Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

[BeginnersLuck]

In our society we hold parents somewhat accountable, for the criminal behavior of their children. Even though AL was an adult by age, he was not able to care for himself and therefore needed a guardian to take care of him. So, IMO the same rules or expectations should apply to NL's responsibility as caregiver, regardless of his age.

The responsibility that a parent or caregiver has, should include not acting in a negligent way when it comes to the care of the child or person. If it is established that NL knowing and willingly acted in a negligent way that contributed to AL actions, then she as his caregiver holds some responsibility.

I don't consider it victim blaming, if knowing and willing negligence of the caregiver can be established.

The question is was NL negligent? If she was aware of his violent thoughts and did nothing, then I would say she was.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Yes, I believe that both parents were negligent in their care for Adam.

 

[LambChop]

In our society we hold parents somewhat accountable, for the criminal behavior of their children. Even though AL was an adult by age, he was not able to care for himself and therefore needed a guardian to take care of him. So, IMO the same rules or expectations should apply to NL's responsibility as caregiver, regardless of his age.

The responsibility that a parent or caregiver has, should include not acting in a negligent way when it comes to the care of the child or person. If it is established that NL knowing and willingly acted in a negligent way that contributed to AL actions, then she as his caregiver holds some responsibility.

I don't consider it victim blaming, if knowing and willing negligence of the caregiver can be established.

The question is was NL negligent? If she was aware of his violent thoughts and did nothing, then I would say she was.

We all know NL was not an expert in the field of psychology so she could have missed some important things she never thought to question. She did have an older son who could very well have played the same games as Adam played so that may not have raised a flag to her since a lot of young boys play these games without becoming violent themselves. At some point Adam seemed to be calling the shots so maybe she just tried to accommodate him as a way to keep him close. She was the only one he had regardless of how he felt about her. Nancy was it. jmo

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I didn't accuse NL of being knowing and willfully negligent when it came to AL, even though there are things that have been stated or released that appear to indicate that she "may" have been.

Up thread, I posted some information on what I thought may have blinded her or made this more complicated because of his extensive combination of disorders or illnesses and the fact that he had them all his life.

After posting those, I read information I hadn't seen yet. Particularly, that she shared her concerns with others. It's hard to tell sometimes if this secondhand information in true or not, so I don't take it as fact.

Speaking in general though for prevention purposes of crime or abuse, I think everyone has a responsibility to take a role. Some professionals are required by law to report. Parents should also be required to take action if they see danger signs and should monitor their childs behavior and actions. Others in society as a concerned citizen should not hesitate to report if they see signs of something wrong. So it seems we need to continue to work on educating society on these issues if we are going to try to prevent these things. Since so many of these crimes are being committed by youth and other youth are ones that may be likely to see danger signs, we should talk to our youth as well about the importance of reporting.

Even if all these actions are taken, there is no guarantee that bad things won't still happen, but it could potentially prevent a lot.

 

[LambChop]

Not sure if anyone could have gotten through to Adam. He showed no empathy, no feelings and all this was masked by the fact that he was non violent. Unless Adam was violent towards his mother how would she know what he was capable of? I just don't know and we may never know. His change in behavior was that he became more withdrawn. I believe if she even suspected he was violent she would have asked for help or she may have felt she could handle him herself. Hopefully we can learn from this to help other parents who may be struggling with a child who they feel might have violent tendencies. jmo

 

[BeginnersLuck]

We all know NL was not an expert in the field of psychology so she could have missed some important things she never thought to question. She did have an older son who could very well have played the same games as Adam played so that may not have raised a flag to her since a lot of young boys play these games without becoming violent themselves. At some point Adam seemed to be calling the shots so maybe she just tried to accommodate him as a way to keep him close. She was the only one he had regardless of how he felt about her. Nancy was it. jmo

Although NL wasn't degreed in psychology, I get the impression she may have come to the conclusion at some point and time, that she knew more about AL and how to deal with him, than anyone else. I see this happen all the time, where people try, try and try counseling, different doctors and medication and end up trying to handle things on their own, by educating themselves. IMO, AL would be a extremely difficult case for any professional. I imagine each professional sought had a different opinion or advice to give NL.

I see a lot of things that NL did do that were very good and she did have a plan for what she was going to do.

I think whats so hard to come to terms with though, is the negligence with the guns. That's just a piece of it though, because I do believe that AL as smart as he was, could have devised another plan not involving guns to cause loss of many lives. "If" she really did see the drawings and other things in his room as some have stated and new of his obsession with this stuff (there were a lot of clues found in his room) and she still was reckless with the firearms, then it paints a picture that she was negligent for not taking any action that "may" have prevented this.

 

[LambChop]

Although NL wasn't degreed in psychology, I get the impression she may have come to the conclusion at some point and time, that she knew more about AL and how to deal with him, than anyone else. I see this happen all the time, where people try, try and try counseling, different doctors and medication and end up trying to handle things on their own, by educating themselves. IMO, AL would be a extremely difficult case for any professional. I imagine each professional sought had a different opinion or advice to give NL.

