Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #47

[tresir2012]

Why the heck would they start with schools? Unless they're going to have staggered schedules. I'd think they'd start with parks (and limiting numbers of people who can enter and the kind of groups who enter).

Why not religious institutions first and see how it goes? We'd learn a lot from that experience and it's a voluntary experience (as are parks).

What am I missing here?

Kids seem to not be affected as much. They maybe get it but are either immune or asymptomatic. Not really sure but they have not supposed to be seeing Grandparents who are a high risk group so maybe they think kids have social distancesd enough to not be contagious any more. Eventually we will know more about this virus but it is probably very low risk in schools. In UK, some schools have still been open for kids of NHS and essential workers anyway.

 

[tresir2012]

From this photo, where is the 'social distancing'????

This was Feb 24th. It wasnt declared a pandemic till 11th Mar IIRC.

 

[tmar]

This was Feb 24th. It wasnt declared a pandemic till 11th Mar IIRC.

Thanks, I'll delete my comment.

 

[katydid23]

Were they rich? The cheapest one we could find was $30,000. I just ended up using our small home pasteurizer.

Not rich, really, ....but it was a very large dairy farm. He was actually the head of the San Joaquin Valley Dairyman's Association in the 50's and 60's.

So I am sure that large machinery cost a pretty penny. His dairy fields were so large we had to drive around in an old truck to check out all the cows and calves.

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah - I guess so (and because kids really aren't dying in big numbers, right?)

So teachers will become the next occupational group to be impacted. Most districts will be need to offer medically compromised/at risk teachers the option to stay out of the classroom (huge liability since the risk factors are well established). Para-educators will need to be employed and trained quickly.

It will be interesting to see if it's just K-12 and not the colleges/universities (who have some ability to function independently). That will be quite telling about the level of risk they expect K-12 teachers to take. There will be a high need for substitutes, as teachers get sick (N95 masks and goggles for teachers? Really? Does FEMA have those things, I wonder?)

Or are teachers supposed to wear bandanas? Cotton masks? Oof. Not good for prolonged exposure with asymptomatic carriers, which is what kids are.

Thing is though teachers were not a group who seem to have been impacted by it and they were teaching kids right up to March. So maybe kids aren't contagious. I just don't know what to believe anymore. All these grandparents have been isolating for nothing or what is the deal?

 

[tmar]

Coronavirus Australia live news: Australia 'leading the world' in detecting COVID-19 cases, restrictions in place for at least another four weeks

11 hrs ago
...
ABC News

• Attention of Government "has now been turning to the road out, having worked through the road in"
• Mr Morrison warned the country must prepare for some "very sobering news" in terms of the economy in the months ahead
• Mr Morrison said Australia is "doing relatively well" at suppressing coronavirus
• Australia is not planning to eradicate the disease, although acknowledged this could be a byproduct of the current approach due to the economic impact. Neither is it looking to develop herd immunity
• There are three goals that need to be in place before lifting restrictions: More "sentinel testing", increased "industrial capability" tracing and greater local response capability
• Mr Morrison said Australia "has one of the most extensive testing regimes in the world today" but still "needs broader testing"
• There are no plans to change the social restrictions for the next four weeks
• Mr Morrison said economic "lifelines" will run for six months, but could change depending on the circumstances, the health and economic advice at the time

• Restarting some elective surgeries will be considered on Tuesday, including IVF procedures
• Mr Morrison released a list of seven national principles for schools but added that schools were state responsibilities
• "The health advice has been consistent that for children schools are a safe space for children," Mr Morrison said.
• National Cabinet agreed a financial plan for people with disabilities building on $1 billion in financial assistance for NDIS providers to support increased costs and maintaining business viability
• If employers are withholding JobKeeper payments from staff, the Prime Minister said they should be reported to the police and ATO, saying it is "appalling behaviour"
• The Prime Minister said despite having "valid criticisms" of the WHO, Australia would continue working with them

 

[tmar]

Coronavirus Australia live news: Australia 'leading the world' in detecting COVID-19 cases, restrictions in place for at least another four weeks

11 hrs ago

.......
Professor Murphy's comments: PROF BRENDAN MURPHY IS AUSTRALIA'S CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER.

