month of December leading up to the murder is one of escalation.
About the identity of the caller to doctors office- Why were those calls attributed to Patsy? Did she leave a message or was there some other reason?

Ponytail thank you for your kind responses . These forums are so valuable…
Happy New Year!!

 

[Ponytale]

About the identity of the caller to doctors office- Why were those calls attributed to Patsy? Did she leave a message or was there some other reason?

You are welcome!
Those are good questions, but again, there seems to be no facts available to the public to confirm that it was Patsy who made the calls. We do know that she was questioned about this matter by the detective Tom Haney in her 98' interview, so I would believe they must have had some evidence to base their questions on. Since they do not ask her if she was the one who made the calls but rather state it to her that she did, and ask her if she remembers, I'd say they must have known it was her. IMO
And Kolar and Thomas also write in their books that Patsy made those calls.

 

[887sMtreme]

Dr. Francesco Beuf.....

Oh good grief! Of course. Thank you for keeping me humble.

 

[Porky1]

As noted by several doctors, pediatric forensic specialists etc- Jon Benet sustained an injury at least 10 days prior to her murder…

SA injury approx 10 days prior?

The calls could have been anything given they were personal friends but in the context of JBR’s Paediatrician or Burkes for that matter, and then denial from Patsy, suggests she wasn’t willing to discuss the matter so it could have been sensitive.

 

[AddieBoo]

SA injury approx 10 days prior?

The calls could have been anything given they were personal friends but in the context of JBR’s Paediatrician or Burkes for that matter, and then denial from Patsy, suggests she wasn’t willing to discuss the matter so it could have been sensitive.

It begs the question-what info do LE have on this, because the calls were attributed to Patsy. So far I have not found any questions poised to JR from transcripts about those calls or that particular day/pageant. However, he did attend.

Yes. SA injury that forensics have noted occurred at least 10 days prior to her murder.
I agree that the topic was most likely sensitive for PR.

 

[Ponytale]

So far I have not found any questions poised to JR from transcripts about those calls or that particular day/pageant.

John was also asked about the calls in the 98' interview:

MIKE KANE: Okay. Do you know why he was -- he was called apparently in the evening on the 17th of December, three different times, do you know anything about that, why he was -- JOHN RAMSEY: (Shaking head). MIKE KANE: He has noted in his records that he was called or his office was called 6:28, 6:50 and 6:59. Do you know what that would have been on the 17th? JOHN RAMSEY: No, not for sure. Patsy was pretty quick to call for help if she, you know, if she -- she didn't let medical problems sit around. She usually just picked up the phone. She might remember, but I don't.

 

[AddieBoo]

John was also asked about the calls in the 98' interview:

MIKE KANE: Okay. Do you know why he was -- he was called apparently in the evening on the 17th of December, three different times, do you know anything about that, why he was -- JOHN RAMSEY: (Shaking head). MIKE KANE: He has noted in his records that he was called or his office was called 6:28, 6:50 and 6:59. Do you know what that would have been on the 17th? JOHN RAMSEY: No, not for sure. Patsy was pretty quick to call for help if she, you know, if she -- she didn't let medical problems sit around. She usually just picked up the phone. She might remember, but I don't.

Where did you find this?
From transcript or tape? Thank you!
“No, not for sure.” So maybe he had an idea?
And then the dropped thought after…? My deception meter just went off.

The doctor had noted in his records…?? That seems incomplete. To note three calls after hours from a patient…without any doctors response/follow up also noted…? Or maybe there was some cursory note that is publicly not known. Surly Mr Kane would have continued that line of questioning if there was…

Into Candy Rose about pageant and JR interrogation. Just glanced so far…but it looks like he is downplaying his attendance. His attendance at his 6 year olds beauty pageant in Denver on a Tuesday that she won.

Side note: Listened to“Cynics” podcast “A rebuttal…” Excellent. Excellent.
Definitive resource.

Thanks again Ponytail.

 

[887sMtreme]

From Denver?
That’s why the time of the pageant would be of interest. There seems to be a question about the date of that pageant produced in Denver. The 15th or the 17th. The time frame of the three after hour calls (from my memory so may be approximate) to Boef were 6:28, 6:50, 6:58 from the Ramsey household. PR had no memory of the calls when questioned.
Have you been able to confirm the date of that pageant in Denver or have knowledge of it? And the start and end time? So far I have only seen the pageant stated on the 17th (Tuesday), both parents attended, Jon Benet won and it was held at the Airport Hilton….
Any thoughts

Schiller doesn’t seem to mention Burke having gone to the Denver pageant. If the calls originated from the Ramsey’s home landline, might Burke have been the one calling, thinking the doctor might know when to expect them home, or for some other innocuous* reason? The Beufs and Ramseys socialized. Maybe Burke had an idea that they had gone to the pageant with his family or something along those lines.
* Not that there’s anything entirely innocuous about leaving a nine-year-old kid home alone on a school day when the rest of the family is off having an adventure….