Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #56

[10ofRods]

Why don't they have access to running water?

They live in the middle of America's largest desert. Sources of water are few and far between. Native Americans are nations within our nation, and the Navajo are the largest. They have not moved from their lands since about 3000 years ago.

They use things like water tanks to try and collect what little rainfall there is, and almost all have access to a place with running water - miles from where they live. The little towns like Mexican Hat have water, but the Navajo live dispersed in a very large area, herding sheep. Canyon de Chelly has tank-driven gravity flow water, but again, not always in homes.

Navajo still live in hogans, just as Chukchi (in Siberia) still live in reindeer hide houses.

Navajos do have trucks and they take barrels to these small towns and get water that way. I lived there for a few months and my uncle was a NHS employee on the reservation nearly all his life. It's a very difficult way of life.

BTW, many people in Mexico (outside of the Central Plain) are in the same situation.

Again, most Navajo have access to a house and many do live in regular houses in small towns (with regular plumbing), but the elderly typically do not live that way and it's traditional for grandkids to spend a lot of time out in the traditional way of life, learning essential Navajo rituals, language - and subsistence. They practice one of my favorite religions.

 

[tresir2012]

Unfortunately this crisis has brought out some uglier qualities in some people-there
are the selfish ignorant people who say basically, i want to do what i want and if older
people with underlying medical conditions die, well, too bad-- there are others who
are just plain stupid and call this virus a hoax or "it is the flu" --- others make this crisis
about "my constitutional rights"---and while these people are in the minority, there
are enough of them who ruin it for everybody else, and pose a physical threat of spreading
the virus---

Have you got some specific MSM examples of this? I know we have seen some real extreme examples of people shooting or spitting when challenged but these are not the norm so I am wondering who are these selfish, ignorant people you describe.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm glad that I listened to this, but I think I will hear that sound in my nightmares now.
It sounds like a monster.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip: removed political commentary> This was not an unsafe, untested drug by the sound of it.

Not unsafe for those who need it, quite unsafe for people with heart issues and other issues (which is the problem). Can you cite any studies that show that HCQ by itself is effective? I do not think you can.

<modsnip: removed political commentary>

What about the pneumonia vaccination? Could that help protect those vulnerable to CV19? I have not heard much mentioned about that.

No. Not exactly.

However, there is a little research that shows that people who've had recent immunizations may have more of the "alert" immune cells that help the body get on the fast track to forming antibodies. All vaccinations have risks, but it would seem that for healthy older people (under 80 but over 50), getting a vaccine just before they contract CoVid might help them fall into the mild or moderate case group. I'm not including gamma globulin vaccinations, because there's no research into that. There's even a theory that children are less symptomatic because they are still in the process of getting vaccinations - and then are spontaneously challenged/vaccinated by the average 6-10 viruses that sweep through most classrooms.

I plan to go get my measles/mumps booster first (for just this reason), when I can - it's not easy to get for an adult where I live. Then, there was some other vaccination my doctor wanted me to get, I've forgotten. I will probably do this before and during my first ventures back into the real world.

 

[10ofRods]

Did they really stamp it out though? Hasn't it just morphed into Covid? If they don't know exactly where Covid came from maybe they are claiming victory too soon?

CoVid's actual name is SARS-CoVid-2. CoVid IS SARS.

 

[Sundog]

Myth busters
''Do vaccines against pneumonia protect you against the new coronavirus?
No. Vaccines against pneumonia, such as pneumococcal vaccine and Haemophilus influenza type B (Hib) vaccine, do not provide protection against the new coronavirus.

The virus is so new and different that it needs its own vaccine. Researchers are trying to develop a vaccine against 2019-nCoV, and WHO is supporting their efforts.

Although these vaccines are not effective against 2019-nCoV, vaccination against respiratory illnesses is highly recommended to protect your health.''

Doctors do recommend that people over a certain age get the pneumonia vaccine, however, to safeguard against a secondary infection as a result of being sick with COVID-19. I am not sure if the age is 60 or 65, but most pharmacists will give the shot and charge your health plan.

 

[MimosaMornings]

My daughter sits on the Board of her HOA, and has set up a pool reservation system, so that only one household unit at a time can be there, for one hour slots. They're going to remove all the pool furniture and ask that people bring their own. My input was that pools have chlorine in them anyway, so not such a bad environment for kids and of course, everyone needs the sun.