• Australia currently has 6,457 cases, there have been 63 deaths with 42 people currently on ventilators
• There have been less than 50 new cases per day "for the last few days".
• Professor Murphy said: "If we relax the distancing measures that are stopping or reducing that community transmission, that will inevitably lead to some more outbreaks of community transmission"
• "We can't afford to do relaxation until we have a public health system which is so finely tuned that it can detect and respond to any outbreak"
• "All of our states and territories have a very high symptomatic case detection rate. What that tells you is that our testing regiment, our surveillance regiment, is highly effective," Professor Murphy said.
• "Our public health system is one of the best in the world … But we just have to hold the course while we get ourselves completely ready so that we can live through these next difficult months together"
• A London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine Model shows Australia is currently detecting 92 per cent of all symptomatic cases, according to Australia's figures
• The model published in London estimates Australia has the best symptomatic detection record in the world at 84 per cent
• the effective reproduction rate is well below one in most states, which is "showing that the epidemic is reducing".
• ....

 

[katydid23]

This was Feb 24th. It wasnt declared a pandemic till 11th Mar IIRC.

Right. But she is the Speaker of the House. Shouldn't she have been aware of the coming virus by then and advising people to be cautious?

To me, the problem wasn't that she wasn't social distancing. The problem was her words and actions. She was actively urging people to come to Chinatown for New Years celebrations.


"Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi explored San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send out a message. She claimed there’s no factor travelers or citizens must be steering clear of from the location as a result of coronavirus concerns.

“That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here,” Pelosi claimed. “Come because precautions have been taken. The city is on top of the situation.”

She minimized the bigotry problem, claiming she comprehends individuals are worried regarding China– the center of the unique coronavirus.

“But that shouldn’t be carried over to Chinatown in San Francisco,” she claimed. “I hope that it’s not that. But all I can say is, ‘I’m here.’ We feel safe and sound, so many of us coming here.”


That^^^ is the problem.
]

How many people were walking around in close contact during that parade and celebration?

I wonder how many people were unknowingly spreading it around that weekend?

 

[tresir2012]

Meat, vegetables, and dairy (being poured away in rivers) aren't being consumed by restaurants and schools in the same proportions they used to be; and in many cases, "not at all" (all the restaurants who are doing takeout only). If I were paying 100% for my takeout meals (generally rebates, coupons, discounted gift cards), I wouldn't be doing any takeout at all; and I'm still not doing any takeout that doesn't involve heat applied to the food (no salads, etc.).

ETA: As the farmers point out, cows don't stop needing to be milked daily; and crop rotation doesn't stop for an off season either. The udders have to be empty and the fields have to be empty or fallow.

They better not be pouring milk into rivers. Do you have a link? Milk is a pollutant in rivers and will kill everything. I have seen articles where they pour it into milk lagoons (maybe like slurry tanks? I don't know).

 

[katydid23]

Thanks, I'll delete my comment.

Maybe there was no social distancing by her---but she knew about the virus. So why was she URGING people to attend the Chinese New Years festivities?

 

[tresir2012]

Right. But she is the Speaker of the House. Shouldn't she have been aware of the coming virus by then and advising people to be cautious?

To me, the problem wasn't that she wasn't social distancing. The problem was her words and actions. She was actively urging people to come to Chinatown for New Years celebrations.


"Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi explored San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send out a message. She claimed there’s no factor travelers or citizens must be steering clear of from the location as a result of coronavirus concerns.

“That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here,” Pelosi claimed. “Come because precautions have been taken. The city is on top of the situation.”

She minimized the bigotry problem, claiming she comprehends individuals are worried regarding China– the center of the unique coronavirus.

“But that shouldn’t be carried over to Chinatown in San Francisco,” she claimed. “I hope that it’s not that. But all I can say is, ‘I’m here.’ We feel safe and sound, so many of us coming here.”


That^^^ is the problem.
She is now pointing fingers at the CV Task Force, claiming they were not taking the virus seriously enough. Meanwhile, she was actively urging people to attend Chinese New Years celebrations, in late February, when she already knew about the VIRUS coming from China.


How many people were walking around in close contact during that parade and celebration?

I wonder how many people were unknowingly spreading it around that weekend?

I don't think any of us were aware but I'll have to check back in the threads. Certainly politicians would have been aware I would think.
This is a link to the very first article posted on the thread by Amonet. Mid January.

New virus in China 'will have infected hundreds'

 

[katydid23]

So we stay inside our homes for another few weeks, months, perhaps next year - separated from our family, trying to get food on a regular basis via delivery/pickup, medicine shortages, shut off from friends - while we wait for a vaccine or death from the virus. This is what my elderly aunt and uncle told me this evening.

My 89 yr old mother has resigned herself to the fact that she will likely die before she is allowed to leave her little apartment, where she lives alone.

She is in a retirement home, but they are not allowed to have visitors or allowed to leave their apartments. She has been quarantined for a month now, and she knows it could be another month or two. She feels very lonely.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think any of us were aware but I'll have to check back in the threads. Certainly politicians would have been aware I would think.

