Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #8

[jjenny]

Interesting find which leaves me completly baffled.

How do we know that the car towed is in fact AL's car.
They might have towed somebody else's car.

 

[bourne]

There are many successful individuals with Asperger's, so why would you say she was in denial?

In denial that AL's issues were more severe than the average shy or socially awkward kid's, and that she could handle and "treat/cure" him on her own. I think she wanted to believe so much that he is "normal" (as I said in earlier post, this normal state is very hard to define and I don't even like using the word because everyone has idiosyncrasies and quirks) that she did not ask for professional help.

 

[time]

Does anyone know why the car the shooter drove to the school (seen here on a flatbed being driven away from the scene) is not registered to the shooter or the shooter's mother???

As noted in the raw police audio here (the plate # is read by LE 30 minutes and 15 seconds into the video, matches the plate in the photo above and is identified to be someone completely different) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc&t=30m15s

The car is registered to a 42 year old career criminal (several previous drug and burglary charges) who is from Norwalk CT currently living in Miami, FL.

Just throwing this info out there because it seemed odd to me. I am absolutely confident that the lone shooter is AL so please don't insinuate that I'm questioning that.

I'd be thrilled to learn your thoughts. Thanks!

Uhmmm ... well, that seems MORE than odd to me. Thanks for bringing it up. If this is true, how the heck would Adam get that car?

 

[JBean]

My curiosity revolves around what Nancy thought was really going on with AL.I think an important question is whether NL understood the true nature of what AL was suffering from.

IOW, he may have been diagnosed as having Asperger's at some point and that may have been in error and/or there was an undiagnosed underlying mental illness that was only recently manifesting itself. Many disabilities and MI are not diagnosed properly the first time around and treatment suffers because of it.

The reason this is particularly important to me is because the treatments that may have been sought out for AL may have been the wrong ones- in the past and potentially moving forward. If she thought Aspergers was the force behind his behavior, it would influence her decisions as to what she felt he could and could not do and what she should and should not do.

In order to gain conservatorship, it is most likely there would need to be a documented history of behavior supported by at least one physician- possibly even more.So, if true there would need to be some physician working with NL and specifically with AL. So this information should be somewhere, imo.

 

[Donjeta]

Thanks for the laugh.

Seriously, maybe she was afraid he'd set the house on fire, seeing as he sometimes gets into a zone (catatonic withdrawal?) according to his past teacher.

I have to say, sometimes if I don't set my kitchen timer on when I'm cooking/baking, I too forget the stove/oven is even on and living in a big house can be even more dangerous in that regard.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/15/adam-lanza-pain-loner-teacher_n_2308641.html
If he still had the pain insensitivity problem he had in high school he could have burned himself or cut himself without noticing.

"If that boy would've burned himself, he would not have known it or felt it physically," Novia told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "It was my job to pay close attention to that."

 

[Xavier]

I'm with Jennifer from the article. Something happened in the past 2-3 years. Didn't we learn that his parents divorced in 2010? Could that be the disruptive catalyst?

I think it is hard on "normal" children when parents divorced. Many feel they are the cause of the divorce and breakdown mentally, suffering depression, etc. and doing poorly in school...I can only imagine how frightened and confused it must have been for AL to face the sudden breakdown of the family unit in which his dad then quickly -- within months of the divorce (?) -- remarries and moves away, his brother leaves home for college, and now his mom is talking about moving or having him moved to a residential home/school, etc.

Yes it seems clear as day, the mother was trying to set the wheels in motion to make something new happen for her son..getting a job, joining clubs, taking courses to insure a better future, a residential home for special needs, etc...And her son rebelled against her decisions

And this meant CHANGE in living arrangements, routine. I'm learning Aspies have a real hard time with CHANGES in their routines and I've read from family members on this thread who have real life experiences with Aspies who even became physical when told they had to CHANGE their routines.

 

[bourne]

They were separated long before the divorce. It wasn't a "sudden break up."

I didn't say they suddenly broke up. Divorce and separation are very different. Separations can be temporary. Both spouses try to work things out, and often still live together. Divorces are final. Permanent.

The fact that his dad moved 100s (?) of miles away and started a new family and AL and his dad were noncommunicado for 3 plus years says a lot about the divorce having been a catalyst for AL's mental state.

