Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #71

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #841
@10ofRods I believe that you are right, that August, September and October are going to be a rollercoaster. More layoffs, and those folks won't be getting the extra $600. Evictions, the issue with school starting, or not, higher education is going to be hit hard as well. I don't think those folks are ready.

Just "do something new" is so impossibly tone deaf to the reality of millions of people in the United States, I am expecting that the next missive will be along the lines of "free cake" for everyone.
 
  • #842
Are you saying businesses can't ask patrons to do certain things? That isn't true in all states. Businesses have wide latitude to require certain behaviors and protocols of business-users. For example, the Goodwill near my house bans people from dumping "trash" at their pick-up docks when they're closed and the police *will* come for that - even though it's entirely up to the Goodwill (and their cameras) to define "trash." There's no ordinance that distinguishes between "goodwill items" and "trash."

The local pier bans people from fishing on the first section of it (for fairly obvious reasons, but some people are kooks) and the police come for that. Pier is open, the "no fishing signs" were posted by a local group that volunteers to protect the pier. I think they'd like a local ordinance, and one may occur some day - but in the meantime, that part of the pier is governed by leases to businesses - who call the police if someone fishes in their "zone."

I've seen patrons asked to leave because their kids were screaming and all service stopped until kids were taken out and quieted. There is no ordinance, and I've never seen people fail to comply when confronted.

I've seen older people asked to leave (and denied service) due to loud cussing (ha, this is a small town where I hang out). There are no ordinances, but the business in question has one of those "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs. And in fact, LE has been quite prompt in arriving if the parties in question get louder or belligerent. I've gone on ride-alongs and watched officers deal with such matters. I've also interviewed lots of police and keep an eye on many different police blotters (mostly in CA, but in other states as well).

There's a guy who is mentally ill and homeless (in California, neither of those things is a crime - and in fact, homeless people can no longer be asked to leave public property where I live - I think that's statewide). The police come quickly when this guy gets aggro and starts shouting. Shouting isn't illegal, but the police are trained to "assist" such people to seek treatment and do offer to give this guy his trip to the county mental health center's doorstep. They take a lot of time with him and are quite polite, but talk him into the backseat of a patrol car. People *can* be asked to leave private property and if it's the police who ask, you can be sure they don't need to post any signs first. They have no intention of charging this guy and do not tell him he's "disturbing the peace," they handle it differently due to his illness.

It's the business owners who call on this young man, because he walks up and down outside shouting incoherently and scares patrons. This is called "community policing" and it's simply how things are in the area where I live.

What I'm saying is I was replying to links about county sheriff's who said they wouldn't enforce governor's orders without legislation. Here in Indiana, our attorney general has mentioned the very real fact that you need legislation to enforce mask mandates. Like penal code "8675309" is for trespassing. (I made that up on purpose. I don't know my state's specific # for trespassing and in this instance it matters not.) There is NO legislation in Indiana that corresponds to this mask mandate in Indiana. It doesn't even matter one bit that I wear a mask. The legislation doesn't exist. That is all I was talking about. Not trespassing or the lady in town that I'm certain thinks she is Mary Poppins.
 
  • #843
The police can't arrest you for not wearing shoes, either. They can arrest you for trespassing on private property while not wearing shoes. Or wearing shoes. The shoes or lack thereof is not material. Same with masks. If a property owner asks you to leave, no matter the reason or no reason at all, and you refuse you certainly can be arrested. Around here, you will definitely be arrested if you refuse to leave private property or return later.

Right. But I was specifically replying to links about sheriffs enforcing mask mandates. It had nothing to do with trespassing laws. I said earlier I would think businesses could report problems as trespassing if unmasked customers refused to leave. I'm not even sure how what I posted got twisted into something I didnt say. Sunday, I guess. :)
 
  • #844
Arizona reports 1,973 new coronavirus cases, 19 more deaths

"According to the Associated Press, the seven-day average for newly reported cases fell to 2,618.71 on Thursday, the lowest point since June 22."

The article goes on to attribute the improvement to mask mandates, closed bars and gyms, and limited restaurant capacity. It's interesting that those same measures don't appear to have had the same effect in FL, TX and CA.
Sounds like you're headed in the right direction and hope the others follow too.

"For the 22,569 tests given and processed this week, the positive rate is 13%.

The weekly positive rate was 5% in early May and started climbing after Arizona’s stay-at-home order expired. It peaked at 21% the week starting June 28 but had dipped to 15% last week, still much higher than health officials want to see."
 
  • #845
What I'm saying is I was replying to links about county sheriff's who said they wouldn't enforce governor's orders without legislation. Here in Indiana, our attorney general has mentioned the very real fact that you need legislation to enforce mask mandates. Like penal code "8675309" is for trespassing. (I made that up on purpose. I don't know my state's specific # for trespassing and in this instance it matters not.) There is NO legislation in Indiana that corresponds to this mask mandate in Indiana. It doesn't even matter one bit that I wear a mask. The legislation doesn't exist. That is all I was talking about. Not trespassing or the lady in town that I'm certain thinks she is Mary Poppins.