I see a lot of things that NL did do that were very good and she did have a plan for what she was going to do.

I think whats so hard to come to terms with though, is the negligence with the guns. That's just a piece of it though, because I do believe that AL as smart as he was, could have devised another plan not involving guns to cause loss of many lives. "If" she really did see the drawings and other things in his room as some have stated and new of his obsession with this stuff (there were a lot of clues found in his room) and she still was reckless with the firearms, then it paints a picture that she was negligent for not taking any action that "may" have prevented this.

I have to agree about the guns. I think Nancy felt she could handle him. He was her son and she was devoted to him and his condition. She could also have been in denial. How many teachers will tell you when they call the parents to report a difficulty with a student that the parent denies their child would ever do such a thing??? Ego play a large part when in comes to children. Most parents eventually get their children under control. It was never going to happen with Adam. Also if she were truly ill that may have clouded her judgment as far as her son was concerned. But I truly do not think she ever imagined he would do what he did or she would have tried to stop it. jmo

 

[iSleuth]

Remembering the angels- victims, children, the teachers, staff and first responders on the anniversary. Prayers for Newtown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elphaba]

A lot of media outlets will respect Newtown's request to let the town observe the anniversary without media intrusion. On the side of those not complying with the request: CBS News and The Associated Press will be there, with CBS claiming that they will not get in the way.

http://newtown.patch.com/groups/san...outlets-say-they-wont-come-to-newtown-on-1214

 

[LambChop]

Wasn't it CBS that paid Casey Anthony $200,000 for pictures of Caylee? What is wrong with them???? They "won't get in the way". If the parents do not want them there at all they are in the way. jmo

 

[time]

Sorry, but I haven`t seen anything about him " throwing away" Adam and his brother. From what I have read, they divorced in 2010. Adam was 17.That is an unfair statement. My husband and I are together, yet I usually deal with the school stuff. He goes to the concerts, shows ,events the kids are in, but if something was wrong and I didn't want him to know, he wouldn't. This is common with families where dad works a lot.

I believe they separated in 2001... I posted it not long ago. Peter remarried in 2010, but the divorce must have taken place long ago.

I also don't think he was 'blaming' Nancy so much, but was probably making an honest comment. However, if true, I think he should have been informed.

 

[time]

Notwithstanding all the obvious signs that something was just not right with Adam, did the subject of schoolwork or school life not come up in one of these quality time visits? I admit I do not know the whole backstory of this family. Did he sign away his parental rights?

Hey MNT...don't quote me on this, but when they separated/divorced Nancy wanted/got full authority over Adam I believe. Though I don't think that means Peter gave up all his parental rights. Somewhere on here is more about all that.

 

[LambChop]

Hey MNT...don't quote me on this, but when they separated/divorced Nancy wanted/got full authority over Adam I believe. Though I don't think that means Peter gave up all his parental rights. Somewhere on here is more about all that.

Yes, it is. Nancy had the final say. So if Peter said no, Nancy could do whatever she pleased. Also Peter seemed surprised Nancy planned on selling the house and moving out of state.

 

[LookingHoping]

A lot of media outlets will respect Newtown's request to let the town observe the anniversary without media intrusion. On the side of those not complying with the request: CBS News and The Associated Press will be there, with CBS claiming that they will not get in the way.

http://newtown.patch.com/groups/san...outlets-say-they-wont-come-to-newtown-on-1214

Maybe they (news media that shows up and disregards/disrespects their requests) should be treated the same as Westboro Baptist was during the funerals!!

 

[nade]

I know Sandy Hook has adopted the phrase 'we choose love.' Well, it seems Nancy chose love too. And her reward was to be shot savagely in the head.

The complete lack of sympathy and exclusion of this woman from memorials saddens me. Where is the sense of community? Of understanding that one of their own had tried her best to parent, driven by love and good intentions? Of acknowledgement that this person faced challenges with her son, on her own, far beyond what 99% of parents ever have to face?

People make mistakes and bad decisions - has she not paid for it enough? Her whole life has been taken and distilled into one bad decision only made because she wanted to try and bond with her son.

Her whole life was a labour of love - from painstakingly separating out his meals, to doing loads of laundry to accommodate his obsession with changing clothes, to finding the balance 'between pushing and not pushing too hard' (as she wrote in an email to a friend), to being willing to uproot her life to do what needed to be done for him - all this despite his complete lack of ability to give her anything back - like the love, affection and companionship that would define the relationship between them had he been 'normal'.

Reading Lysiak this week and hearing about her sitting in the next room patiently reading a book during his school classes as a comfort just illustrates the lengths she was willing to go to to do what she thought was best for her son.

And all this, on her own in an empty mansion and apparently without the support of her husband and older son or other support networks. I can't help but feel it is a complete tragedy that neither Ryan nor Peter had engaged with N/A in those past couple of years. Does a father or brother really just accept it when their son/brother cuts contact? Could they have done more? I'm sure it's something they grapple with.