 

[iSleuth]

I think these links help to explain how difficult it is for us to comprehend how AL's background some who knew him in different environments and at different ages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/n...d=2&adxnnlx=1356203359-K8t+F2lrGvWFhpE45L9q/w

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/autism-empathy-connecticut-shooting_n_2314769.html

I have taught in many types of schools and ages of learners from all over the world, and many students who were truly identified as ASD, PPD and Aspy's, etc blind...etc...people with IQ's below below 70 and above 165...Here in CT I taught a class of 100 % 16 year old medicated youth- one who I had to teach standing near while she plucked out her eyelashes. In the same class a so called "high functioning" Autistic boy ( early early intervention) was on the track team and occasionally used to leap over the desk long jump?Because he was Sp Ed. all his grades were automatically adjusted. Therefore he got good grades. He was later arrested for driving on a busy road with his feet out of the window. Another one in the very same class wrote a creative assignment for his english class in which he stated that "he hoped his history teacher would die in a house fire" His mother was kind to leave a copy in my faculty mailbox. The reason I am sharing this is to say that :

There is such a wide range of presenting behaviors and abilities with Aspergers and often these are symptoms of many other things as well . Student's needs can be mediated for better and for worse -over time as they mature. There are so many variables. Parent's choices This is why I am a big fan of Dr Howard Gardner's Multiple Intelligence Theory. It gives a better picture of our diversity We all have gifts and deficits on his scale- but for some people there is a giant gulf in skills from one area to the next and it can amount to a matter of life and death.




http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/concept2class/mi/index.html

All this JMO
Please -Pray for the victims and the first responders.

 

[HastingsChi]

How do we know that the car towed is in fact AL's car.
They might have towed somebody else's car.

The plate number matches the car taken from the scene in the photo, the car that there was extensive video footage of the police investigating this car (the only car the investigated) following the tragedy and the only car towed away on a flatbed by LE investigators. I'll try to find a link with a statement from LE identifying it as the car the shooter drove.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't say they suddenly broke up. Divorce and separation are very different. Separations can be temporary. Both spouses try to work things out, and often still live together. Divorces are final. Permanent.

The fact that his dad moved 100s (?) of miles away and started a new family and AL and his dad were noncommunicado for 3 plus years says a lot about the divorce having been a catalyst for AL's mental state.

My understanding, the two of the parents were not living together for years before the divorce.

 

[Xavier]

My curiosity revolves around what Nancy thought was really going on with AL.I think an important question is whether NL understood the true nature of what AL was suffering from.

IOW, he may have been diagnosed as having Asperger's at some point and that may have been in error and/or there was an undiagnosed underlying mental illness that was only recently manifesting itself. Many disabilities and MI are not diagnosed properly the first time around and treatment suffers because of it.

The reason this is particularly important to me is because the treatments that may have been sought out for AL may have been the wrong ones- in the past and potentially moving forward. If she thought Aspergers was the force behind his behavior, it would influence her decisions as to what she felt he could and could not do and what she should and should not do.

In order to gain conservatorship, it is most likely there would need to be a documented history of behavior supported by at least one physician- possibly even more.So, if true there would need to be some physician working with NL and specifically with AL. So this information should be somewhere, imo.

Yes BEAN exactly my thoughts too...We don't know how well NL was keeping up with her son's disability/medication adjustments...We just don't know

I'd imagine AL mental health counselors are keeping quiet on the advice of attorneys

And rightfully so...since alot of people will jump on the bandwagon to blame the mental health counselors ....and that's simply not rational, just or fair...we live in an Over-Reactionary society ...and everyone seems to have an attorney ready to go to court at the slightest notion.

 

[LinasK]

Have a link, LinasK?


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=6643

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/images/names/39.gif
Executive Order 11973 - President's Commission on Mental Health
February 17, 1977

I don't need a link, I was alive back then and have lived in California all my life. I've seen the results first-hand. So have my husband and other people...

 

[time]

My curiosity revolves around what Nancy thought was really going on with AL.I think an important question is whether NL understood the true nature of what AL was suffering from.

IOW, he may have been diagnosed as having Asperger's at some point and that may have been in error and/or there was an undiagnosed underlying mental illness that was only recently manifesting itself. Many disabilities and MI are not diagnosed properly the first time around and treatment suffers because of it.

The reason this is particularly important to me is because the treatments that may have been sought out for AL may have been the wrong ones- in the past and potentially moving forward. If she thought Aspergers was the force behind his behavior, it would influence her decisions as to what she felt he could and could not do and what she should and should not do.

In order to gain conservatorship, it is most likely there would need to be a documented history of behavior supported by at least one physician- possibly even more.So, if true there would need to be some physician working with NL and specifically with AL. So this information should be somewhere, imo.

Thank you JBean ... I think that was more along the lines of what I was thinking although I didn't express it well. that's why I wondered if his diagnosis had ever been revisited/reviewed or if he possibly had some co-morbid mental illness.

