Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #52

[margarita25]

April 20 / source:

“Gabriela: (36:33)
Hi. Thank you very much for taking my question. I read about a study suggesting that rather than the virus weakening the lungs as had been thought, growing evidence shows that the virus is actually, it’s stripping red blood cells of its oxygen, giving the appearance of long [inaudible 00:36:52] and forcing the lungs to work harder. So without oxygen, the body is effectively being starved of energy and dying. So what are your comments on this? Did you heard about this? Thank you very much.

Dr. Michael J. Ryan: (37:08)
Yeah, I believe it’s likely that both processes are occurring. There’s certainly no question that there’s a direct impact on lung tissue from the virus itself. But there is this observation of rapid desaturation or rapid loss of oxygen in the blood and we’ve seen many, many reports of this. And clearly there are multiple physiologic or pathological pathways in action here. It’s not just the lungs are affected, many other organs are affected. And I think it’s a dynamic issue. There’s also the direct effect of the virus and then there’s the immune response to the virus. And in effect, we may be seeing in some cases a very robust immune response. Sometimes the immune system overreacting. And we’ve seen this in many other emerging diseases as well. So we may see a mixture of the immuno modulated responses.

In other words, responses to the virus that are modulated by the immune system that may help kill the virus, but they may also do tissue damage. We see the direct effect of the virus itself. And then we see the effect on the oxygen carrying system, which begins in the lungs, continues in the red blood cells and goes all the way to the tissues. And at this point I believe clinicians around the world and pathophysiologists are really looking at what is the contribution of each of these potential pathways to the overall morbidity and overall mortality of this disease.”

 

[tresir2012]

Our governor, keeps moving the goal posts.
In our community, we have zero dead.
In ALL of San Diego, we have 111 people classified as Covit-19 deaths, but they are classifying anyone who dies, heart attack, cancer, car accident if they test and have Covit-19 in their system... then it is a Covit-19 death.
Even so, 111 deaths from a county of nearly 3.5 million people.
Imo, our Governor of the great hair, thousand dollar suits and white teeth then we could ever imagine.
Tells us how his Science ?(that predicted 26 million deaths in California, whereas, less then 1800. People have died. 99% of them being either long care very elderly, or very sick people to begin with

3.5 million is a similar population to NZ who have only had 4 deaths and are declaring it virus free. The population density has clearly got such a lot to do with this virus spread IMO.

 

[RosalindaA]

Some happy news amongst all the sadness, Covid 19 survivors Carrie Symonds and PM Boris Johnson announce birth of baby boy at London hospital, congratulations to them PM and fiancee announce birth of son

 

[margarita25]

April 20 / source

“Dr. Van Kerkhove: (56:23)
Thank you [Derek 00:00:56:23]. The question was about the development of a vaccine and the claim about rapidly producing one in perhaps six months, so we welcome all work on the development of a vaccine and as rapidly and as safely as possible. We welcome this. The question was about whether or not you can develop a vaccine on a virus we don’t yet know, if I understood the question appropriately. There are more than 10,000 full genome sequences that have been made publicly available from all over the world and there are a large number of scientists and virologists who are looking in detail at each full genome sequence that is available and we thank all countries, everyone who has made those sequences available because that allows us to check these viruses and see if the virus is changing.

What we see among these 10,000 viruses, is that it is relatively stable. There are little changes, normal changes in viruses, but nothing that’s unexpected and so the development of a vaccine on viruses that are available is good. There are many vaccine candidates that are in development and we’re working with many partners to accelerate this. As quickly and safely as possible, we welcome this and we welcome not only the development, but the equitable distribution of any vaccine that does become available because we will need a vaccine in the future.”

 

[tresir2012]

Nearly 70 residents sickened with the coronavirus have died at a Massachusetts home for aging veterans, as state and federal officials try to figure out what went wrong in the deadliest known outbreak at a long-term care facility in the U.S.

While the death toll at the state-run Holyoke Soldiers' Home continues to climb, federal officials are investigating whether residents were denied proper medical care and the state's top prosecutor is deciding whether to bring legal action.

“It's horrific,” said Edward Lapointe, whose father-in-law lives at the home and had a mild case of the virus. “These guys never had a chance."

Sixty-eight veteran residents who tested positive for the virus have died, officials said Tuesday, and it's not known whether another person who died had COVID-19. Another 82 residents and 81 employees have tested positive.

The home's superintendent, who's been placed on administrative leave, has defended his response and accused state officials of falsely claiming they were unaware of the scope of the problem there.

Republican Gov. Charlie Baker's administration has hired an outside attorney to conduct an investigation into the deaths. Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey is also investigating to determine “what went wrong at this facility and determine if legal action is warranted."

Nearly 70 dead in ‘horrific’ outbreak at veterans home

This is terrible. They didn't even have their own rooms.

 

[tresir2012]

Some happy news amongst all the sadness, Covid 19 survivors Carrie Symonds and PM Boris Johnson announce birth of baby boy at London hospital, congratulations to them PM and fiancee announce birth of son

That is great news. I had no idea she was so close to term.

