Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #82

[pocketaccent]

Oh, wow. He is really really short of breath. It looks like he's using accessory muscles to breath as well. Drawing breath through the mouth...

Hopefully, the oxygen is nearby. Poor guy. Being unable to catch your breath is an awful feeling. And scary.

I thought he was going to pass out and was glad he didn't. Yeah, he is really ill and looked to be in pain. I'm worried for so many reasons.

 

[Simply Southern]

Well, he is sick.

I'm 57. Frankly, when I walk up 2 flights of steps wearing a mask, I'm pretty much gasping and I'm not sick or overweight. Jmo

Note to self. Exercise more.

Thinking the same thing. He took those steps at a steady pace, no pause. At 74 yo, AFTER Covid.

He was outside. NBC had live feed of him coming back outside on the left side, with a mask on.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Trump returns to White House and removes mask despite having Covid

The message was jarring not only because it was irresponsible but that it came from a current coronavirus patient who has experienced serious symptoms of the disease and whose recovery has included experimental treatments unavailable to most Americans.

 

[10ofRods]

How far inside did he go without it? Which rooms did he go in?

Well, it appeared to be one of the anterooms/receiving rooms of the White House - where servants go in and out (but perhaps they've cordoned off his entire area of the White House - I doubt we'll ever know).

But the message he sent to those watching is that it's okay to take your mask off when you go inside (which many, many people believe - and I posted an article about a family in Florida who believed that and who lost their 12 year old daughter to CoVid - transmitted by her father, who thought he only needed to wear a mask at his LE job).

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, he's using accessory muscles, not surprising. But we know that he has oxygen available inside the White House and surely he'll be more comfortable there (unless he takes a turn for the worse).

I wonder what happens if a Covid patient who still has active virions gets a further viral load after coming off the anti-virals? There are no studies, since other patients aren't allowed to do this.

He is surely still virion-positive, as there are zero studies saying that any of his treatments can completely expunge CoVid - but it will gradually disappear from the body. Right now, due esp. to the regeneron, he's in the same situation as someone much younger with an active, healthy immune system. What no one knows is how long that lasts.

Me, personally, I believe (based on studies of monoclonal antibodies in other primates) that this immunity lasts for a while - months. Does it stimulate humoral immunity? I think it does - but we don't know if it's "as good" as the person's own unique response.

At any rate, he's a study of 1 person (no one else has ever had exactly this treatment, at least not in any published study).

He is off of taking antivirals?

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I wonder what happens if a Covid patient who still has active virions gets a further viral load after coming off the anti-virals? There are no studies, since other patients aren't allowed to do this.

I'm wondering, too. Surely his doctors and wife don't want him to take the chance of increased load or some other infection while he's still recovering. If that were my husband, he'd voluntarily go back to Walter Reed just to get away from my mouth on this subject. Mask all the way, babe.

 

[Lilibet]

The infectious President defiantly taking off his mask for a photo op is terrible public health messaging, let alone endangering anyone who is around him. Anyone who has to interact with him inside the White House is being deliberately endangered and disrespected. Regardless of politics, how anyone can think this is OK is beyond me, but excuses will be made. JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I've posted before about this. All of these people are using the rapid tests counter to the manufacturer's explicit instructions.

They are not accurate if the person is asymptomatic (or even paucisymptomatic). They are only 94-95% accurate to begin with. But the manufacturer explicitly states that they should only be used when there are symptoms (plural).

They are not for screening asymptomatic patients. That's why the president had to get a different test (in his case, he had the results of the PCR swab test in 2 hours).

But people can test negative on those rapid tests over and over for the first week of their infection. The tests are designed for people who show up at ER's or clinics, with symptoms of cold/flu and the staff needs to know right away if it's CoVid.

It gave all of them a false sense of security (and is still being used in the same way, for many people who wish to be at big public gatherings and think they are "screened" for CoVId).

It was just a matter of time until this happened - MMW, it will happen again.

PCR/swab tests are about 99% accurate but take more than 15 minutes and require a lab.

Are you including the WH as not following manufacturers' instructions with their tests? Have you a link? That is putting the President at risk.

Yes, we discussed a few days back on the thread.

The White House relied on a rapid test, but used it in a way it was not intended.

But one product they use, Abbott’s ID Now, was never intended for that purpose and is known to deliver incorrect results. In issuing an emergency use authorization, the Food and Drug Administration said the test was only to be used by a health care provider “within the first seven days of symptoms.”

The ID Now has several qualities in its favor: It’s portable, doesn’t need skilled technicians to operate and delivers results in 15 minutes. Used to evaluate someone with symptoms, the test can quickly and easily diagnose Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

But in people who are infected but not yet showing symptoms, the test is much less accurate, missing as many as one in three cases.

 

[SouthAussie]

Trump returns to White House and removes mask despite having Covid

The message was jarring not only because it was irresponsible but that it came from a current coronavirus patient who has experienced serious symptoms of the disease and whose recovery has included experimental treatments unavailable to most Americans.

