Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #56

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  • #281
Unfortunately at this point we don’t really know that testing positive means someone is immune and can’t get COVID again.

I spoke with an epidemiologist before I had my test and he explained that positive test results don’t mean that you can let your guard down. There have been multiple cases of people getting COVID 19 more than once, and there are already three known mutations.
For the time being at least, testing positive to antibody means that your immune system alone was able to fight the virus and that you didn't need treatment or hospitalization.

If I tested positive I would be less afraid to go out in the world I once knew existed. With all proper precautions of course. I may even go to KALI's restaurant. About 120 miles down south.
 
  • #282
There have been 9,508 deaths related to coronavirus in New Jersey. Officials reported 198 new deaths statewide on Tuesday.

In New Jersey, 4,328 individuals with confirmed or potential cases of COVID-19 were hospitalized as of 10 p.m. Monday.

There were 164 patients discharged in the last 24 hours. and 360 new hospitalizations yesterday.

Of those hospitalized patients, 1,306 patients are in intensive care or critical care and 2,842 are in medical surgical beds.

The state is using 31.5% of its statewide ventilator capacity, with 982 patients on ventilators. Ventilator usage continues to decline in New Jersey.

As of May 12, there were 140,743 reported cases in the state, including 898 additional cases disclosed Tuesday.

New Jersey has completed a total of 430,060 tests. As of May 8 a total of 23% of the tests came back positive.

NJ coronavirus cases at 140,743 as deaths rise to 9,508 on Tuesday (May 12)
 
  • #283
Ireland deaths per million 297, Sweden deaths per million 328 so not too dissimilar, but quite surprising consider Ireland had lockdown. So is lockdown simply to control the hospital intakes and ICU capacity and the deaths are not necessarily going to be more but over a longer period?

Sweden size: 450,295 km²
Ireland size: 84,421 km²
 
  • #284
  • #285
Dr. Anthony Fauci, Sen. Rand Paul spar over safety and death rates among children with coronavirus
...
Paul then targeted Fauci personally: “As much as I respect you Dr. Fauci, I don’t think you’re the end-all, I don’t think you’re the one person that gets to make the decision. We can listen to your advice. But there are people on the other side saying there won’t be a surge and we can safely open the economy.”

Fauci asked for a chance to respond, and pushed back.

“I never made myself out to be the end-all,” he said. “I’m a scientist, a physician, and a public health official. I give advice according to the best scientific evidence.”

He said other people have advised the U.S. of the “need to get the country back open again economically. I don’t give advice about economic things, I don’t give advice about anything other than public health.”

Fauci then turned Paul’s own phrasing on him. “You used the word we should be ‘humble’ about what we don’t know. I think that falls under the fact that we don’t know everything about this virus, and we really had better be very careful, particularly when it comes to children,” Fauci said.

“Because the more and more we learn, we’re seeing things about what this virus can do that we didn’t see from the studies in China or in Europe. For example, right now children presenting with Covid-19 who actually have a very strange inflammatory syndrome, very similar to Kawasaki syndrome,” Fauci said.
...
 
  • #286
  • #287
Which is why, I am not exactly sure that Medical students would be the greatest people to recruit for this type of position.

I love doctors, have worked with many of them. Most of whom were brilliant people. But not the best at "chit chat" or doing social activities. Some very important information could be obtained from people with just chatting, and they mention that they took a bottle of water out to the UPS guy. Boom.

That's basically what I teach in one of my courses - how to get over shyness, how to start chatting appropriately (a lost art), how to do reflective, intensive listening, how to sustain a relationship if more information is needed, or you want someone to contribute saliva or blood. Getting people to be okay with pin prick blood draws in the field (for studies that are trying to collect random samples) is not easy. Saliva isn't easy either, and of course, then the students need to learn to don and use gloves for any fluid collection. I didn't start handling fluids until I was late in grad school - but a self-administered saliva test is probably what most states will use (where the subject puts their saliva in a tube and seals it themselves, etc). That would be for antibody testing.

Also, we need additional information on those contacts if we can possibly get it, to try and understand what characteristics the asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic may share.

