Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

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  • #1,181
Yep you've been in a position of playing the world's police since WW2. It should be done by a separate military entity not specifically connected to any one country IMO. If you'd only had to fight your own wars you wouldn't have been in any since the war with Japan started by them assuming conflicts since then were provoked by being in said position.
 
  • #1,182
Has the brother or father ever spoken out about their observations of AL & how NL handled him and why there was such a rift in the family?
 
  • #1,183
How exactly could everyone on this site be classified as "obsessed with violence?"
I don't keep spread sheets of mass murders, I don't write stories of grandma's being shot in the head, I don't play violent video games for hours on end. I am interested in a crime solving aspect of the crime, not the violence.

I suppose it depends on the poster, but many people here have been compiling evidence on famous crimes and engaging in violent speculation. The JonBenet Ramsey case contains such graphic detail and many of these forums involve people extremely obsessed with victims they never knew who know every single detail of the violence they endured, make models of what happened, and enjoy theorizing about it. I like theorizing about it too - I am interested in the crime solving aspect as well. But most people don't have this as a hobby, and would find it weird that I discuss crimes online that have no relation to me. The spreadsheet thing is obviously a red flag, but it's not like that was easily discoverable. My point is that reading about shootings and discussing them is not all that odd, although most would find it weird that I discuss Sandy Hook online with strangers. It's not exactly normal, but it's not indicative of violence. If I started making lists of the most effective mass murders, then it's a different story. But it's not like he was on public forums fantasizing about this stuff. It was hard to track - the spreadsheet and maybe the grandma story are the things that stand out and should be focused on the most, not that he read about Columbine.

There was a gun safe - it was IN HIS ROOM (addressing what another poster said). Yes, she absolutely could have removed the guns. Clearly she didn't feel a need to. She seemed to know enough to lock them up to prevent strangers from accessing them, but didn't see her son as a threat.

Institutions could help in a tiny fraction of cases, but I know someone who works with people who threaten mass violence and she said most are not identifiable as being highly disturbed. <modsnip> The copycat aspect and being in a group viewed historically as "privileged" - I feel like our culture is big on individuality, success v. failure, personal responsibility, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but for people who feel like they can't fit in and aren't respected and can't move forward - a small number who have mental health issues will have rage building within them until they want to send a message to society. They blame society - that's why they do it. It's much harder in modern society to avoid hearing constant judgments because we talk so much about everything, and you can't keep a low profile in your home community without much awareness of how others live. We have so much information, and so much communication, and such high standards of living and levels of choices - this is mostly good, but for people who can't process it, it's bad. Some turn to drugs, some have depression, some snap. Societies with more structure and fewer choices are less likely to have mass shooters, in my opinion. People who were absolutely insane used to be let out of asylums all the time for different reasons - lack of funding and security measures etc. - it was easy to get in, but also easy to get out. Pedophiles were not even punished. Murders could hardly be tracked. Yet we didn't have these shootings - there is a reason beyond institutions.
 
  • #1,184
  • #1,185
I don't think we can use AL as a guideline to other teen school shooters, or other mass shooters at all. Sure, something is "wrong" with anyone that chooses to do this, but I don't know that any of the others literally had any mental illnesses that we know of. At least not obvious and untreated as AL seems to have been.

AL and other teen school shooters may share the desire for some sort of individuality, some sort of infamy, but that is probably where the comparisons end. (And that is a problem in the U.S., not just for teens or murderers.)
 
  • #1,186
I don't think we can use AL as a guideline to other teen school shooters, or other mass shooters at all. Sure, something is "wrong" with anyone that chooses to do this, but I don't know that any of the others literally had any mental illnesses that we know of. At least not obvious and untreated as AL seems to have been.

AL and other teen school shooters may share the desire for some sort of individuality, some sort of infamy, but that is probably where the comparisons end. (And that is a problem in the U.S., not just for teens or murderers.)

Very true. You cannot really profile school shooters or any rampage killers. Granted, they do share some common traits, they often feel persecuted and/or are injustice collectors. Other than that, there is no one clear profile of them. Some rampage killers are psychotic (Seung-Hui Cho), while others are psychopaths (Eric Harris), or just plain angry (Charles Whitman). There is the Secret Service School Shooter Report from 2002 and concluded the same, there is no profile for school shooters and rampage killers. It was before Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook.

School Shooters Profiled - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
  • #1,187
  • #1,188
Family friend Marvin LaFontaine told Lysiak he used to invite Nancy, Adam and his brother Ryan over for shooting sessions using a semi-automatic Ruger rifle.

Mr LaFontaine said Adam was "comfortable with a firearm" at the age of four.

"The Ruger was lightweight and easy to handle and, in Nancy&#8217;s opinion, the ideal weapon for her young child," he is quoted as saying in the book.