They haven't voted on it yet, but as she's the only one who has taken an interest in trying to open it, I suspect this system will be the one they use.

We do live in a place where the overall case rate is just 4 people in 10,000, and only 2 new cases in the last 5 days (in nursing homes). There are a lot of older people in the complex, but in an informal survey of them, it turns out they are aware of risks and unlikely to want to use the pool, but would be able to reserve a time just for themselves, which they appreciate.

They are going to disinfect after each family has their time slot?

Wondering how they are going to work out the pool reservation, can a family log in and reserve every Saturday from 1-2 or an hour each day? Or does every family get a chance at a time slot? Curious how this will work out.

 

[tresir2012]

They live in the middle of America's largest desert. Sources of water are few and far between. Native Americans are nations within our nation, and the Navajo are the largest. They have not moved from their lands since about 3000 years ago.

They use things like water tanks to try and collect what little rainfall there is, and almost all have access to a place with running water - miles from where they live. The little towns like Mexican Hat have water, but the Navajo live dispersed in a very large area, herding sheep. Canyon de Chelly has tank-driven gravity flow water, but again, not always in homes.

Navajo still live in hogans, just as Chukchi (in Siberia) still live in reindeer hide houses.

Navajos do have trucks and they take barrels to these small towns and get water that way. I lived there for a few months and my uncle was a NHS employee on the reservation nearly all his life. It's a very difficult way of life.

BTW, many people in Mexico (outside of the Central Plain) are in the same situation.

Again, most Navajo have access to a house and many do live in regular houses in small towns (with regular plumbing), but the elderly typically do not live that way and it's traditional for grandkids to spend a lot of time out in the traditional way of life, learning essential Navajo rituals, language - and subsistence. They practice one of my favorite religions.

One post here said they had to drive 18 miles to fill up their tanks. That does not seem far to me for the water to be piped to them. It needs to be done. Perhaps Bill and Melinda Gates could have a water project for those who have no mains water. My neighbour has no mains as they use a well but purchase their drinking water in bottles. They are only about 200 metres away and I never understand why they have not paid for a connection. At least they have well water but these do not even have that by the sounds of it.

 

[Sundog]

(Response to another part of post.)
Second wave will gradually come IMO.
Interesting what Australia did. No travel between provinces. They had people stationed to stop travel. There, obviously, are too many roads in the US vs going across Australia, but the US made no attempts to really stop domestic travel.

Ohio hair salons are getting tons of calls from people in Michigan, including the Detroit area, for appointments starting this Friday for haircut, etc. as the hair salons in Michigan are still shut down. Detroit was a hot spot for some time, not sure if it COVID-19 cases in Ohio could be impacted by interstate travel for services that aren't available in one state or area versus another.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm not sure about this link? what does everyone think?

Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks

I think it's accurate. There has to be a reason that Austria has such a lower rate of CoVid than so many of its neighbors.

All the data on masks (even just the wearing of surgical masks in public) show that masks reduce transmission more than any other single measure, such as hand washing. The data vary, but the transmission rate seems to be cut by 40-60% by mask wearing (keeping in mind that there's also user error involved, plus most of those studies were done in places without additional social distancing).

I'm trying to put together a set of links on masks for my summer classes, which I'll share when I get it up (I have Tricia's permission to share my blog links, as my blog is not monetized in any way).

My own interest right now is on which type of mask is best for longterm use. Surgical style masks don't protect the user - but if everyone wore them, they do protect other people from getting what the mask-wearer has. They are cheap and disposable, but useless in an environment where active CoVid is being breathed on your face.

As @The Night Watchman already pointed out, the headline is misleading. Austria did way more than just require masks, but I believe the research shows that public mask-wearing is a big chunk of the needed strategy.

 

[tresir2012]

I respectfully disagree. I believe he is pushing the economists, and his favored media to make "safety measures" look unnecessary at best, and stupid at worst. To me, it is totally disheartening to see Fauci now vilified by so many. "He's not elected". ?? What does that have to do with anything. ? Like...an elected person is much more knowledgeable?
@gitana1 hit so many nails on the head! (And hopefully not in our coffin")

The safety measures I saw so so many people of all ages, using a month ago, are totally gone. My grocery store still looks pretty safe to me (however I do shop in the senior hour), but I have frequented a few others places--some out of necessity and some out of "community support"... and you would think that nothing has happened.

