Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #57

[Sundog]

DBM Double post

 

[Sundog]

"The U.S. could have avoided nearly 36,000 deaths caused by the coronavirus through early May if stay-at-home orders and other social distancing restrictions were implemented just one week earlier, a new study from Columbia University researchers shows.

The study, which focused on transmission in metropolitan areas, found that social distancing measures adopted throughout the nation after March 15 "effectively reduced rates of COVID-19 transmission."

The researchers estimated that had the measures been instituted just one week earlier that the U.S. may have avoided more than 700,000 confirmed cases of the virus and as many as 35,927 deaths that it caused. "

Social distancing one week earlier could have saved 36,000 US lives: study

And if China had let the world know earlier about human to human transmission, and if the WHO had proclaimed a pandemic earlier...

 

[mickey2942]

Rehabilitation Facility Delayed Telling Families of Positive COVID-19 Tests: Community Activist

This article is one of literally 100's. Coronavirus is rampant, not only in nursing homes, but rehabilitation centers.

Many people who have elective surgeries, knee replacements, stents, whatever, usually go to a rehabilitation facility after surgery for after care, PT, OT, services.

I don't think that anyone would now even think of going to a rehabilitation facility after surgery. And many are probably deciding that knee/hip isn't too bad right now.

 

[doublestop]

Compared to the minute number of child deaths attributed directly or indirectly to Covid, the onerous "safety" precaution of toddlers and elementary school students wearing masks 6-8 hours a day and all that comes with that, is completely unjustifiable, imo. Especially since there's no indication that it's even effective.

But it's not onerous. That's the point. For a toddler, perhaps. An elementary student can handle such basic hygiene.

 

[10ofRods]

I feel like many people want Hydroxy to fail. The reasons are murky.

I don't want any drug to fail, but I question the costs of studies as large as UK's, when there are other drugs (anti-virals) that seem much more promising. Of course, HCQ is now generic, so it's not expensive, whereas the new anti-virals are expensive. But if I were going into a big study, I wouldn't want to be in the HCQ group, as there are a couple of dozen smaller studies that do not make it look particularly effective.

Perhaps all of these people will be mildly symptomatic at the time they join - that in and of itself will skew the study results, and it will remain hard to tell whether it's the person's own immune system or the HCQ that is making the difference. Hopefully, the 40,000 will include some severe cases (but other studies show very little effectiveness for HCQ in severe cases).

At any rate, the HCQ makers must be glad of the research. I wonder if they're donating to it.

 

[firebird]

But it's not onerous. That's the point. For a toddler, perhaps. An elementary student can handle such basic hygiene.

I explained above why I think it's onerous and not at all basic. Agree to disagree

 

[mickey2942]

Bolsonaro Touts Chloroquine for All as Brazil’s Virus Toll Surges

They can skip the study, and just watch Brazil's train wreck.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Face masks and no duty free: EU issues coronavirus air safety guidelines
From physical distancing to reduced onboard food, EASA sets out guidance for plane travel

Air travellers will have to wear face masks throughout all stages of their journey, they could be assessed in interview booths if they show signs of Covid-19, and will need to say goodbye to loved ones outside the airport, according to guidelines issued by the EU’s air safety body.

Instructions issued to airports and airlines also include: restrictions on hand luggage, reserving an on-board toilet for cabin crew and no onboard duty free or food trolleys.

The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) published 28-pages of guidelines that will radically alter the experience of flying, including physical distancing measures that Heathrow’s chief executive has previously said would be impossible to implement. The UK has had no role in shaping EASA policy since the official Brexit date of 31 January but remains a member until the end of the year.

Airlines and airports are likely to adopt many of the guidelines, which cover every stage of the air travel process.

[...]

Those travelling are expected to take precautions such as washing hands and wearing masks, with exceptions for children under six and people with a medical reason not to. Regular reminders will be broadcast through the public address system, alongside the usual security messages and flight information.

[...]

EASA said airport operators should set up interview booths for people found to have a temperature of more than 38C to assess possible illness.

However, it also admits that temperature screening is not considered particularly effective at spotting Covid-19 and is more intended to “dissuade ill persons from travelling by air and enhance public confidence”. Nonetheless, Heathrow airport last week rolled out temperature screening, using camera detection systems to monitor multiple people at a time for signs of fever.