When Adam began having problems at school, Nancy reportedly saw shooting as the "perfect outlet" for "bonding sessions" together.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-to-buy-him-guns/story-fni0ffnk-1226774871409

Shooting a loaded Ruger at age 4 is crazy right there...
 
  • #1,189
Lots of articles on the release of the 911 recordings today...Dec. 4

here is a link to one

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/12/sandy-hook-shooting-911-tapes-to-be-released-97637.html

I listened to a portion of the tapes released. I would hope that all emergency assistance was already dispatched at the time the 911 operator asked the lady, "what makes you think that" when she tells the operator she thinks someone is shooting at the school. Sounds more to me like the operator was trying to evaluate the caller's mental status. This is happening more and more often, example all of the extraneous questions asked of the child visitation supervisor the day Josh Powell blew up the house and killed himself and his sons. This has to stop. If only one second is wasted asking these questions, that's one second too much.

I pray for those who lost a loved one that they never hear these tapes, as their grief will be intensified beyond an imaginable level.
 
  • #1,190
I suppose it depends on the poster, but many people here have been compiling evidence on famous crimes and engaging in violent speculation. The JonBenet Ramsey case contains such graphic detail and many of these forums involve people extremely obsessed with victims they never knew who know every single detail of the violence they endured, make models of what happened, and enjoy theorizing about it. I like theorizing about it too - I am interested in the crime solving aspect as well. But most people don't have this as a hobby, and would find it weird that I discuss crimes online that have no relation to me. The spreadsheet thing is obviously a red flag, but it's not like that was easily discoverable. My point is that reading about shootings and discussing them is not all that odd, although most would find it weird that I discuss Sandy Hook online with strangers. It's not exactly normal, but it's not indicative of violence. If I started making lists of the most effective mass murders, then it's a different story. But it's not like he was on public forums fantasizing about this stuff. It was hard to track - the spreadsheet and maybe the grandma story are the things that stand out and should be focused on the most, not that he read about Columbine.

There was a gun safe - it was IN HIS ROOM (addressing what another poster said). Yes, she absolutely could have removed the guns. Clearly she didn't feel a need to. She seemed to know enough to lock them up to prevent strangers from accessing them, but didn't see her son as a threat.

Institutions could help in a tiny fraction of cases, but I know someone who works with people who threaten mass violence and she said most are not identifiable as being highly disturbed. <modsnip> The copycat aspect and being in a group viewed historically as "privileged" - I feel like our culture is big on individuality, success v. failure, personal responsibility, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but for people who feel like they can't fit in and aren't respected and can't move forward - a small number who have mental health issues will have rage building within them until they want to send a message to society. They blame society - that's why they do it. It's much harder in modern society to avoid hearing constant judgments because we talk so much about everything, and you can't keep a low profile in your home community without much awareness of how others live. We have so much information, and so much communication, and such high standards of living and levels of choices - this is mostly good, but for people who can't process it, it's bad. Some turn to drugs, some have depression, some snap. Societies with more structure and fewer choices are less likely to have mass shooters, in my opinion. People who were absolutely insane used to be let out of asylums all the time for different reasons - lack of funding and security measures etc. - it was easy to get in, but also easy to get out. Pedophiles were not even punished. Murders could hardly be tracked. Yet we didn't have these shootings - there is a reason beyond institutions.

BBM: Two different comments I've boldened and my response as follows:

First, I think the fact that AL couldn't assimilate into society and his obvious poor mental health as evidenced in his modes of daily life are the points that need to be addressed. AL couldn't go outside of his room/basement--he couldn't even stand sunlight coming into his room. He couldn't hold a conversation, even with his own mother. A parent needs clear warning signs of what to look for and when a loved one is too far gone. Perhaps some formal criteria needs to be addressed by authorities? And adding to this proposal: parents need to know who to call or what resources are available. Some may find it too over-the-top to simply call LE and say "yeah, my son is acting just a bit wierder than his typically wierd self"......ykwim? Maybe our society needs a 24 hour manned domestic mental hotline so that parental/familial concerns get investigated by LE immediately? Maybe it could be extended to teachers and physicians/nurses if they notice mental instability in children? It could be anonymous but it needs to be investigated by LE and counselors (competent ones at that). Of course, this would take a lot of man hours, dollars, and would create controversies and lawsuits. But something needs to be done.

<modsnip>

My point is there may be multiple causative factors in the reason why a certain group becomes mass murders or serial killers. There's this: genetics, learned, social, etc.

(and as a side note, I doubt this type of forum would have the "intrigue" factor that violent offenders and criminals would be inspired by so I disagree that there's anything abnormal about keeping a watch on justice within our society.)
 