I am "game" for reopening, because I have choices to stay home with no responsibility for kids anymore, or a long commute and hard job.
But to be made the enemy for trying to be safe, supporting our local officials who are trying to be more cautious, or still reading that the virus is a total hoax (as evidenced by our local community FB pages.... oh how I wish I could post) is unacceptable.

What i am afraid of the most is that we will still push stuff under the rug (like we have fantastic testing) , and will be no better prepared for when this comes around again...whether a second wave, or a whole new virus.... it will come.

I am unconvinced that testing is reliable yet. There have been some false starts it seems. Which is the most accurate for example?

 

[tresir2012]

I believe you're missing the reason for these clinical trials funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which is interested in inexpensive drugs that might be used to fight COVID-19. I have to disagree with your needle in a haystack opinion as explained below.

The trial in my post is aimed at finding out if chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin, singly or in combination, can prevent pneumonia and other serious complications in people who have the virus but aren’t sick enough to be hospitalized. We're talking about treating a majority population to arrest the lung inflammation or pneumonia caused by the virus and stop them from becoming inpatients.

Hydroxychloroquine is believed completely viable mechanistically as something that might work, and it’s a lot cheaper than Remdesivir, an antiviral medication recently approved for treating COVID-19.

Today, most of the evidence for the drugs’ effectiveness comes from laboratory studies showing inhibition of the virus and the trials. What is needed right now is an adequate number of people to enroll in the trials to know what the effectiveness is with confidence.

It's time to learn if these drugs are going to work — or not work — on Republicans and Democrats alike.

Why won't a pneumonia vaccine help against the pneumonia caused by Covid? Is it a different strain of pneumonia?

 

[Sundog]

Driving back from the pharmacy drive-through a few minutes ago, I just heard on the radio that Michigan government is laying off 30,000 employees, which is 2/3 of their state government workforce. Detroit was hit really hard during the 2008 recession, it was like a ghost town in many areas, then various foundations went in and poured money into the city to save it and revitalize it, and it has been doing well, but this will be a major blow to its survival and well-being.

Don't have a link yet, as heard it on the radio as national news.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Driving back from the pharmacy drive-through a few minutes ago, I just heard on the radio that Michigan government is laying off 30,000 employees, which is 2/3 of their state government workforce. Detroit was hit really hard during the 2008 recession, it was like a ghost town in many areas, then various foundations went in and poured money into the city to save it and revitalize it, and it has been doing well, but this will be a major blow to its survival and well-being.

Don't have a link yet, as heard it on the radio as national news.

Michigan aims to save $80 million by temporarily furloughing 31,000 employees through July

State of Michigan to participate in federal Work Share Program to protect workers, help address budget deficit

 

[10ofRods]

One post here said they had to drive 18 miles to fill up their tanks. That does not seem far to me for the water to be piped to them. It needs to be done. Perhaps Bill and Melinda Gates could have a water project for those who have no mains water. My neighbour has no mains as they use a well but purchase their drinking water in bottles. They are only about 200 metres away and I never understand why they have not paid for a connection. At least they have well water but these do not even have that by the sounds of it.

Piping water takes energy. There's no high mountain area to use gravity to make the water flow. This is true for most of California. Nearly all of L.A's water is pumped, although the aqueduct system does work by gravity through long portions of its run.

So, someone would have to pay actual money to build pumping stations and then pipes and drains in these remote hogans. Here's a picture:

Have You Heard of a Navajo Hogan?

While the Navajo Nation does have some cash (as a unit), it doesn't spend it on things like plumbing, but instead on basic healthcare, gasoline to get to grocery/water outlets, etc. I guess you'd call them "poor," but that's not how they see it. No one wants a sink in their hogan - it would be ridiculous, really. Cooking is done both indoors and in the hogan (in winter), but it's a one room house for the most part and toilets/sinks just don't figure much in the world of the Navajo.