It says so in the article:

"As Pelosi strolled from the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory to lunch at a dark amount dining establishment, she embraced close friends as well as swung to observers. She minimized the bigotry problem, claiming she comprehends individuals are worried regarding China– the center of the unique coronavirus.

“But that shouldn’t be carried over to Chinatown in San Francisco,” she claimed. “I hope that it’s not that. But all I can say is, ‘I’m here.’ We feel safe and sound, so many of us coming here.”


Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns – NBC Los Angeles | The Union Journal

 

[jjenny]

Thing is though teachers were not a group who seem to have been impacted by it and they were teaching kids right up to March. So maybe kids aren't contagious. I just don't know what to believe anymore. All these grandparents have been isolating for nothing or what is the deal?

Nobody said kids aren't contagious. Nobody said teachers weren't affected by covid either.
"NEW YORK — Coronavirus has claimed the lives of 50 Department of Education employees in New York City since the middle of March, officials announced Monday."
21 teachers among 50 NYC education employees to die of COVID-19, DOE says

 

[jjenny]

So are asymptomatic people infectious? I am not clear about this.

Yes, asymptomatic patients can transmit covid. That's what makes it hard to contain.

 

[tresir2012]

It says so in the article:

"As Pelosi strolled from the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory to lunch at a dark amount dining establishment, she embraced close friends as well as swung to observers. She minimized the bigotry problem, claiming she comprehends individuals are worried regarding China– the center of the unique coronavirus.

“But that shouldn’t be carried over to Chinatown in San Francisco,” she claimed. “I hope that it’s not that. But all I can say is, ‘I’m here.’ We feel safe and sound, so many of us coming here.”


Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns – NBC Los Angeles | The Union Journal

I don't know why she wasn't worried at that stage because the first cases in the US had already happened by then.

 

[Really?]

WHO recommends against international travel restrictions: January 10, 2020, WHO advice for international travel and trade in relation to the outbreak of pneumonia caused by a new coronavirus in China



WHO claimed "no clear evidence of human to human transmission": January 12, 2020, WHO | Novel Coronavirus – China

WHO claimed "there has been no suggestion of human to human transmission of this new coronavirus": January 13, 2020, Novel coronavirus in Thailand



China and WHO claim that how the virus is transmitted is unknown: January 19, 2020, New coronavirus 'preventable and controllable', China says - BBC News



WHO Director-General states that a travel ban is not needed: February 3, 2020, WHO chief says widespread travel bans not needed to beat China virus - Reuters , WHO Director-Generals opening remarks at the technical briefing on 2019 novel coronavirus

I was shocked how this all panned out.

I thought that it would be treated like we (USA and all) like we did Ebola. Contain that **** as it entered our borders.

Then there was travel as usual......flights from cruise ship ports., China....etc......arriving.

 

[tresir2012]

Nobody said kids aren't contagious. Nobody said teachers weren't affected by covid either.
"NEW YORK — Coronavirus has claimed the lives of 50 Department of Education employees in New York City since the middle of March, officials announced Monday."
21 teachers among 50 NYC education employees to die of COVID-19, DOE says

So are these kids still contagious or all ok now as they have effectively been quarantined for well more than 14 days ?

The teachers and other education employees could have caught the virus anywhere before the lockdown like everyone else, on sidewalks, shops and restaurants, transit systems etc. They don't know.

 

[jjenny]

Ebola was thankfully easier to contain. It was only transmitted after people started showing symptoms. It was not airborne and only transmitted from contact with bodily fluids of infected person.
If it was as easily spread as covid we would have been in big trouble.
As I recall there were people in New York that went quite a few places before developing symptoms and being diagnosed. But they didn't infect anyone, because ebola was not contagious before symptoms.

 

[tresir2012]

Well, here's what I am thinking. It's not spoken about directly in most of the planning.

People in the US aged 50 or over at the ones at high risk. Almost everyone else is not at risk, so much. So it will be up to those of us who are older and/or at medical risk just to protect ourselves.

This could lead to herd immunity. The at risk would still be at risk, though, even with some herd immunity established. Why don't they just say that workers who are 50-67 are the ones who are going to be screwed by this in one way or another? They can't lower the age of retirement (although they should) for many reasons.

Hey - think of the benefits! We lower life expectancy, we don't have to pay as much in MediCare or Social Security, the people who wanted to lower those benefits anyway will be happy! Everybody wins! And the Dead don't care or vote, right??!?

Is that what we've become? I do see this attitude among younger people, perhaps it's a majority view.

Some have advocated ages 20-40's being the first to go back to work I think. How are other countries doing it?