Medical students, IME, can do all of this, but they almost never get formal training in how to relate to people and as undergrads, studies and surveys show that pre-meds are among the least social of any group of majors.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220970903352746

Part of the goal is to do enough listening that the contact starts remembering more. People can often remember way more as a conversation goes on and they feel more comfortable. Did the person wash their hands after exchanging the bottled water for their UPS package? You can't just blurt that question out.
 
  • #288
I was wondering the same. I think this virus sweeps through very vulnerable population - probably 50% of early deaths are very elderly. I can't recall the age exactly, but the median age was something like 78 in the first part of their pandemic. Well, I'd say one factor is most of the people in Sweden who are in their 90's or older are dead, along with a good number of the 80's and of course, some people in their 60's and 70's too. There are only so many of those people.

Another factor is that regardless of what the government has done or said, actual Swedes themselves are pulling back from social interaction as they can see how bad this virus is. Many of the early deaths were in Sweden's immigrant community, and those people have reacted with alarm and are self-quarantining.

Sweden seems to be a very healthy nation, so it's possibly the asymptomatic people are in higher numbers. Not sure how much antibody testing they've done - it would be interesting to see the data.

On forums for Swedish people (like on reddit), it's clear that tons of people are avoiding travel to their own hotspots (Stockholm, other big cities), avoiding crowded indoor spaces, etc.

That's all I can think of.

Sweden: coronavirus deaths by age groups 2020 | Statista

Here is a link to the ages of the 3,313 deaths in Sweden. Only 401 of 3,313 were under 70.

Thought you may be interested. Only 1 child has died.

Number of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in Sweden in 2020, by age groups(as of May 12, 2020)

Number of cases
9 years and younger 1
20-29 years 7
30-39 years 13
40-49 years 32
50-59 years 105
60-69 years 243
70-79 years 746
80-90 years 1,354
90 years and older 812
 
  • #289
  • #290
House Democrats unveil new $3 trillion coronavirus relief bill
...
Party leaders expect to vote on the more-than-1,800-page package on Friday, along with a plan to allow proxy voting on legislation during the crisis.
...
It includes, according to a summary:
  • Nearly $1 trillion in relief for state and local governments
  • A second round of direct payments of $1,200 per person, and up to $6,000 for a household
  • About $200 billion for hazard pay for essential workers who face heightened health risks during the crisis
  • $75 billion for coronavirus testing and contact tracing — a key effort to restart businesses
  • An extension of the $600 per week federal unemployment insurance benefit through January (the provision approved in March is set to expire after July)
  • $175 billion in rent, mortgage and utility assistance
  • Subsidies and a special Affordable Care Act enrollment period to people who lose their employer-sponsored health coverage
  • More money for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, including a 15% increase in the maximum benefit
  • Measures designed to buoy small businesses and help them keep employees on payroll, such as $10 billion in emergency disaster assistance grants and a strengthened employee retention tax credit
  • Money for election safety during the pandemic and provisions to make voting by mail easier
  • Relief for the U.S. Postal Service
  • ...
 
  • #291
  • #292
Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months
The emergency orders are set to expire Friday May 15.

The emergency Safer-at-Home orders in Los Angeles County that have humbled the economy and pressed the pause button on daily life will “with all certainty” be extended for another three months, Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer told the county Board of Supervisors on Tuesday, May 12.

“There’s no way (to open earlier) unless there’s a dramatic change in this virus and the tools that we have on hand to actually fight against this virus,” Ferrer said.

That the health-officer order, set to expire on Friday, May 15, would be revised and extended was hardly a surprise, as officials have been outlining repeatedly a phased approach toward fully reopening the economy. That the order could last until August, however, had not yet been stated publicly.

...........Under a plan announced by Gov. Gavin Newsom counties would need to have zero deaths in two weeks and just one new case per 10,000 people, a standard that no county in Southern California was anywhere near meeting currently.

Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months – Press Telegram
 
  • #293
  • #294
Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months
The emergency orders are set to expire Friday May 15.

The emergency Safer-at-Home orders in Los Angeles County that have humbled the economy and pressed the pause button on daily life will “with all certainty” be extended for another three months, Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer told the county Board of Supervisors on Tuesday, May 12.

“There’s no way (to open earlier) unless there’s a dramatic change in this virus and the tools that we have on hand to actually fight against this virus,” Ferrer said.

That the health-officer order, set to expire on Friday, May 15, would be revised and extended was hardly a surprise, as officials have been outlining repeatedly a phased approach toward fully reopening the economy. That the order could last until August, however, had not yet been stated publicly.