It would make their lovely nation a network of above-ground piping, further, and they oppose that for the environmental consequences. They care about everything on their land (ants, other insects, snakes, etc) Drilling into hard sandstone to get pipes underground is super expensive - and then, of course, there's the other issue:

Where would all this water come from?

Because, as it stands, their system naturally rations a scarce resource - there are actually new housing developments in California with no water, btw. Long story.

36 miles round trip on dirt roads to wash one's hands is indeed excessive. IMO. People need to wash their hands regularly in a CoVid crisis.

Of course, the main solution is now to make elders aware of the issue and have people drive water to their hogans, which is what is now happening. Good medical care is not available at all on the reservation (for ICU beds, they have to go to Gallup, which is now overwhelmed). The word just didn't get out to the elders- they have no television and they listen to Navajo language radio only occasionally.

It's a very quiet world. The youth of the Nation, though, are definitely organizing (as they are in Hawaii) to solve these issues. Hawaii has one of the lowest CoVid rates in our hemisphere as a result - but of course, all Native homes in Hawaii have electricity - but not necessary "running water." My mom has no running water except if she runs her own propane-powered pump and brings it in from her above-ground reservoir (which is an above-ground swimming pool). But Hawaii has tons of water, so using that method is not a big deal.

 

[tresir2012]

I get a pneumonia shot every other year. It’s not a general recommended timeline but for my health risks and tendency toward double pneumonia - the docs decided the benefit outweighed the risk.
Savvy Senior: Do pneumonia vaccines protect from coronavirus?

A friend of mine got it and I think it was just a one off shot needed. Will have to check. She has actually had some very bad chest infections (she is a smoker) and her doctor made her have it.

Piping water takes energy. There's no high mountain area to use gravity to make the water flow. This is true for most of California. Nearly all of L.A's water is pumped, although the aqueduct system does work by gravity through long portions of its run.

So, someone would have to pay actual money to build pumping stations and then pipes and drains in these remote hogans. Here's a picture:

Have You Heard of a Navajo Hogan?

While the Navajo Nation does have some cash (as a unit), it doesn't spend it on things like plumbing, but instead on basic healthcare, gasoline to get to grocery/water outlets, etc. I guess you'd call them "poor," but that's not how they see it. No one wants a sink in their hogan - it would be ridiculous, really. Cooking is done both indoors and in the hogan (in winter), but it's a one room house for the most part and toilets/sinks just don't figure much in the world of the Navajo.

It would make their lovely nation a network of above-ground piping, further, and they oppose that for the environmental consequences. They care about everything on their land (ants, other insects, snakes, etc) Drilling into hard sandstone to get pipes underground is super expensive - and then, of course, there's the other issue:

Where would all this water come from?

Because, as it stands, their system naturally rations a scarce resource - there are actually new housing developments in California with no water, btw. Long story.

36 miles round trip on dirt roads to wash one's hands is indeed excessive. IMO. People need to wash their hands regularly in a CoVid crisis.

Of course, the main solution is now to make elders aware of the issue and have people drive water to their hogans, which is what is now happening. Good medical care is not available at all on the reservation (for ICU beds, they have to go to Gallup, which is now overwhelmed). The word just didn't get out to the elders- they have no television and they listen to Navajo language radio only occasionally.

It's a very quiet world. The youth of the Nation, though, are definitely organizing (as they are in Hawaii) to solve these issues. Hawaii has one of the lowest CoVid rates in our hemisphere as a result - but of course, all Native homes in Hawaii have electricity - but not necessary "running water." My mom has no running water except if she runs her own propane-powered pump and brings it in from her above-ground reservoir (which is an above-ground swimming pool). But Hawaii has tons of water, so using that method is not a big deal.

Federal funding is the answer and now is the time for them to get it IMO. I'm not suggesting piping into the homes but to pipe it into the area, or dig large wells. There has to be a way. If energy is the problem then solar power has to be the answer for pumping purposes.

 

[10ofRods]

Why won't a pneumonia vaccine help against the pneumonia caused by Covid? Is it a different strain of pneumonia?

Pneumonia is not a disease. It's a condition that has myriad causes. The vaccine is for a common type: Pneumococcal Pneumonia (caused by a form of strep bacteria).

