Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #78

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  • #221
Interesting. I’ve seen several “come and visit Montana” commercials in the past few days. That’s new.

I have been seeing the “come and visit myrtle beach” ones all summer.
 
  • #222
It's arbitrary because BC does not have a statutory definition of "nightclub." Enforcement will be at the whim of the individual assigned to a given area. Banquet halls aren't all closed - just the ones that maybe aren't as "connected" as those that are attached to golf courses or yacht clubs. I just wish there was more intellectual honesty in play. People who can't drink at whatever venue is deemed a "nightclub," will drink next door at a "bar" or "restaurant." People who can't congregate at Ed's Family Banquet Hall will gather in the Platinum Ballroom at Bushwood Country Club. The whole thing is a meaningless gesture made so the authorities can justify their existence, in my opinion.

Nightclub attendees choosing to attend alternate venues will be subject to and restricted based on BC's Provincial Health regulations specific to whatever that alternate venue is. IOW, 1000 +/- people jammed together in a nightclub won't be jammed together someplace else at a restaurant, country club, etc due to the Covid regulations affecting those particular industries (i.e. limitations on patron numbers and seating requirements), not to mention steep fines for violations.

As for definition of nightclub being arbitrary, that is obviously able to be determined according to the industry under which they applied in order to be granted a business licence in the first place.
 
  • #223
Found it!

B.C. to shut down nightclubs, banquet halls; limit late-night alcohol sales at bars - Victoria News

"As to what qualifies as a nightclub, she said it would be those establishments whose “sole purpose is entertainment and liquor service.”"

That sounds like a nightmare to enforce - seems like very definition of "arbitrary," as it is decided by a person, or persons, rather than statute. But, if it works for them...

Surely they license establishments like most of North America does? There are different categories of liquor licenses, so when the business applies for and is granted one, they know exactly what kind of operation they are.

Where I live, community members have successfully halted new issues of liquor-only establishments (I can't remember the name for that type of license - but I think there are like 4 levels of liquor licenses in many places).

To add "entertainment" to a liquor-selling place is different than just a regular liquor license in many places. It's considered riskier, has different fire requirements, different numbers of entries and exits, etc. We have exactly 2 remaining liquor only establishments in my city - both around for more than 50 years, both in little tiny venues, one with an outdoor patio, one entirely indoors. No entertainment permitted (that only happens on unincorporated county land where I live).

Surely B.C. has some kind of system that already tells them which establishments fall under closures/quarantine bans.
 
  • #224
A CNN investigation into remdesivir finds that doctors in several developing countries report ample supplies of the drug, while US patients have faced shortages -- even though the drug is made by a US pharmaceutical company and was developed with the help of US taxpayer money.

"The government funded it, and patients in hospitals like ours couldn't get it," said Patterson, chief of the division of infectious diseases at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio.

The drug costs $2,340 for a five-day course of treatment, and US hospitals don't purchase it directly the way they do other drugs. Because there isn't enough to go around, HHS arranges for remdesivir to be shipped regularly to hospitals.

Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, an infectious disease specialist at UCSF Health, said that several times he's come close to not having enough for his Covid-19 patients.
"We've been very close to falling off the cliff," he said.
Then Chin-Hong got the idea of asking nearby hospitals to borrow some of their remdesivir, promising he'd return the favor when his hospital's next shipment came in.
"It's like we're in a medieval market and doing trades with chickens and goats," he said.

Covid-19 drug rationed in the US is plentiful in developing countries - CNN

The maker of remdesivir sold all his own manufactured supply to the US government. Then, he decided to make it virtually free to the "third world" by giving the ability to Indian manufacturers to make and distribute it - but not to the U.S.

We talked about it quite a bit many many threads ago, when it had just happened (actually much nearer the beginning of the pandemic).

I keep hearing that remdesivir swaps and trading are common throughout the Western U.S. The drug was originally produced in California, IIRC and now we can't produce it and we have to wait for federal supplies of it to come (and there is no public accounting of what has happened to the nation's supply, as far as I know - if any of you can sleuth that out, that would be great).
 
  • #225
If you follow the arrows back, you will see I am commenting on @MrX link and a VI response, which doesn't require a link.
Sorry, but I find your words to be a very confusing post. Guess I don't know what Mr X and a VI has to do with it...

The Banquet Halls and bars are being blamed when it appears to be the beach gatherings and congregating at fault.

I feel the opposite of what you say is true---lots of beaches are very well monitored now
...so can you help clarify?? Are you just being facetious??

 
  • #226
The many types of B.C. liquor licenses are in the sidebar on this government page:

Applying for a Liquor Licence or Permit - Province of British Columbia

The page also explains how CoVid affects each type of license. The licenses are very similar to those of my own city (wine bars are distinct from regular bars; specialty wine bars, aka tasting rooms, are different to wine bars, etc).
 