...........Under a plan announced by Gov. Gavin Newsom counties would need to have zero deaths in two weeks and just one new case per 10,000 people, a standard that no county in Southern California was anywhere near meeting currently.

Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months – Press Telegram
L.A. extending the stay-at-home order is not a surprise. Extending three months is, though. I didn't expect that long of an extension.

jmo
 
  • #295
What can we learn from Sweden's Covid-19 ICU figures?
(Ireland)
It can be very tricky to compare the Covid-19 experiences of different countries. Populations are not evenly distributed in terms of age, location, ethnicity, social class, or culture. Different groups and regions are not equally susceptible to the virus.

Then there is the fact that countries measure the impact of the coronavirus differently. For instance, Ireland is one of only a very small number of European countries that includes both nursing homes and suspected or probable Covid-19 cases in official numbers.

This doesn't stop people making international comparisons though. With so many people straining at the leash to break out of lockdown, many point to the different experience in Sweden with no lockdown. It raises questions about whether Ireland’s social, travel, and work restrictions needed to be so tough here after all.

For anyone who asks that question of Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, he has a very sharp and succinct answer: "Have you seen the intensive care admissions figures for Sweden?"

Well actually, no, not really. We haven’t seen those figures. Sweden’s ICU caseload is hardly headline news here. Perhaps it should be. Because there is something important that Sweden’s critical care experience can tell us. It is this: there never was any realistic alternative strategy that Ireland could have pursued.

Our healthcare system simply could not have coped with the more relaxed approach taken by Sweden. This graph showing the number of people treated in intensive care in Ireland and in Sweden shows why.

001456e6-614.jpg


There are two striking observations about the graph. The first is that the underlying level of Covid-19 disease in Sweden, as evidenced by the numbers in intensive care, is running very significantly above the levels of disease in Ireland and has been doing so since the start.

In fact, the level of disease in Sweden is three times higher than in Ireland if the ICU occupancy rates are any guide. If anything, the gap between both countries appears to be widening, as Ireland continues to strangle the spread of the virus by retaining the lockdown while Sweden pursues its more relaxed approach.

The second striking observation is that while the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in intensive care in Ireland was down to 72 by 10 May, on a like-for-like basis the number for Sweden was 233. That is more than three times the level of disease in Ireland.

This is a huge gap. It suggests that if Ireland had followed the Swedish more relaxed approach to social distancing, we would have required at least another 161 beds in intensive care for confirmed Covid-19 patients alone.

Add to that the additional beds required for three times as many "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases - which have always been a significant and constant feature in intensive care. The number of extra beds required for Covid-19 patients would then be above 200 by now.

We just do not have that capacity in intensive care. Notwithstanding the issue about where in the country those vacant beds might have been required, by 10 May we could accommodate, at a push, about 150 additional patients in fully-staffed ICU beds nationwide.

Before this crisis began, Ireland only had about 225 intensive care beds nationally. By 10 May, including non-Covid-19 patients, there were 257 people receiving critical care in Irish hospitals. That means even with the lockdown, if the HSE had not scrambled to expand critical care capacity, hospitals in Ireland would have been in serious trouble by now with medics having to make torturous decisions about who to allow into critical care units and who to turn away.

Our health system could not have coped. Fortunately, that did not happen because of the extra critical care capacity that was put in place.

But what if our National Public Health Emergency Team had advised the Government to follow the Swedes? What if the level of Covid-19 illness was more than three times as high in Ireland as it is now? Because that is precisely what the Swedish intensive care numbers tell us would have happened.

It would have been a disaster. It would have put Ireland right up there with Italy and Spain, in terms of the horrific scenes and experiences that we would have had to endure and witness. The European Centre for Disease Control highlighted that Ireland started into the crisis with the lowest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe.


Our healthcare system was simply never strong enough to endure the journey that the Swedes embarked on. It just could not have coped and it is hard to imagine how Irish society would have coped.

[More at link]

What can we learn from Sweden's Covid-19 ICU figures?

Great read. Thank you for posting.
 
  • #296
A mother and her daughter in Belgium were forced to get creative after learning their local McDonald’s was only available for drive-thru customers — as are all McDonald's in Belgium — because of lockdowns due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Mother, daughter craving McDonald's build cardboard 'car' to order from drive-thru-only location
What a delightful story!