Pneumonia - Wikipedia

As the first sentence says, pneumonia is an inflammatory condition of the lining of the lungs. It can have many causes besides strep. In fact, my dad got a different kind after visiting his sister (at age 95, this was no joke).

Pneumonia can be caused by many different bacteria:

Bacterial pneumonia - Wikipedia

but also by viruses (like CoVid), fungi, parasites and a number of non-infectious causes related to other diseases.

So that's why the standard pneumonia vaccine does nothing against any viral form - it's an anti-bacterial drug. Bacterias are a piece of cake to deal with, as compared to viruses (most of the time).

I do understand it's confusing that people hear "pneumonia vaccine" and think it resolves all pneumonia.

It does not.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm not sure about this link? what does everyone think?

Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks

Why you now have to wear a mask in Austrian shops

WHO have not come up with their advice so far. The BBC link above says this:-

"Now America's CDC public health agency has also recommended that homemade cloth face coverings are worn in shops and pharmacies.

Up to now the World Health Organization (WHO) has said people who are sick and show symptoms should wear masks.

But it advises that healthy people only need to wear them if they are caring for others suspected of being infected or if they themselves are coughing or sneezing. It has said the incorrect use of masks can be counterproductive, leading the wearer to become infected.

Media captionWith face masks in high demand, we look at whether they really can protect people from the virus


A panel of advisers to the WHO is currently assessing the question.

Some people in Austria are now sewing cotton masks for themselves.

Otherwise supermarkets have to provide shoppers with masks if they don't have their own."

That bit from WHO is what I think. Masks can become problematic IMO.

 

[The Night Watchman]

They live in the middle of America's largest desert. Sources of water are few and far between. Native Americans are nations within our nation, and the Navajo are the largest. They have not moved from their lands since about 3000 years ago.

They use things like water tanks to try and collect what little rainfall there is, and almost all have access to a place with running water - miles from where they live. The little towns like Mexican Hat have water, but the Navajo live dispersed in a very large area, herding sheep. Canyon de Chelly has tank-driven gravity flow water, but again, not always in homes.

Navajo still live in hogans, just as Chukchi (in Siberia) still live in reindeer hide houses.

Navajos do have trucks and they take barrels to these small towns and get water that way. I lived there for a few months and my uncle was a NHS employee on the reservation nearly all his life. It's a very difficult way of life.

BTW, many people in Mexico (outside of the Central Plain) are in the same situation.

Again, most Navajo have access to a house and many do live in regular houses in small towns (with regular plumbing), but the elderly typically do not live that way and it's traditional for grandkids to spend a lot of time out in the traditional way of life, learning essential Navajo rituals, language - and subsistence. They practice one of my favorite religions.

10ofRods, your posts are incredibly informative and interesting. I always look forward to them.

 

[tresir2012]

Pneumonia is not a disease. It's a condition that has myriad causes. The vaccine is for a common type: Pneumococcal Pneumonia (caused by a form of strep bacteria).

Pneumonia - Wikipedia

As the first sentence says, pneumonia is an inflammatory condition of the lining of the lungs. It can have many causes besides strep. In fact, my dad got a different kind after visiting his sister (at age 95, this was no joke).

Pneumonia can be caused by many different bacteria:

Bacterial pneumonia - Wikipedia

but also by viruses (like CoVid), fungi, parasites and a number of non-infectious causes related to other diseases.

So that's why the standard pneumonia vaccine does nothing against any viral form - it's an anti-bacterial drug. Bacterias are a piece of cake to deal with, as compared to viruses (most of the time).

I do understand it's confusing that people hear "pneumonia vaccine" and think it resolves all pneumonia.

It does not.

I believe there are different pneumonia vaccines. We don't know what the pneumonia is that CV19 patients are getting, I agree. But if CV19 is secondary and the primary cause of death is pneumonia, depending on which pneumonia they are getting then that is the vaccine needed. E.g. if COVID pneumonia is a separate pneumonia that we presently have no vax for then I agree.

This is the one I am talking about for over 65's. Just one shot needed. PPV. Also for babies, PCV two shots needed. The kid's one protects against meningitis too.


Pneumococcal vaccine overview

This is an article that explains Covid19 patients can get either bacterial or viral pneumonia.

Differentiating viral from bacterial pneumonia - CEBM