Too bad Indiana runs itself that way. "Enforcement" doesn't mean "arrest," as I tried to show.

We have no mask legislation in California, Hawaii, Oregon or Washington (AFAIK) and yet, as I tried to show, if a business wants someone out on the sidewalk and not inside - the police show up (at least eventually - pretty promptly where I live, really slowly where my family lives on Big Island - but they handle it pretty well themselves).

I have no idea how Mary Poppins got into the convo.

But if I run a business and I don't want you as a customer, you're trespassing in my county - no further ordinances needed, no new laws. In fact, that's true for all private property. Unfortunately, for actual yards in our town, LE is very slow to arrive if someone is trespassing. The fact that public easements and parks are now okay-for-the-homeless has helped the issue of people squatting on others' lands but yes, unauthorized use of private space is against trespassing laws in most states.

Too bad Indiana doesn't have enough rigor in their trespassing laws, because private property is protected from unauthorized access in most states. I can, in fact, choose who comes on my property (and so can business owners here in California - thank goodness).
 
  • #846
:rolleyes:Ain’t no buffet worth gloving up for IME and MOO
Really people?

Golden Corral has reopened their buffets. You have to have a mask and gloves (they provide the gloves) when you go through the line.
I know of one friend that went in her state and didn't like the "new" experience (she is an anti-masker in the first place, so of course she didn't)
Supposedly they have people that "wipe" the handles of the spoons you dip stuff out of continuously. and watching the line and cleaning up, but yep, its still a buffet.
Would I go? H*ll no.
This listing shows you which ones are Buffet, Cafeteria Style or To Go only. Lots of Buffets still.
Golden Corral Rules | Endless Buffet Restaurants | America's #1 Buffet
 
  • #847
Golden Corral has reopened their buffets. You have to have a mask and gloves (they provide the gloves) when you go through the line.
I know of one friend that went in her state and didn't like the "new" experience (she is an anti-masker in the first place, so of course she didn't)
Supposedly they have people that "wipe" the handles of the spoons you dip stuff out of continuously. and watching the line and cleaning up, but yep, its still a buffet.
Would I go? H*ll no.
This listing shows you which ones are Buffet, Cafeteria Style or To Go only. Lots of Buffets still.
Golden Corral Rules | Endless Buffet Restaurants | America's #1 Buffet

Thanks for the info- i am shocked any restaurant would have a buffet
 
  • #848
Golden Corral has reopened their buffets. You have to have a mask and gloves (they provide the gloves) when you go through the line.
I know of one friend that went in her state and didn't like the "new" experience (she is an anti-masker in the first place, so of course she didn't)
Supposedly they have people that "wipe" the handles of the spoons you dip stuff out of continuously. and watching the line and cleaning up, but yep, its still a buffet.
Would I go? H*ll no.
This listing shows you which ones are Buffet, Cafeteria Style or To Go only. Lots of Buffets still.
Golden Corral Rules | Endless Buffet Restaurants | America's #1 Buffet


Infection waiting to happen, imho.

Customers wearing gloves can and may touch the counter, face, trays, etc.

Good infection control with gloves is tricky, requiring training, practice and focus not to touch or cross contaminate other objects.
 
  • #849
  • #850
Too bad Indiana runs itself that way. "Enforcement" doesn't mean "arrest," as I tried to show.

We have no mask legislation in California, Hawaii, Oregon or Washington (AFAIK) and yet, as I tried to show, if a business wants someone out on the sidewalk and not inside - the police show up (at least eventually - pretty promptly where I live, really slowly where my family lives on Big Island - but they handle it pretty well themselves).

I have no idea how Mary Poppins got into the convo.

But if I run a business and I don't want you as a customer, you're trespassing in my county - no further ordinances needed, no new laws. In fact, that's true for all private property. Unfortunately, for actual yards in our town, LE is very slow to arrive if someone is trespassing. The fact that public easements and parks are now okay-for-the-homeless has helped the issue of people squatting on others' lands but yes, unauthorized use of private space is against trespassing laws in most states.

Too bad Indiana doesn't have enough rigor in their trespassing laws, because private property is protected from unauthorized access in most states. I can, in fact, choose who comes on my property (and so can business owners here in California - thank goodness).

We're probably definitely a bit redneck for California. True. And that's perfectly okay with me. :)

We're still doing this back and forth over something I didn't say. And that's fine, too.
 
  • #851
I think next month is gonna be hell on wheels for most of the US. Some states have enacted their own "no eviction" laws or mandates, but paralegals and lawyers in many states say (on reddit) that they have stacks of eviction papers ready to go.

The missing $600 is going to be quite noticeable in many households. The White House's slogan "Find Something New" isn't a happy-making bit of advice right now. Many employers are looking to get people off payroll.