From your link: "Fortunately, the imaginative crew’s trip to the drive-thru was a success: They were indeed able to place and receive their order via the drive-thru window."


McDonalds-Cardboard-Car-Nathalie-Moermans-4.jpg
 
  • #297
Dr. Anthony Fauci, Sen. Rand Paul spar over safety and death rates among children with coronavirus
...
Paul then targeted Fauci personally: “As much as I respect you Dr. Fauci, I don’t think you’re the end-all, I don’t think you’re the one person that gets to make the decision. We can listen to your advice. But there are people on the other side saying there won’t be a surge and we can safely open the economy.”

Fauci asked for a chance to respond, and pushed back.

“I never made myself out to be the end-all,” he said. “I’m a scientist, a physician, and a public health official. I give advice according to the best scientific evidence.”

He said other people have advised the U.S. of the “need to get the country back open again economically. I don’t give advice about economic things, I don’t give advice about anything other than public health.”

Fauci then turned Paul’s own phrasing on him. “You used the word we should be ‘humble’ about what we don’t know. I think that falls under the fact that we don’t know everything about this virus, and we really had better be very careful, particularly when it comes to children,” Fauci said.

“Because the more and more we learn, we’re seeing things about what this virus can do that we didn’t see from the studies in China or in Europe. For example, right now children presenting with Covid-19 who actually have a very strange inflammatory syndrome, very similar to Kawasaki syndrome,” Fauci said.
...
I absolutely love a man that can calmly, rationally voice his expert opinion while admitting he doesn't know everything. Love it
 
  • #298
Convincing analysis. The other thing is it is not just total numbers of beds in Ireland, but where are they? Can a patient get transferred to ICU before they succumb to the virus.

But then there is the other thing...why are Sweden's ICU numbers tailing down? I would really like to know. They are nowhere near herd immunity. From what we are told this number should just keep climbing up and the infections multiply non-linearly. For all the advice epidemiologists hand out, there are some things that they just have little to say about.
Good questions.
 
  • #299
IMO, if we have beds in the hospitals and healthcare providers are not overwhelmed with patients and workload, we need to open up WITH social distancing, even if treatments/vaccine, etc not fully in place. The point of the lockdown, from my understanding, was to protect our health-care system so that it didn't collapse.

The virus isn't going anywhere soon, so we need to figure out how to live with it - while protecting the vulnerable, slowing the spread, and maintaining healthcare for all needs (not just Covid). We can do that, if people cooperate with social distancing to slow the spread.

(If people don't social distance, the cases will go up, the hospitals will be overwhelmed, and lockdown will happen again.)

my opinion

Right now, most areas need to open up to keep an underwhelmed healthcare system from collapsing. :( jmo
 
  • #300
Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months
The emergency orders are set to expire Friday May 15.

The emergency Safer-at-Home orders in Los Angeles County that have humbled the economy and pressed the pause button on daily life will “with all certainty” be extended for another three months, Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer told the county Board of Supervisors on Tuesday, May 12.

“There’s no way (to open earlier) unless there’s a dramatic change in this virus and the tools that we have on hand to actually fight against this virus,” Ferrer said.

That the health-officer order, set to expire on Friday, May 15, would be revised and extended was hardly a surprise, as officials have been outlining repeatedly a phased approach toward fully reopening the economy. That the order could last until August, however, had not yet been stated publicly.

...........Under a plan announced by Gov. Gavin Newsom counties would need to have zero deaths in two weeks and just one new case per 10,000 people, a standard that no county in Southern California was anywhere near meeting currently.

Ferrer: L.A. County likely to extend stay-home orders for another 3 months – Press Telegram
Responding to my post, wanted to add Stanford's updated forecast for LA.
These folks are between a rock and a hard place.
The top chart is low herd immunity, which I believe they have proved out. Opening to 50% Rx, (1.7) the exponential growth line in purple is greater than 120 death per million per day that translates to 480 deaths per day for the city. The county is 10 mil so that's an addl 720 desths per day from a total of 1200 deaths per day......

Opening at 25% Rx (1.2), deaths stay flat. Only .5 Rx to manage the situation.....that's tough.

Extended Results COVID-19
 

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