This case reminds me of when old people die in their homes alone and their bodies are only found years later as nobody cares about them anymore. Who was looking out for Nancy Lanza?

It is certainly a tragedy that was borne of a clash of unfortunate circumstances - the breakup of the family unit, access to guns, but also NL being raised in a gun culture - this can't be overlooked.

A gun culture may be built around safety, but it is still there, normalising and encouraging the use of weapons.

If you have grown up with the attitude that having an interest in and recreationally shooting guns is acceptable and normal...well...you're less likely to balk at involving your children in that hobby as a general rule. You're simply not going to be as critical once it is a normalised activity.

Given NL grew up in a culture where guns were an acceptable and enjoyed hobby and did not see her son as a threat, logically, of course she would involve him!

I don't think we can underestimate the power of her upbringing and a gun society in her ultimately making the decision that it was a good way to bond with him.

I feel really very sad for her. She was alone.

 

[Paragirl]

In Newtown’s Wake, Gun Deaths Not Easily Tracked or Tallied

http://www.vnews.com/news/nation/world/9782402-95/in-newtowns-wake-gun-deaths-not-easily-tracked-or-tallied

Washington — Five days after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, President Obama delivered remarks in which he stressed that, this time, the national conversation about guns must lead to action. “The fact that this problem is complex,” he said sternly, “can no longer be an excuse for doing nothing.” He also spent a moment noting just a few of the Americans who had been killed by guns in the days since Newtown:

“Since Friday morning, a police officer was gunned down in Memphis, leaving four children without their mother. Two officers were killed outside a grocery store in Topeka. A woman was shot and killed inside a Las Vegas casino. Three people were shot inside an Alabama hospital. A 4-year-old was caught in a drive-by in Missouri and taken off life support just yesterday.”

 

[Paragirl]

Lessons From Newtown for Gun-Owning Parents
Adam Lanza’s unwitting accomplice: His long-suffering mother.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/12/warning_signs_for_school_shooters_what_parents_who_own_guns_should_look.html

 

[LambChop]

But truly didn't Nancy choose to be alone. She had friends who apparently she saw outside the home. Adam made the decision not to see his father but the older son should not have been barred from the home. Nancy certainly could have had her say about that. Nancy isolated herself and her son from the outside world. This is what it appears. There are special schools in Connecticut for children who have this type of disability so maybe Adam should have been enrolled where they could have helped him transition over into society. Isolation proved to be the exact opposite to what he should have had.

For all we know the father may have wanted to enroll Adam into a special school which would have helped him deal with the world in which he felt he did not belong and Nancy nixed it. We just don't know at this point. Dragging down either parent is not the goal here but to try and understand what went wrong that caused this young man to kill. By discussing it objectively maybe we can come up with some conclusions to help us understand what parents are dealing with when they have a child who has special needs.

My DD transported autistic children to their special schools in Connecticut and I can tell you they are all different. These educators are qualified to deal with each of their individual needs. Nancy may have wanted Adam to stay in the mainstream but he may have needed to be with educators who could have spent more one-on-one time with him. He did seem to respond to the one of the instructors at his school only to have that person leave to pursue another career in another state. This could have deeply affected Adam.

The fact appears to be that, yes, Nancy was alone but it also appears it was from her own choice. We do not know much about Adam's father but the choice to divorce may not have been his. The choice to move out may not have been his. We just do not have that information so it is unfair to place a burden on the Dad, or his oldest son for that matter because they may not have been given a choice. So what we are left with is what we know from what has been reported.

Most of us are trying to figure out what went wrong and not really trying to place the blame on Nancy, although it might sound that way. I think we all realize she had a lot on her plate to try and handle Adam all by herself and it clearly did not work. None of us want this ever to happen again, ever. Sometimes discussions help us understand what could have happened. jmo

 

[time]

Lessons From Newtown for Gun-Owning Parents
Adam Lanza’s unwitting accomplice: His long-suffering mother.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...rs_what_parents_who_own_guns_should_look.html

Very good article, thank you. I thought this was very poignant:

It appears that his gun collecting developed after age 14, when he had already been diagnosed as mentally ill, and had started becoming obsessed with violent fantasies. His mother saw his guns as a healthy sign, since it was something the family could do together.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

People should not be embarrassed or reluctant to reach out to others for help.

I recall a woman I lived and babysat for when I was 13. She worked but made very little money. Lunch and supper EVERYDAY was boxed mac & cheese. Her coworkers adopted the family for Christmas one year, without her knowledge. She was furious and put a stop to it. This woman didn't seek or ask for assistance because she didn't want anyone in her business. Her children suffered because of her "pride". Society doesn't help the matter when we stigmatize those that do ask for help, or we stigmatize those with mental illnesses.

Money was not an issue with NL, but pride and control very well may have been.