  • #227
Interesting. I’ve seen several “come and visit Montana” commercials in the past few days. That’s new.

I have been seeing the “come and visit myrtle beach” ones all summer.

And I would feel pretty certain that lots of those licence plates in town are from NY and NJ!!!

I am sure the long-term citizens of Montana, the Dakotas, Idaho.... are just loving all the ads to bring all those people from the West Coast to move to their states. ha ha ha!!! moo

I know someone in Idaho posted something about all the CA cars pulling through town!!

Some states ARE going to do better with the Grand Covid Migrations...so might as well advertise!!
moo moo moo
 
  • #228
Absolutely unbelievable. And corrupt. No ethics whatsoever. I can't even think of an explanation (besides defiance) for this.

Perhaps SD should use the money to invest in strategies for employment that don't depend on tourism. Like healthcare and contact tracing.
I guess they will get way more back from state taxes via the tourism. It's certainly not corrupt as it is SD's second largest industry. As explained -

"Fury said the line in the ad that touts the state as a "place to safely explore" fulfills Treasury's requirement for using the money to address the pandemic."
 
  • #229
I guess they will get way more back from state taxes via the tourism. It's certainly not corrupt as it is SD's second largest industry. As explained -

"Fury said the line in the ad that touts the state as a "place to safely explore" fulfills Treasury's requirement for using the money to address the pandemic."

This is odd, because our Governor took heat for rolling about a series of ads aimed at wearing masks that I believe he said were funded the same way. Perhaps there is some "special interest" language that earmarks some dollars for advertising? Seems like too much of a coincidence.
 
  • #230
Surely they license establishments like most of North America does? There are different categories of liquor licenses, so when the business applies for and is granted one, they know exactly what kind of operation they are.

Where I live, community members have successfully halted new issues of liquor-only establishments (I can't remember the name for that type of license - but I think there are like 4 levels of liquor licenses in many places).

To add "entertainment" to a liquor-selling place is different than just a regular liquor license in many places. It's considered riskier, has different fire requirements, different numbers of entries and exits, etc. We have exactly 2 remaining liquor only establishments in my city - both around for more than 50 years, both in little tiny venues, one with an outdoor patio, one entirely indoors. No entertainment permitted (that only happens on unincorporated county land where I live).

Surely B.C. has some kind of system that already tells them which establishments fall under closures/quarantine bans.
Not to mention which, it's obvious from the business name. If your business is a nightclub, you have the name 'nightclub' in your name. You don't call yourself a pub or a bar. That's how you advertise yourself and attract patrons who want to go to a nightclub.

Gotta say, regardless of what people in other countries think, BC voters are very supportive of their government actions and especially of the public health official who makes and announces all the decisions to prevent the spread of the virus.

'Four-in-five residents (83%) say the Horgan government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic has been “good” B.C. Spotlight: Massive lead over opposition may make an election irresistible to the NDP, but risks lie ahead - Angus Reid Institute

Dr. Bonnie Henry is Most Trusted Public Official in British Columbia

In an age of COVID villains, an unlikely hero has emerged: B.C.'s Dr. Bonnie Henry | National Post
 
  • #231
Gotta say, regardless of what people in other countries think, BC voters are very supportive of their government actions and especially of the public health official who makes and announces all the decisions to prevent the spread of the virus.

That's why this probably won't be an issue - venues will voluntarily follow the "spirit" of the order. Canada seems to be approaching this like Australia and New Zealand, where everyone is pretty much on the same page.

The problem (in the States, anyway) with arbitrary rulings is that they just turn into a search for loopholes.
 
  • #232
This is odd, because our Governor took heat for rolling about a series of ads aimed at wearing masks that I believe he said were funded the same way. Perhaps there is some "special interest" language that earmarks some dollars for advertising? Seems like too much of a coincidence.
One is for protection against the virus and the other is encouraging people to go to a hotspot, nothing to do with preventing the spread of the virus.
 
  • #233
I guess they will get way more back from state taxes via the tourism. It's certainly not corrupt as it is SD's second largest industry. As explained -

"Fury said the line in the ad that touts the state as a "place to safely explore" fulfills Treasury's requirement for using the money to address the pandemic."

Use of public funds is determined by law, not by the needs of a locale. Encouraging tourism, in general, is considered very bad for CoVid - but surely you've read the many linked articles here.

Oddly, SD is now one of the worst places to visit, per current stats in the NYTimes - they are having exponential growth in CoVid, whereas many other places (also dependent on tourism, such as Utah) are hunkering down.

And as a result, Utah and Arizona are bringing their situation under control whereas SD is emulating a wildfire.