Airport staff will need to wear face masks and hand them out to passengers not sporting their own. Protective perspex barriers are also likely to become a feature of check-in desks and security areas, under the guidelines. Heathrow has said it is installing 600 hand sanitiser stations, putting up signage featuring government health advice and even looking at using UV light to sanitise surfaces.

[...]

Hand luggage restrictions could be even stricter. EASA recommends cutting down on cabin bags to speed up boarding and reduce contamination risk. It recommends airlines incentivise customers to do this, so there may be discounts on hold luggage charges.

[...]

EASA recommends strict protocols if someone falls ill on board with Covid-19 symptoms. Two rows of seats in every direction should be cleared and anyone who was sitting in them could be interviewed by public health authorities when they land. Their travelling companions will also be isolated.

The ill passenger should be given their own toilet and be seated at the back right, near the outflow valve through which dirty air is dumped. The air nozzle above their seat should be turned off to reduce droplet spread and only crew members who have already interacted with them should continue to do so.

[...]

After collecting baggage, passengers will be told to leave the airport as soon as possible. Meet and greet will not be allowed for the most part. Where it cannot be avoided, a special area will be set up away from other arrivals.

[Lots more at link]

Face masks and no duty free: EU issues coronavirus air safety guidelines

 

[CharlestonGal]

Imo, there's nothing "basic" about a child wearing a face mask all day at school. That said, "In 2017 in the United States, 794 children ages 12 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes. (Of all the children who died in a crash in 2017, 37% were not restrained.)"

Car Seat Safety Stats: Car Crashes - The #1 Killer Of Children

Fatality Facts 2018: Children

So 500 children who died in car accidents in 2017 were restrained (63%), and in 2018 the total was 383 (or 60%). Compared to the minute number of child deaths attributed directly or indirectly to Covid, the onerous "safety" precaution of toddlers and elementary school students wearing masks 6-8 hours a day and all that comes with that, is completely unjustifiable, imo. Especially since there's no indication that it's even effective.

Incompatible analogy. Car accidents are not contagious. Accidents and infectious disease are not directly comparable.

 

[10ofRods]

Why can't the teachers wear the masks? Their doesn't seem to be much evidence kids are a risk to each other. But I could have missed that evidence.

New Studies Add to Evidence that Children May Transmit the Coronavirus

Evidence suggests that children readily transmit to each other.

And these cases, just after schools opened in France, were mostly children:

70 cases of COVID-19 at French schools days after reopening

So now, both the kids and their families have to be quarantined.

In the US, though, there would also be liability because schools are supposed to act in a manner that reasonably reduces risk to kids.

Teachers will certainly be wearing masks, and perhaps face shields. A lot of educators believe this will not work/be effective for K-2, but for the higher grades, I think we'll see plenty of teachers wearing both masks and face shields.

 

[sallye818]

Thank you, so much, for your response, @Gardener1850! Abd pain was right between my belly button & chest, like if it were gastritis. It went away completely when the virus symptoms went away. Have never had a colonoscopy/endoscopy but that would've been my next step, but now that it's cleared up, I don't feel that is t The problem. I'm much more concerned about the possibility of blood clots and if I'm going to be prone to those.

I have a virtual visit w/ my Dr. tomorrow. I hope this is enough. I still have a really BAD headache, but now she doesn't want to give me anything for it til I see her. It has been a vicious cycle. I will keep pushing. Thank you so much for letting me vent.

Where is your abdominal pain approx? Did they check for things like gallstones, kidney stones or appendicitis? Or ovarian cysts? (assuming you are female) Have you had a colonoscopy recently? It's not fun, but it's one way to rule out colon cancer. I have not heard of anyone with Covid having a metallic taste. Covid patients are losing all sense of taste/smell from my understanding of that symptom. I would keep following up with your doctor and push for more testing until they find out what is going on. Try not to be angry/emotional when you talk to the dr but make it clear this is not normal for you. Make a list of your symptoms to read to the dr and also write down the questions you want to ask before hand so you don't forget anything while on the video appointment.

Also, another thought is maybe you did have Covid but don't have it actively now so the tests are coming up negative. Maybe ask your dr if you should get an antibody test to diagnose if you had it in the past? So little is known about the long term effects of this virus because it's new (novel). But regardless, I would keep pressing for a diagnosis of something to explain what is happening to you. I hope you can get a diagnosis or treatment or that you will start to feel better soon. Keep us posted. Good luck.

ETA Disclaimer: I am not a medical person. I have been an frustrated/angry/confused patient before while trying to get a diagnosis of something. Don't give up.

