Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty One

[bravowhisky]

And they're back. Walgren is questioning Dr. White about guidelines on the use of anesthesia by non-anesthesiologists.

Judge Pastor's usual sunny disposition has seemed to disappear, even after the lunch break.

Should be interesting to see Flanagan's re-cross, considering his propensity to make witness testimony even more confusing, which is the last thing Dr. White needs.

 

[borndem]

That is why he is trying to save CM. If CM's licenses are revoked, he could kiss those payments goodbye.

Really -- do you think so?? Is that how it works? A contingency -- no tickee, no laundree?

I had no idea. (Naivete again, I guess).

Gee whillakers, Lassie!

 

[Credence]

Is a drip used for conscious or light sedation?

It can be used via drip depending on what the procedure is for and how long they need to keep you under or it can be given via syringe. A 25mg would only keep you out for 4-5 minutes which is why it doesn't make sense that CM gave that amount. Why would MJ only want to sleep for 5 minutes and be woken up by noise? Usually you give someone a bolus injection and then give an infusion if someone needs to be out longer.

Due to the length of time you would be out; how would someone watch their patient for minimum of 15 minutes? It just does not make sense to me unless I am missing something

 

[outofstatelawyer]

I could be wrong but I think the redirect has to be from the same lawyer that did the direct. I don't think they can change midstream.

Lawyers out there...chime in here please.

The general rule is: "One Lawyer Per Witness". I've never actually seen it written down anywhere, but it's more designed to prevent multiple lawyers on the same side making objections. In this case, Flanagan clearly understands the "science" better than Chernoff, and I doubt this DT will take any chances in further irritating this judge today.

Oh, in case you're wondering why there's a contempt hearing down the road on the "" comments, but White was fined $1000 for his behavior today: it's because the latter contempt was committed in front of the judge. -gate, OTOH, took place where the judge didn't hear it, thus he will have to have a hearing on that contempt with witnesses, etc.

 

[Thundar]

Witness has gone from sipping his water to gulping it inbetween reading off the guidelines and agreeing with them. Witness is also trying to comfort himself by swinging his chair from side to side.

Witness again stated he would not administer propofol in the home setting.

I might feel sorry for the witness if he had not already proven that he would stretch the truth until it breaks for money.

 

[MsBashterd]

No really WTF?? Dr White keeps revering that the guidelines are for someone having a procedure not for "off Label" administration....uhhh I am freakin sorry but Propofal doesnt know the damn difference now does it. Now matter what setting the guidelines should be the same....

Someone shoot me NOW. Smoke and mirror answer

 

[Plumeria5]

Witness has gone from sipping his water to gulping it inbetween reading off the guidelines and agreeing with them. Witness is also trying to comfort himself by swinging his chair from side to side.

Witness again stated he would not administer propofol in the home setting.

I might feel sorry for the witness if he had not already proven that he would stretch the truth until it breaks for money.

He also developed a sudden cold.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

His standards of care seem to matter somewhat less when it takes place in MJ's bedroom. I would assume the "gold standard" went for everyone.

 

[borndem]

I'd be hesitant to even ask him to peer review any articles or even accept any he writes at this point.

IMO

Agreed. I wonder how many of his, or Shafer's colleagues might be watching this... Also how many other anesthesiologists are watching, or keeping up with this?? I certainly would be if I were a anesthesiologist.

Is White giving anesthesiologists a bad name?? Interesting, seems t me.

 

[Credence]

Witness has gone from sipping his water to gulping it inbetween reading off the guidelines and agreeing with them. Witness is also trying to comfort himself by swinging his chair from side to side.

Witness again stated he would not administer propofol in the home setting.

I might feel sorry for the witness if he had not already proven that he would stretch the truth until it breaks for money.

He admits it shouldn't be given in a home setting then says in the next breath you wouldn't necessarily need all of the equipment? Why would there be a difference? Either you need monitoring under anesthesia or not? Obviously the equipment would not be available - so you would have to supply it.

ETA: Seems it would be more necessary in a home setting because you don't have any fall back in the event of an emergency

 

[bravowhisky]

CM is conferring with Chernoff as Walgren prepares some documents. CM does not look happy.

Walgren has eroded Dr. White's testimony pretty extensively -- he's gotten Dr. White to admit that the standards of care are a "good idea" even when just providing a bolus dose of propofol, not an infusion.

 

[peace9274]

My observations again:
Dr White's nose looks more RED than it did prior to lunch break.

Red nose may indicate:
1. Crying
2. Too much booze

I wonder if Dr White was doing 1, 2, both, or neither.

Also: Does Dr White have a band-aid on the bridge of his nose?

 

[Plumeria5]

http://www.sunmedicalstore.com/products/Ambu-Bags.html

$270 the cost of Michael Jackson's life

 

[borndem]

Right now, White seems a bit more amenable to his questions -- maybe JP scared him a bit with his charge of contempt. Or maybe White has his own private stash of lorazepam. Something is making him a bit nicer, seems to me. For how long?

 

[bravowhisky]

My observations again:
Dr White's nose looks more RED than it did prior to lunch break.

Red nose may indicates:
1. Crying
2. Too much booze

I wonder if Dr White was doing 1, 2, both, or neither.

Also: Does Dr White have a band-aid on the bridge of his nose?

I imagine Dr. White spending the entire lunch break washing his face in the bathroom sink and giving himself a good hard look in the mirror.

 

[Thundar]

He admits it shouldn't be given in a home setting then says in the next breath you wouldn't necessarily need all of the equipment? Why would there be a difference? Either you need monitoring under anesthesia or not? Obviously the equipment would not be available - so you would have to supply it.

ETA: Seems it would be more necessary in a home setting because you don't have any fall back in the event of an emergency

It's amazing the amount of loyalty that money will purchase, isn't it?

The graph they were showing was the one with + - 50% certainty. The one Dr. White's assistant made up after watching the trial on tv. Such a good assistant.

 

[peace9274]

My observations again:
Dr White's nose looks more RED than it did prior to lunch break.

Red nose may indicate:
1. Crying
2. Too much booze

I wonder if Dr White was doing 1, 2, both, or neither.

Also: Does Dr White have a band-aid on the bridge of his nose?

After reading Plumeria's post: "He also developed a sudden cold.".......

I'll give him the benefit of doubt & say his red nose is caused by # 3 blowing it.

 

[Credence]

OMG - he is testifying based on another expert's data?

Dr. Shafer is a propofol expert as well as an expert in pharmacokinetics.

ETA: He does not even know how to interpret the data on the graph because he does not understand it himself. (Compressed my foot)

 

[Thundar]

OMG - he is testifying based on another expert's data?

Dr. Shafer is a propofol expert as well as an expert in pharmacokinetics.

These are the graphs his assistant made and he brought to court with the defense. Walgren just asked him if he could take any credit in making these graphs or doing the simulation. Witness got a deer caught in the headlights look.

These are not Dr. Shaffer's graphs.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

Right now, White seems a bit more amenable to his questions -- maybe JP scared him a bit with his charge of contempt. Or maybe White has his own private stash of lorazepam. Something is making him a bit nicer, seems to me. For how long?

I suspect Flanagan may also have told him to knock off the BS. Acting like an evasive idiot isn't doing CM any good, and Flanagan knows this. This is one of the reasons I asked if White had ever testified as an expert before. A good expert will not provide the other side's attorney a huge target.