With federal money intended to keep jobs (the Governor's strategy is personal, and IMO, unethical - we'll never know if it's legal or not, but it shouldn't be).
 
  • #234
Use of public funds is determined by law, not by the needs of a locale. Encouraging tourism, in general, is considered very bad for CoVid - but surely you've read the many linked articles here.

Oddly, SD is now one of the worst places to visit, per current stats in the NYTimes - they are having exponential growth in CoVid, whereas many other places (also dependent on tourism, such as Utah) are hunkering down.

And as a result, Utah and Arizona are bringing their situation under control whereas SD is emulating a wildfire.

With federal money intended to keep jobs (the Governor's strategy is personal, and IMO, unethical - we'll never know if it's legal or not, but it shouldn't be).
I think that all interstate travel should be limited to necessary business only until a vaccine or an effective therapeutics is available. JMO
 
  • #235
And I would feel pretty certain that lots of those licence plates in town are from NY and NJ!!!

I am sure the long-term citizens of Montana, the Dakotas, Idaho.... are just loving all the ads to bring all those people from the West Coast to move to their states. ha ha ha!!! moo

I know someone in Idaho posted something about all the CA cars pulling through town!!

Some states ARE going to do better with the Grand Covid Migrations...so might as well advertise!!
moo moo moo

Yes - that's exactly what is happening! While tourism may be important in SD, real estate is sure to become the next big thing. Sadly, it will price the young people of SD out of the market, as migration has done so many places.

It's the bigger income, work-from-home people who are moving. Their jobs are portable, if they still have them.

True story: my cousin once bought an entire town, basically. He and his wife started investing in real estate on the SF peninsula back in around 1965. By 1995, they were millionaires. In the early 2000's, they wanted to retire and live near nature. This tiny town had put all of its commercial real estate up for sale, along with its city parks and lands (they really needed cash). The town was in the high foothills of the Sierra Nevada, forested, all of that. So they bought the town (turned management of the town and the rental properties over to others, gave all business owners renovation money and gentrification advice, were hailed as local heroes, found a huge house as nice as any mansion in SF - but for only about $600,000.) The public lands are now nature preserves, because the new owners (my cousins) wanted them in perpetuity for birds and other animals. They were rewarded by getting all kinds of critters wandering their own acreage.

Town is now thriving as a tourist community. So - it's not always bad to have the rich Californians move in - but not all towns want that.

Everyone I know who is talking about moving wants to head to Montana, Wyoming and Utah...maybe South Dakota will now get some real estate business - I have yet to see any ads, but am seeing plenty for Montana (that would be youtube ads and FB ads).
 
  • #236
I think that's too extreme in the other direction.

The problem is the lack of social distancing. If people could get drunk ad party madly while staying 6 feet apart from strangers and wearing masks so they don't spray droplets all around, all would be well.
Perhaps the nightclubs could install “dance cages” and each patron would be assigned one for a certain amount of time. Drinks could be delivered to each one. JMO
 
  • #237
Las Vegas restaurant owners grateful to reopen bars, counters

...and another one that makes no sense. Bar seating is now allowed in restaurants, but bar top machines in casinos are still off limits. I don't know what they are looking at, but bar top gaming strikes me as a very socially distanced activity. When people are playing a machine at casino bar, the last thing they seem to want is a crowd of strangers looking over their shoulder.

My interpretation is that people tend to stay longer at a casino, sometimes even losing track of time. That is less likely to happen in a restaurant even if one opts to sit at the bar in that restaurant.

And of course going to an indoor public place for an hour (example) gives you less exposure than going to an indoor public place for several hours (example), all other things being equal (ie adjusted for seating distances etc)
IMO MOO
 
  • #238
I think that all interstate travel should be limited to necessary business only until a vaccine or an effective therapeutics is available. JMO
Limit flights to business travel only?
Or just restrict people visiting other states via vehicle for vacation purposes?
I don’t know what that would do to the airline industry. I think the tourists are taking advantage of cheap fares and doing the traveling over the summer moreso than business travelers. JMO
 
  • #239
The Banquet Halls and bars are being blamed when it appears to be the beach gatherings and congregating at fault.

You might be misunderstanding the article. It seems that bars are being blamed because contact tracing is finding them to be the source. But Jeff Guignard, who is not involved with the Provincial Office of Health, is pointing the finger at beach gatherings.

From the article you are referencing, it doesn't appear to be the case that the Medical Officer of Health is closing down the wrong source.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...e-order-nightclubs-banquet-halls-bc-1.5716742
 
  • #240
Perhaps the nightclubs could install “dance cages” and each patron would be assigned one for a certain amount of time. Drinks could be delivered to each one. JMO
Ha! If it lasts long enough, someone will do it. Actually, you could be with up to 5 other friends in one. They'd be a real drag to clean after each group left, though.
 
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