Aren't many people going to get 70% of what they'd been making in the extension of unemployment? Anyone following those stories? We're doing things differently here in CA (although how we're gonna afford it is anyone's guess - and everyone's nightmare).

Lay-offs have already started in the CSU system (for fall - so those people will be new to unemployment, but apparently won't get the extra $600).
And, there are those who actually believe our economy is going to improve?
 
  • #852
Golden Corral has reopened their buffets. You have to have a mask and gloves (they provide the gloves) when you go through the line.
I know of one friend that went in her state and didn't like the "new" experience (she is an anti-masker in the first place, so of course she didn't)
Supposedly they have people that "wipe" the handles of the spoons you dip stuff out of continuously. and watching the line and cleaning up, but yep, its still a buffet.
Would I go? H*ll no.
This listing shows you which ones are Buffet, Cafeteria Style or To Go only. Lots of Buffets still.
Golden Corral Rules | Endless Buffet Restaurants | America's #1 Buffet

Much as I love buffets, I cannot imagine. Ew.
 
  • #853
  • #854
Arizona reports 1,973 new coronavirus cases, 19 more deaths

"According to the Associated Press, the seven-day average for newly reported cases fell to 2,618.71 on Thursday, the lowest point since June 22."

The article goes on to attribute the improvement to mask mandates, closed bars and gyms, and limited restaurant capacity. It's interesting that those same measures don't appear to have had the same effect in FL, TX and CA.

Compliance issues, perhaps?
 
  • #855
Golden Corral has reopened their buffets. You have to have a mask and gloves (they provide the gloves) when you go through the line.
I know of one friend that went in her state and didn't like the "new" experience (she is an anti-masker in the first place, so of course she didn't)
Supposedly they have people that "wipe" the handles of the spoons you dip stuff out of continuously. and watching the line and cleaning up, but yep, its still a buffet.
Would I go? H*ll no.
This listing shows you which ones are Buffet, Cafeteria Style or To Go only. Lots of Buffets still.
Golden Corral Rules | Endless Buffet Restaurants | America's #1 Buffet
Oh heck no. JMO
(I wasn’t a buffet fan prior to the pandemic, just not my thing.)
 
  • #856
@10ofRods I believe that you are right, that August, September and October are going to be a rollercoaster. More layoffs, and those folks won't be getting the extra $600. Evictions, the issue with school starting, or not, higher education is going to be hit hard as well. I don't think those folks are ready.

Just "do something new" is so impossibly tone deaf to the reality of millions of people in the United States, I am expecting that the next missive will be along the lines of "free cake" for everyone.


I agree, some businesses just aren't going to survive and folks will need to find new jobs. Its devastating for an employee to work for years and wake up to be jobless.

We experienced this in the south, when textile manufacturing was shipped overseas. A lot of these folks did not have higher levels of education, and came from families that had worked in the same factory, all their life. It was a way of life, folks made "good" money and had benefits. NAFTA offered a 2 year college or tech. degree, paid 2 years of unemployment benefits and paid health insurance, if folks would retrain.

Some did use the benefit to make a new life and do something new. Others were depressed, couldn't recover, and spiraled into poverty or drugs.

Its going to be a tuff few years ahead, imho as we work towards a new normal and our job market makes a drastic shift.

Moo...
 
Last edited:
  • #857
  • #858
@10ofRods I believe that you are right, that August, September and October are going to be a rollercoaster. More layoffs, and those folks won't be getting the extra $600. Evictions, the issue with school starting, or not, higher education is going to be hit hard as well. I don't think those folks are ready.

Just "do something new" is so impossibly tone deaf to the reality of millions of people in the United States, I am expecting that the next missive will be along the lines of "free cake" for everyone.

What we're seeing right now ( a lot ) out here in the West are displaced college students. Their parents don't want them home, they don't want to be home - so they're out living "on the land" with little stipends from their parents. Not good for the land. I think some of our recent fires were caused by people illegally trying to build a fire and cook on public (NF) land. I don't think it was likely intentional.

With most college students doing "distance ed" (and I've been teaching distance ed for 25 years - nothing has been like this summer semester), they can go off and do whatever thing they want. They flock to beaches, swimming holes, trails, national forests, so that crowds are unusually high. I can't believe how many people are in the parks, at the beach, etc. It's not even hot yet (that'll come in August too).

We were asked not to be too hard on the students in Spring, with the sudden shut down.

But frankly, I'm over the "lower your standards" rhetoric. Nope. Pointless. Can't go any lower.

I do have some really good, responsible students, but for the most part my biggest summer class was a bust - and the students have the lamest excuses (see above: I went camping, there was no internet; I went to Tahoe, had no phone connection; I'm in X place and no internet). They did not stay home. Then, of course, there are the ones who got CoVid (although not one of the students claiming they have it has been able to produce a doctor's note). Arrrgh.
 
  • #859
  • #860
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
120
Guests online
3,496
Total visitors
3,616

Forum statistics

Threads
632,667
Messages
18,629,993
Members
243,241
Latest member
Kieiru
Back
Top