 

[iSleuth]

The plate number matches the car taken from the scene in the photo, the car that there was extensive video footage of the police investigating this car (the only car the investigated) following the tragedy and the only car towed away on a flatbed by LE investigators. I'll try to find a link with a statement from LE identifying it as the car the shooter drove.

It was NL's -The car was taped off the first thing and all day. It was reported locally that there was atleast one more gun and more rounds of ammunition in it.

 

[time]

The plate number matches the car taken from the scene in the photo, the car that there was extensive video footage of the police investigating this car (the only car the investigated) following the tragedy and the only car towed away on a flatbed by LE investigators. I'll try to find a link with a statement from LE identifying it as the car the shooter drove.

Earlier, it was said that the car Adam was driving was different than Nancy's car. Is this the same car posters have been thinking was Adam's?

 

[not_my_kids]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/22/i-was-adam-lanza.html

I Was Adam Lanza - David Frum

 

[bourne]

Yes it seems clear as day, the mother was trying to set the wheels in motion to make something new happen for her son..getting a job, joining clubs, taking courses to insure a better future, a residential home for special needs, etc...And her son rebelled against her decisions

And this meant CHANGE in living arrangements, routine. I'm learning Aspies have a real hard time with CHANGES in their routines and I've read from family members on this thread who have real life experiences with Aspies who even became physical when told they had to CHANGE their routines.

Yes, ITA. I volunteered at an autistic nursery when I was younger and autistic children need constant, consistent structure. When their routines change, however small, they react -- usually physically -- flapping, hitting their little heads against the walls, etc. We tried to teach them coping mechanisms like shaking rattles in their hands, or playing music instruments, etc. when they feel frustrated during these changed routines.

I see NL doing some of the steps to help her son adapt, but she did not seem to have sought out appropriate professional help. I'm talking about trained professionals who not only have the educational knowledge about Asperger's, but also are specifically equipped to handle Aspies' particular issues. NL had the finances. But I don't think she acquired the appropriate help. Understandably, there are all types of blockades that could have stymied her from getting him professional help -- stigmas, bureaucratic red tape, etc., so I'm not blaming her, just wondering.

 

[flipflop]

My understanding, the two of the parents were not living together for years before the divorce.

IIRC They separate in 2001 when ALwas young. He grew up with separated parents and visits/communication with his dad. The visits/communication with dad seemed to stop when things changed...they divoriced in 2010 and dad remarried, a stepmom, someone new for AL to have to communicate with when at his dads. Once again, this was change for AL, something that is difficult for him to deal with.

 

[Noniegrace]

I agree, although in AL's case, his mom seems to make most of the social decisions for him, so I have no idea why if he didn't like the barber, she won't just take him to another barber. This is one thing that bothers me. Is it about control on her part, or just that she figures, he'll react the same way towards every barber because he doesn't like to be touched?

My guess would be a different barber would make no difference, so she was trying to be consistent in an effort to make him the slightest bit more comfortable. I've read comments about OCD, so I'm thinking someone touching his hair would've been a huge issue. Also, his hair in the tech club picture is whoa.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I hate to beg to differ since you are the verified expert, but this is highly inaccurate. ASD now includes such conditions as Aspergers (high functioning by definition), ADD, ADHD, and the like. Most individuals with ASD are able to function on their own and many, with intervention therapy, CBT, and life skills training are able to live independently, or with minimal oversight. A lot of the statistics that are given now regarding anything prior to the '90's are grandfathered studies, since before that point, individuals with ASD were assumed to be retarded, and that is the diagnosis they were given. Over time, as the dx rate for mental retardation has dropped, the ASD dx rate has climbed at almost the same rate. In other words, in years past, individuals were institutionalized because it was assumed that they were retarded and beyond help. Now that we know of autism (in the 80's, it was hardly dx'ed in the U.S.) and we know how to handle it, if the appropriate treatments are rendered at the appropriate times, there is no reason to believe that the higher functioning at least 50% of those on the spectrum cannot function independently.

NMK, I may be wrong but although ADHD is at times co morbid with ASDs, it is not generally placed on the Spectrum. I also don't think SPD (used to be called Sensory Integration Disorder) is actually on the Spectrum, but shares many commonalities....(i just included SPD because I see a lot of this one, too)

I know there are some studies out there regarding ADHD:ADD being included as part of the spectrum, but I haven't seen anything definitive. Again, it may have recently been changed, but I know my child's dx as ADHD is not one of ASD.

And I am acronymed out! LOL