 

[margarita25]

April 20 / source:

“Dr. Michael J. Ryan: (01:08:55)
There is no doubt that certainly the lockdowns have had a major impact on on social economic and also on the delivery of other health services. Health services themselves and health systems and whole hospitals have become overwhelmed. The disease was not contained or suppressed initially in a way in which the hospitals could be protected. So in that sense, people lost access to the hospitals because they very often became overwhelmed by COVID cases. Or elective surgery was canceled as a means of creating hospital beds, which is perfectly appropriate. But elective surgery does not mean unnecessary surgery, for example, that’s elective in that it can be carried out in a plan where it is still necessary surgery. Cancer chemotherapy, others, immunization programs in many countries are an absolutely vital defense against the other infectious diseases.

So there is no doubt that other health services have come under pressure in all systems. And we’ve had a group working very, very hard on sustaining continuity of other health services during this time. So that basic essential health services under the rubicon of universal health, could be and can be still be provided. And therefore, no one would like to see the public health or social measures, those broad based measures which many people refer to as lockdowns.

Everybody wants to be able to see those lockdowns transitioned away from. It’s very important. The difficulty is, that those measures were put in place to suppress what was an intensely burning epidemic. They were an emergency measure put in place by governments who had seen an exponential rise in cases. And in many cases unlike in the cases of some of the Southeast Asian countries, there the initial attempts to do containment, failed. And the disease spread and accelerated. And in that situation, there was very little option for countries but to impose this type of lockdown. The difficulty is unlocking or transitioning away from those measures, means there is always the chance that the disease may rebound.

And we’ve been saying quite clearly, in order to move away and we need to move away from these lockdowns, but we need to not move away from lockdown, we need to move towards something else. Moving away from a bad thing, something that was necessary and that has caused so much hardship for people is a good thing. But if you don’t move towards something else, you may be back exactly where you started before you know it. And we need to move towards empowered people and communities who understand how to protect themselves, and how to protect others and who are willing to continue with a degree of personal hygiene and physical distancing that will be necessary going forward. We need to move towards stronger public health capacities, not just testing.

Testing is a hugely important central piece of surveillance, but we need to train hundreds, thousands of contact traces. We need to be able to find cases. We need to be able to isolate cases who are confirmed. We need to be able to quarantine contacts. We need a system. We need an absolutely massive increase. The same massive increase we saw in the health systems, in health care, in ICUs, in ventilators. That’s all we seem to talk about is ventilators. They’re very important, absolutely very important, but we need to start talking about contact tracers. We need to start talking about quarantine facilities for contacts. We need to start talking about community-based surveillance.

We need to invest in the alternative to lockdown. And we need to strengthen the healthcare system at the same time, so the same tragedy of overwhelmed health systems does not emerge again should the disease rebound. We have said this since the beginning of this epidemic, pandemic. We have said this since the beginning. So, we will work with countries and support them to put in place those systems, and we see many countries moving very carefully and in a very united way towards those objectives. And we will continue to support those objectives. And if we do that, then our hospital beds are freed up, our clinics are freed up, people can go back to see the doctor and our essential health services can come back online. Because, nothing is more important than that right now.

Dr. Van Kerkhove: (01:13:47)
To add to what Mike has said, we have issued some guidance about maintaining essential health services because this is absolutely critical that other services continue. Babies are still being born and children need vaccinations. People need vaccinations. This needs to continue, and it needs to be done in a safe way. So we do have guidance that has been put out to try to support countries and trying to maintain that. We’ve also seen some innovative ways in which countries have been able to use telemedicine, for example, so that there are still a continuous way in which doctors can speak with their patients and so that there can maintain that care. And it will be temporary as we’ve said, that once the measures are able to be lifted, once these public health and social measures are able to be lifted, these services can get back online.

We’ve seen countries be very strategic in the way that they care for patients. Perhaps in some areas that are overwhelmed with large numbers of patients. They’re either not cared for in that specific locale. They’re moved to other parts of the country. We’ve seen some countries who are having low incidents except patients from countries who are having explosive outbreaks. And that solidarity and that support in that generosity, is really welcomed. And we’re very grateful for that. And I’m sure all the countries are grateful for that. But it is important that essential health services continue. We have large groups within WHO and our partners in ministries of health and across different sectors who are trying to continue all of those services, and we will continue to support countries in doing so throughout this pandemic.”

 

[tresir2012]

OK, so it's obvious that for a lot of people, a minority I might add, just like in 11/16, 60K Deaths & Counting, in about 2 months, is nothing to be too concerned about. These same people also seem intent on emphasizing that the #'s are much lower than had been suggested as possible, and therefore all the stay at home rules are a bit of overkill....no pun intended.

A logical person would do the math, and come to the intelligent conclusion that were it not for the orders set in place, that 60K figure would undoubtedly be much higher. Someone with a brain would see the exponential calamity this virus inflicts, and calculate that if there had not been uniform stay at home orders in place, we could be looking at 100K or 200K dead already, and rising at an uncontrollable rate. With our hospitals and health care system overwhelmed and overloaded.