  • #1,191
Discussion about differences in races tend to bring up discussions that are neither appropriate and frankly are unwanted. Please stick to the topic and stay away from areas you know are going to bait others into responding in an inappropriate manner.

THIS CASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.
 
  • #1,192
Lysiak's book contradicts earlier reports, which suggested Nancy Lanza had not seen the state of her son's bedroom. In fact, Ms. Lanza had entered her son's bedroom in the weeks leading up to the shooting, where she would have seen windows taped over with black trash bags, violent video games scattered among newspaper clippings related to mass shootings, and "a 7-foot-by-4-foot poster on the wall with the top 500 mass killings of all time, ranked by fatalities."

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/12/newtown-an-american-tragedy-sandy-hook-book-review/
 
  • #1,193
Family friend Marvin LaFontaine told Lysiak he used to invite Nancy, Adam and his brother Ryan over for shooting sessions using a semi-automatic Ruger rifle.

Mr LaFontaine said Adam was "comfortable with a firearm" at the age of four.

"The Ruger was lightweight and easy to handle and, in Nancy&#8217;s opinion, the ideal weapon for her young child," he is quoted as saying in the book.

When Adam began having problems at school, Nancy reportedly saw shooting as the "perfect outlet" for "bonding sessions" together.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-to-buy-him-guns/story-fni0ffnk-1226774871409

Shooting a loaded Ruger at age 4 is crazy right there...

Buying your mentally ill son a gun at age four? Training him how to use it? Nancy Lanza idiot mom of the year award. CPS should have been called along time ago.
If she survived she should have been put in in jail for her part of this madness.
 
  • #1,194
Buying your mentally ill son a gun at age four? Training him how to use it? Nancy Lanza idiot mom of the year award. CPS should have been called along time ago.
If she survived she should be threw in jail for her part of this madness.
Dare I say, this was not a single woman raising her son, at this time. Ahem.
 
  • #1,195
I listened to a portion of the tapes released. I would hope that all emergency assistance was already dispatched at the time the 911 operator asked the lady, "what makes you think that" when she tells the operator she thinks someone is shooting at the school. Sounds more to me like the operator was trying to evaluate the caller's mental status. This is happening more and more often, example all of the extraneous questions asked of the child visitation supervisor the day Josh Powell blew up the house and killed himself and his sons. This has to stop. If only one second is wasted asking these questions, that's one second too much.

I pray for those who lost a loved one that they never hear these tapes, as their grief will be intensified beyond an imaginable level.

I read the reports that came out last week, I had to skip over some of the things being said as the LE entered the building. It was so sad. I don't think I can listen to the 911 calls, but maybe I could read some I can skip over things I just can't bare to read.
 
  • #1,196
Dare I say, this was not a single woman raising her son, at this time. Ahem.

Did she actually buy the gun from him or was she allowing him to shoot the friend's gun? She seemed very close to this man so maybe her attraction to guns had a lot to do with her friendship with ML. Something they had in common. Her husband seemed, from her descriptions in the emails, to have never been home. Always working. She certainly was high maintenance with all her activities and expenses she appeared to have had. She being a stay at home Mom and her husband working 14 hours a day essentially she was raising him alone. It does not appear she sacrificed herself in any way to get him the help he needed that we can see. Do we even know if she was getting professional help for him? Hopefully more information will come out.
 
  • #1,197
Does anyone have a link to the report handy? I think I need to read it for myself! Wow!
 
  • #1,198
Did she actually buy the gun from him or was she allowing him to shoot the friend's gun? She seemed very close to this man so maybe her attraction to guns had a lot to do with her friendship with ML. Something they had in common. Her husband seemed, from her descriptions in the emails, to have never been home. Always working. She certainly was high maintenance with all her activities and expenses she appeared to have had. She being a stay at home Mom and her husband working 14 hours a day essentially she was raising him alone. It does not appear she sacrificed herself in any way to get him the help he needed that we can see. Do we even know if she was getting professional help for him? Hopefully more information will come out.
I don't know if she bought him a gun, but my point is, I don't think it is appropriate or safe in ANY way for a 4 y/o to be handling a firearm, let alone shooting practice.
Also even if her husband only came home on rare occasions, it would seem impossible to think he did not have ANY knowledge of his kids shooting practice with NL. just sayin.
I believe records do show that once in school professional help was attempted.
 
  • #1,199
I've always wondered if something particular happened in Adam's home that 'set him off' ? Like, was Nancy planning to have him committed and he found out ?

If I was single and had a son that age with his problems, I don't know that I'd allow him to only communicate via email when we both lived in the same house ! As far as I'm concerned, the kid does not 'run the show' ; the parent should.
Keep in mind I am unfamiliar with Aspergers'.

Hard to say much when none of us have walked in Nancy's shoes. Only speaking for myself, here.
 
  • #1,200
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