Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #75

[SouthAussie]

My parents went to a garden centre this week. They were giving out free masks on the door to those without them. One man took his, and walked round the centre twirling it round his fingers

Edited 1000 typos

Pubs pay for real security (bouncers). Why can't stores do the same? No shoes, no shirt, no mask, any signs of belligerent behaviour or violence, and you are out - or not in to begin with.

 

[LadyL]

The number and rate of coronavirus cases in children in the U.S. have been "steadily increasing" between March and July, according to new guidance released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

COVID-19 numbers and rates are "steadily increasing" in children, CDC says - CBS News

 

[tresir2012]

I think Trino's point is that if they are protecting their employees, how does that work if the unmasked customers are carrying covid and infect the store's staff (and other customers)?
How do you keep a store relatively sanitised with possible covid-positive, unmasked people walking around breathing on and touching things?

It is really a precarious position. Protect the staff from violence, or protect the staff from covid.

I guess they could do both and pay for real security at the front door.

How do you suggest they force someone to put on a mask? Or to put it back on if they take it off in the store? At gunpoint? These mask "mandates" have no legal backup so the one doing the enforcing could be sued for assault. We have seen the outcomes from these attempts. People being shot and spat on. Who would want that job. The states would need to make a mask law first, like the seat belt or bike helmet laws.

If the employer wants to protect their staff they would have to require employees wear masks I guess, in the absence of state law.

 

[SouthAussie]

How do you suggest they force someone to put on a mask? Or to put it back on if they take it off in the store? At gunpoint? These mask "mandates" have no legal backup so the one doing the enforcing could be sued for assault. We have seen the outcomes from these attempts. People being shot and spat on. Who would want that job. The states would need to make a mask law first, like the seat belt or bike helmet laws.

If the employer wants to protect their staff they would have to require employees wear masks I guess, in the absence of state law.

As I said in my post #361, you hire real security. They know how to deal with this stuff .. they deal with it every night at pub venues.

When a person starts real trouble (violence) that can't be contained, security call police for backup. The police can then do something. If a person leaves quietly - or even leaves complaining loudly - no reason to call the police for backup.

 

[tresir2012]

Pubs pay for real security (bouncers). Why can't stores do the same? No shoes, no shirt, no mask, any signs of belligerent behaviour or violence, and you are out - or not in to begin with.

It is not as simple as that. Bouncers may require sobriety and certain dress before an entry fee is paid. Then, if trouble ensues later on inside they are there also to eject any troublemakers. They don't force them to put on proper shoes before they even enter.

 

[SouthAussie]

It is not as simple as that. Bouncers may require sobriety and certain dress before an entry fee is paid. Then, if trouble ensues later on inside they are there also to eject any troublemakers. They don't force them to put on proper shoes before they even enter.

Yes, it is as simple as that. Pubs enforce dress code, as well as non-belligerent/violent behaviour. As masks are part of the dress code, security can require it .... or else you are out (and/or not in).

When you are inside a pub dance venue, if you take off your shoes security tell you to put them back on. If you don't comply you are out. I have seen it happen.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As I said in my post #361, you hire real security. They know how to deal with this stuff .. they deal with it every night at pub venues.

When a person starts real trouble (violence) that can't be contained, security call police for backup. The police can then do something. If a person leaves quietly - or even leaves complaining loudly - no reason to call the police for backup.

Is there even enough trained and equipped security people to work at every store in America? What about the cost to the stores?

 

[Clair Louise]

How do you suggest they force someone to put on a mask? Or to put it back on if they take it off in the store? At gunpoint? These mask "mandates" have no legal backup so the one doing the enforcing could be sued for assault. We have seen the outcomes from these attempts. People being shot and spat on. Who would want that job. The states would need to make a mask law first, like the seat belt or bike helmet laws.

If the employer wants to protect their staff they would have to require employees wear masks I guess, in the absence of state law.

BBM. The blackout rules in WW2 were not legally passed as laws either, but they were strictly enforced.
You do not have to force someone to wear a mask just as you do not force people to wear a shirt. You just refuse them entry.

 

[MimosaMornings]

It's sad that people won't comply and Walmart won't enforce their policy. I went into Walmart the other day and saw a couple of people not wearing masks and it actually startled me because I've been so used to everyone wearing masks there. I don't understand the people that don't wear masks and I was talking to my mom the other day, she is 70 and went to get a hair cut at a small town Iowa salon and the stylist was not wearing a mask and my mom won't wear a mask either. It makes me sad that something as simple as wearing a mask and people just do not care.

Walmart 11am on a Wednesday. NC
Pop up tent set up outside at the entrance with a person just standing looking at people as they go in.
Nothing said to those without masks.
Families - no masks.
Teenagers hanging out, playing with spray sanitizer.
Kids running around, parents ignoring their antics.
Masks under noses, on chins - employees.
Half of the customers were not wearing masks or social distancing.
I bought the one item I needed and left and sanitized.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is there even enough trained and equipped security people to work at every store in America? What about the cost to the stores?

The stores pay for employees. What is the cost of customer/staff safety, health and welfare?

People here look for answers, but when they are given there is always but .. but .. but.

These things can be done, and probably should be done. Don't let the stores off the hook by giving them excuses. imo

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Fauci, as well as the surgeon general, and others, early on were advising against the public wearing masks.