We will see in a few weeks whether the states opening now did so too early or not.

How many of the 60k are care home deaths and could have been avoided? Or alternatively, are there still care home deaths unreported? Maybe those in charge know something we don't? IMO only government know the real picture. We really don't even know the full story yet or whether it will return in a second wave, or whether there is immunity, antibodies etc. The fight is not over but lockdown has to ease even if it is brought back in a few months. AJMO.

 

[IceIce9]

This may be a dumb question but I’m going to ask anyway. Some states have “hot zones”, or big cities, but the rest of the state is more rural and populated. But the whole state is going by the same rules for stay at home. Why can’t the reopenings be handled on a County by County basis? Or some type of radius “zone” away from the major cities?

In Indiana some of our largest per capita outbreaks have been in rural counties.

 

[IceIce9]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Children, teens, and young adults will spread COVID to those in high risk categories.

 

[Trino]

Guess I'm really out of the norm, but here's a story...
Minnesota liquor store:
"The beginning of the 'stay at home' order, that was an increase that nobody could have predicted," said Mike Larson, liquor operations manager for the City of St. Anthony Village. “It keeps going."

In March, Larson said the two city-owned stores saw an increase in monthly sales of 31% compared to last year.

"The amount of sales we've experienced is something -- after 32 years in this business -- I've never seen it like this," Larson said.
Municipal liquor stores see change in buying habits during COVID-19 pandemic

 

[Trino]

And, a note on businesses:
"Customers and employees can sue a business for lost wages, medical expenses, and other damages if they prove negligence, recklessness, or intentional disregard for their safety. But some recommended precautions for COVID-19 could run up against workplace protection laws, such as:

• Telling other employees when someone is sick (privacy violation)
• Requiring workers to test negative before coming back (discrimination and health privacy)
• Prohibiting at-risk populations like the elderly from coming to work (more discrimination)

Who's taking care of this?
Last week, President Trump said his administration was exploring ways to help shield businesses. But experts think Congress needs to tap its interstate commerce regulatory powers for any meaningful changes.

• Congress already capped liability for businesses making desperately needed masks. Manufacturers have proposed extending those protections to other companies making PPE and essential items.

Some labor unions and Democratic leaders are pushing back, arguing that weakened labor protections would let employers skate by without providing basic protections. Numerous complaints have been filed over unsafe conditions for essential workers.

• The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has received 4,000 complaints against employers related to coronavirus but hasn't issued any citations or fines, a labor leader told USA Today."
• Source: Morning Brew

 

[Trino]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

What about the fact that a person can infect others?

 

[Trino]

How many of the 60k are care home deaths and could have been avoided? Or alternatively, are there still care home deaths unreported? Maybe those in charge know something we don't? IMO only government know the real picture. We really don't even know the full story yet or whether it will return in a second wave, or whether there is immunity, antibodies etc. The fight is not over but lockdown has to ease even if it is brought back in a few months. AJMO.

Referencing the 1918 flu pandemic. This is what everyone thought back then. Didn't work like that.

 

[katydid23]

Children, teens, and young adults will spread COVID to those in high risk categories.

Not if those in high risk categories stay quarantined.

 

[katydid23]

What about the fact that a person can infect others?

If the most vulnerable stay isolated, then its is not as risky. Eventually, the less vulnerable have to build their immunities and become part of 'the herd.'

 

[IceIce9]

What about the fact that a person can infect others?

Exactly. School-age children will spread the virus to grandparents, and some might have parents who are in higher risk categories.

Teachers, bus drivers, lunch ladies, etc. could all be in higher risk categories.

 

[IceIce9]

Not if those in high risk categories stay quarantined.

What about teachers, bus drivers, lunch ladies, etc?

 

[katydid23]

Guess I'm really out of the norm, but here's a story...
Minnesota liquor store:
"The beginning of the 'stay at home' order, that was an increase that nobody could have predicted," said Mike Larson, liquor operations manager for the City of St. Anthony Village. “It keeps going."

In March, Larson said the two city-owned stores saw an increase in monthly sales of 31% compared to last year.

"The amount of sales we've experienced is something -- after 32 years in this business -- I've never seen it like this," Larson said.
Municipal liquor stores see change in buying habits during COVID-19 pandemic

We certainly bought more liquor for our home than we have in years...

We usually drink socially when we go out. Either when we go out to dinner together OR when we go out with friends and family. And my husband has a lot of work meetings in restaurants or sometimes bars.

None of those ^^^ things are happening now. So we did end up buying wine, beer, whiskey and brandy for our home use, over the past 6 weeks. Our buying habits did change for sure.

 

[katydid23]

What about teachers, bus drivers, lunch ladies, etc?

If you are in a high risk group then you probably shouldn't work in jobs that place you around a lot of contagious people.

But I don't understand the reference to all of the 'school' related jobs. Are you saying we shouldn't open up the schools now because of the lunch ladies and bus drivers and teachers being at risk?

The schools are considered one of the first targets to open because the youngest are least vulnerable to the virus. So if a lunch lady is in the vulnerable category, she might need to find a less risky job for now?