MOO.

 

[CharlestonGal]

And if China had let the world know earlier about human to human transmission, and if the WHO had proclaimed a pandemic earlier...

Not really. One look at Italy told me all I needed to know about the need to socially distance and implement other precautions. I took measures to protect myself and my family weeks before the government told me to. Reading through the beginning of this thread, many people here did the same. If we had the sense to respond quickly based on information known to everyone, there's really no excuse for various governments delayed response.

 

[sallye818]

@Cool Cats, thank you very much for responding! I also wondered about an antibody test. This will be one question I ask tomorrow!

And yes, I feel the same way, I know I will get better but I want to know--esp in light of a possible blood clot. If I have one, I have no risk factors, so if it's COVID related it makes sense. If not, why in the blazes am I getting a blood clot? And I sure want to know if I'm going to be prone to getting them in future.

I wish there was a COVID specialist!! I think that is a lot of the problem. "Novel" Corona virus is so new and so many things people don't know, Dr's don't even know what to tell patients. I keep saying in a year we will all know so much more than we do now.

You seem like a good "candidate" for a Covid-19 antibody test. If your Dr. were to order you one, ask what the medical plan would be for you if you test positive and the plan if you test negative.

Ask your Dr. if she/he will do diagnostic testing to get you a firm diagnosis - if you test negative.

You will get better but even so, you have a right to get a diagnosis. You shouldn't be kept "up in the air" -- yes you have Covid no you don't have Covid, yes you have a blood clot no you don't have a blood clot.

If you do not get the answers you seek then see a specialist! You can be honest with your Dr. that you want answers and ask he/she for a referral to a specialist.

Sorry your going through all this Put yourself 1st and do what is best for you

 

[10ofRods]

May 20, 2020, 12:47 PM EDT

As more states reopen, Georgia defies predictions of coronavirus resurgence. What's the lesson for the rest of the country?

But now 26 days have passed since the state started to reopen — and that punishing new wave of infections has not materialized. In fact, according to a database maintained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Georgia’s rolling seven-day average of new daily cases — an important metric that helps to balance out daily fluctuations in reporting — has fallen for three weeks in a row.

Georgia’s seven-day average of COVID-19 hospitalizations fell from 1,432 on May 4, to 1,239 on May 11, to 1,049 on May 18 — a three-week decline of 26.7 percent.

Those figures are undisputed — despite a clumsy effort by state officials to present the data in a way that made them look even better.

And they are a lot better than the experience in two other states that are moving to end lockdowns, Florida and Texas.

Well, that could be explained by data manipulation. Georgia and Florida both have emerging scandals regarding data.

Numerous states accused of manipulating or bungling COVID-19 data

Georgia, Florida accused of fudging or bungling COVID-19 testing data to make state look better | The Times

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

 

[sallye818]

And I didn't think horrible metallic taste was a symptom of COVID either, but called dysgeusia, it falls under the category of losing sense of taste/smell. As soon as I mentioned it to the nurse at the front entrance of my Dr's office, she said I needed to wait outside as it was considered a symptom. My Dr. & ER Dr. confirmed this as well. Here are a couple of articles I found when I later Googled it.

Coronavirus warning - patient explains 'horrible taste' that could be a sign of COVID-19

Coronavirus and the senses of smell and taste

Taste Something Metallic? It May Be A Symptom Of Coronavirus

 

[10ofRods]

With all due respect, you're wrong on all counts. There's a limit to how many surgeries a physician does a day. And after surgery is completed, they dictate post op orders and tend to other business before starting another surgery--- and they don't wear a mask while doing it. They do not stand there and perform one surgery after another with a mask on---for 6 hours---everyday. Yes, some last hours but it's not an everyday occurrence like some are suggesting children be subjected to in the wearing of masks everyday in school
Hygienists also do not stand there for 6 hours with a mask on. After they finish with one patient, they restock their supplies and clean their station in preparation for the next patient---and they don't wear a mask while doing it.
My source is the link YOU provided. Which stated: 'Keep in mind, you shouldn't be wearing these for prolonged periods anyways''

You do realize that most places are not suggesting that kids go back for 6 hours a day?

Nearly every district is going to halve the number of students by having staggered arrival/departure times. Therefore, the whole discussion about kids wearing masks for 6 hours is beside the point. Further, kids in other countries have done so with no harm.