Probably because they didn't want us all to panic buy them (à la toilet paper) and leave none for the medics who really were in the midst of it!

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, it is as simple as that. Pubs enforce dress code, as well as non-belligerent/violent behaviour. As masks are part of the dress code, security can require it .... or else you are out (and/or not in).

When you are inside a pub dance venue, if you take off your shoes security tell you to put them back on. If you don't comply you are out. I have seen it happen.

That's not the same at all as forcing them to wear shoes instead of trainers for example before they enter and pay an entrance fee. If someone is wearing trainers no jacket or tie or whatever the dress code is they would refuse entry, not make them wear it. They can refuse entry to non mask wearers but don't want the hassle and cannot force them to wear one or stop them removing it or pulling it down below their nose, etc.

(ETA, mind you in the past I have also seen ties being loaned to some customers too but that wouldn't happen nowadays.)

 

[musicaljoke]

That's not the same at all as forcing them to wear shoes instead of trainers for example before they enter and pay an entrance fee. If someone is wearing trainers no jacket or tie or whatever the dress code is they would refuse entry, not make them wear it. They can refuse entry to non mask wearers but don't want the hassle and cannot force them to wear one or stop them removing it or pulling it down below their nose, etc.

Perhaps the store could implement the mask mandate much like our local airline handles the requirement to have luggage xrayed and submit to random xray checks and drug residue checks. A sign reads that you don't need to consent, but if you do, line up HERE. If you choose to not consent, line up in THIS LINE. The non-consent line takes you back outside. Heh!

 

[tresir2012]

The stores pay for employees. What is the cost of customer/staff safety, health and welfare?

People here look for answers, but when they are given there is always but .. but .. but.

These things can be done, and probably should be done. Don't let the stores off the hook by giving them excuses. imo

There is a cost to these things and stores and shoppers don't want the higher costs. For a few weeks, Tesco was sanitizing trolleys for shoppers and enforcing entry via only one door till shoppers got the hang of it and then sanitised their own trolleys. Those two guys are not there anymore. You cannot do everything. People have to take responsibility for themselves at some point.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Probably because they didn't want us all to panic buy them (à la toilet paper) and leave none for the medics who really were in the midst of it!

Maybe so but it backfired in their faces.

 

[tresir2012]

Perhaps the store could implement the mask mandate much like our local airline handles the requirement to have luggage xrayed and submit to random xray checks and drug residue checks. A sign reads that you don't need to consent, but if you do, line up HERE. If you choose to not consent, line up in THIS LINE. The non-consent line takes you back outside. Heh!

I like that option. Idiots queue here please

 

[SouthAussie]

That's not the same at all as forcing them to wear shoes instead of trainers for example before they enter and pay an entrance fee. If someone is wearing trainers no jacket or tie or whatever the dress code is they would refuse entry, not make them wear it. They can refuse entry to non mask wearers but don't want the hassle and cannot force them to wear one or stop them removing it or pulling it down below their nose, etc.

There is a cost to these things and stores and shoppers don't want the higher costs. For a few weeks, Tesco was sanitizing trolleys for shoppers and enforcing entry via only one door till shoppers got the hang of it and then sanitised their own trolleys. Those two guys are not there anymore. You cannot do everything. People have to take responsibility for themselves at some point.

And that, to me, is just making excuses for the stores not taking responsibility for the safety of all customers and staff.

When a country's resistors are resisting compliance of common-sense measures, you do something about it. imo

 

[Clair Louise]

There is a cost to these things and stores and shoppers don't want the higher costs. For a few weeks, Tesco was sanitizing trolleys for shoppers and enforcing entry via only one door till shoppers got the hang of it and then sanitised their own trolleys. Those two guys are not there anymore. You cannot do everything. People have to take responsibility for themselves at some point.

BBM. People are not taking responsibility though, so it does have to be enforced.

 

[Trino]

As I said in my post #361, you hire real security. They know how to deal with this stuff .. they deal with it every night at pub venues.

When a person starts real trouble (violence) that can't be contained, security call police for backup. The police can then do something. If a person leaves quietly - or even leaves complaining loudly - no reason to call the police for backup.

Here's a REAL company IMO. Menards is like Home Depot if you are not familiar. And, I have seen the burly security.

“There was a guard there and I came in and they stopped me and I said, ‘Oh, I’m here all the time” and they said no, this just went into place today – you need to have a mask.”

With his sense of humor intact, he complied.

“I went out to my vehicle and I put a t-shirt around my face and I came back in the store kind of to make a point,” Dean said.

Customers like Dean have said some of the guards enforcing the new policy have been armed.

In a statement, Menards told KIMT it has contracted a security company to help with the enforcement but says guards are in short supply. When the company runs out of unarmed guards, they will sometimes send one who is armed.
Mask or no mask? Menards forcing customers to wear masks

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Maybe so but it backfired in their faces.

But would it have been worse for all the medics to be struck down by the virus at it's peak, because selfish citizens stockpiled all the equipment and there was nothing left in the hospitals?

The upshot is, that each country should have had that stuff stockpiled. Every government and health department was aware a pandemic could happen at any time. The countries (mainly in SE Asia) who have more regular epidemics had plenty of masks for everyone, and funnily enough those countries have fared loads better in the case and death tolls.

What would have been more palpably useful is if they'd got us all making and buying cotton masks from day one.