Surgical masks are, obviously, somewhat breathable and easier to wear than N95's. Even worn with a gap allowing some oxygen exchange, they are still about 60% in reducing viral load in a closed air space.

Schools should obviously be rethinking ventilation as well. It would be sensible, given how kids are, for kids to be allowed to throw away their morning masks when they go out for recess (very low risk for kids without underlying conditions) and then putting another on when they return for the next 2 hours.

I don't know where you live, but where I live and in the states where friends are teachers, they are planning to focus on essential subjects and cut the school day shorter. A lot of people think this is a good idea, btw - parents are not objecting to the degree I thought they would. It remains to be seen how after school care will be handled in states where weather isn't conducive to such programs being outdoors most of the year.

There are a bunch of small studies like the one linked below that show nurses tolerate wearing masks comfortably for 12 hours (which is typical in an infectious ward and is still the practice at infectious disease wards at Stanford and UCLA, just to name two):

Physiologic and other effects and compliance with long-term respirator use among medical intensive care unit nurses - ScienceDirect

 

[gitana1]

With all due respect, you're wrong on all counts. There's a limit to how many surgeries a physician does a day. And after surgery is completed, they dictate post op orders and tend to other business before starting another surgery--- and they don't wear a mask while doing it. They do not stand there and perform one surgery after another with a mask on---for 6 hours---everyday. Yes, some last hours but it's not an everyday occurrence like some are suggesting children be subjected to in the wearing of masks everyday in school
Hygienists also do not stand there for 6 hours with a mask on. After they finish with one patient, they restock their supplies and clean their station in preparation for the next patient---and they don't wear a mask while doing it.
My source is the link YOU provided. Which stated: 'Keep in mind, you shouldn't be wearing these for prolonged periods anyways''

No, dental hygienists don’t stand there with a mask on for six hours. But they work 8 hours shifts and during that time for most of it they’re wearing masks.

I’ve witnessed the hours of three surgeons on one day of surgery (three surgeries) because I saw their names on the massive schedule in the waiting room which shows all their surgeries for the day. They had back to back surgeries (knee, heart and eye, respectively, for my BIL, niece and SIL) for most of the day. Surgeons work 60-80 hours typically a week.

So yeah. They do wear masks for hours per day on their surgery days.

And what of surgeons who do complex surgeries that last 6-10 hours? Those aren’t new. That shows that indeed, health care workers are wearing masks for extended periods and have been for decades.

And parents of cancer patients who are with their child for days in the cancer ward? Wearing a mask the whole time?

Of course, like I said, they’re not stapled to anyone’s face. No one leaves a mask on for hours without taking it off for at least a bit to eat, drink, etc.

But there is not one shred of data that states there is a risk to kid’s developing brains or carbon monoxide poisoning when wearing a mask for a lengthy time period. That’s what this conversation is about. That’s what you stated. That you think it wouldn’t be good for kids’ developing brains. But you have no evidence to back that up and it should be everyone’s goal to stop misinformation that can hurt us.

But like I said, I don’t know that it’s feasible to have all kids wear a mask all day at school. They’d take it off, touch it, get it dirty, and to wear the same mask would likely defeat the purpose. But some kids do do it:

“Some schools in Taiwan have required students to wear masks at all times, according to Taiwan News.

Second and third graders in Israel wear protective masks while in school, but not in the classroom.”

How 6 countries are opening up schools again, with temperature checks, outdoor classes, and spaced out desks

All photos from link.

 

[gitana1]

My husband survived. He's 10 years older than I am, diabetic and has had open heart surgery - takes BP meds and a bunch of others. I wore a mask around him, washed my hands, wiped things down, had food delivered, and I did not get it - unless I had a milder version of it, which is possible according to his hospital docs. . I also deliver things to my 87 year old mom, wear a mask there too, and stay at the bottom of her apartment stairs to chat with her. Please remember there are many things you can do to take care of yourself (and your mom).

And maybe sit down with (virutally) your kids and tell them how you feel. Ask them to promise to take care of your dog so you'll at least not have that worry. Take care. xxoo

That’s super hopeful. He’s got many of the factors that lead to risk of death and yet survived!!

 

[CharlestonGal]

I feel like many people want Hydroxy to fail. The reasons are murky.

I don't think anyone wants any treatment to fail. The pushback against hydroxy seems to be its use outside of science backed guidelines - that is, use only in hospital and clinical trial settings. It is not currently standard of care as a preventive or an outpatient treatment (in the US, at least).