"The building he's returning to has become a center for viral contagion -- in part because of disregard for mitigation measures."

"As more of his aides test positive for the disease and questions emerge about what steps have been taken to curtail the spread, Trump's physician Dr. Sean Conley offered few details on how staff members would be kept safe upon Trump's return to the White House, which is equipped with its own medical suite."

 

[CharlestonGal]

Which is why, in my opinion, it is madness that he's insisting on these photo ops and going back to the White House instead of resting up properly at Walter Reed.

It does not inspire confidence. Quite the opposite, as far as I am concerned.

That was unnerving, to say the least. I expected him to at least be breathing somewhat normally since the doctors let him leave. Those small, hitching inhalations are concerning.

 

[10ofRods]

He is off of taking antivirals?

The anti-viral he was on is administered only at hospitals and via IV.

Of course, as Commander in Chief, he could order the Walter Reed doctors to provide it to him at home - we don't know. But typically it's a 5 day course. I believe they said he got his last dose today and he had to wait for it, before they'd release him.

So yep, now he's on his own. Resdemivir is amazing, but it's not a miracle. I hope everyone realizes that while Resdemivir helps, it is only a modest aid to the body's overall course of CoVid (see below). Still, he's not that old (humoral immunity starts to decline rapidly at about age 80-85, he's not in that category).

People do slightly better at surviving CoVid with that drug, but their longterm illness isn't really changed much. It usually isn't given to people without lung studies showing pathologies...

Trial of Remdesivir for Moderate COVID-19 Shows Modest Results, Uncertainties

 

[katydid23]

Is posting a Tweet the proper way to file a report?

I think nowadays, TWEETING is a great way to file a report that needs to be shared publicly.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The anti-viral he was on is administered only at hospitals and via IV.

Of course, as Commander in Chief, he could order the Walter Reed doctors to provide it to him at home - we don't know. But typically it's a 5 day course. I believe they said he got his last dose today and he had to wait for it, before they'd release him.

So yep, now he's on his own. Resdemivir is amazing, but it's not a miracle. I hope everyone realizes that while Resdemivir helps, it is only a modest aid to the body's overall course of CoVid (see below). Still, he's not that old (humoral immunity starts to decline rapidly at about age 80-85, he's not in that category).

People do slightly better at surviving CoVid with that drug, but their longterm illness isn't really changed much. It usually isn't given to people without lung studies showing pathologies...

Trial of Remdesivir for Moderate COVID-19 Shows Modest Results, Uncertainties

So you don't know if the President is continuing his treatments at the White House.

I would venture to say that he is still getting whatever IV's of any drug his doctors feel is necessary. JMO

 

[oviedo]

Well that's not good. That's how the White House got infected in the first place - failing to follow established guidelines.

So many of them now have it, it might be worth considering quarantining the entire WH and the staff for the next 14 days. Otherwise, they're just going to keep transmitting it to each other. And their families.

I wish the CDC could do something about this situation - I feel we are all helpless ..
Jmo

 

[Kikixxxx]

The infectious President defiantly taking off his mask for a photo op is terrible public health messaging, let alone endangering anyone who is around him. Anyone who has to interact with him inside the White House is being deliberately endangered and disrespected. Regardless of politics, how anyone can think this is OK is beyond me, but excuses will be made. JMO

Well so far I’ve not seen anyone around him when he’s had his mask off Until I see otherwise I’m not going to accuse him of “deliberately endangering and disrespecting” anyone.

 

[gitana1]

Nearly 1/3 of COVID patients had altered mental state.

Nearly a third of hospitalized Covid-19 patients experienced some type of altered mental function — ranging from confusion to delirium to unresponsiveness — in the largest study to date of neurological symptoms among coronavirus patients in an American hospital system.

And patients with altered mental function had significantly worse medical outcomes, according to the study, published on Monday in Annals of Clinical and Translational Neurology. The study looked at the records of the first 509 coronavirus patients hospitalized, from March 5 to April 6, at 10 hospitals in the Northwestern Medicine health system in the Chicago area.

Some experts said that President Trump, currently hospitalized with the coronavirus, is of the age and gender of the patients in the study who were more likely to develop altered mental function and therefore could be at higher risk for such symptoms. He also has a history of high cholesterol, one of the pre-existing conditions that appear to increase risk. But the president’s doctors have given no indication that he has had any neurological symptoms.

Altered mental function was not the only neurological complication the Northwestern study found. Over all, 82 percent of the hospitalized patients had neurological symptoms at some point in the course of the disease from symptom onset through hospitalization, the study found.

Nearly 1/3 of Covid Patients in Study Had Altered Mental State

I don’t know. I mean those in the study were in the ICU, severely ill, not admitted to the hospital in an “abundance of caution” with mild symptoms and undergoing exceedingly aggressive preventative treatment.

My bet is he’s fine. There has been zero indication that he’s delirious, delusional or very ill at all this far.

 

[WildOrchid]

I cannot even believe what I just watched! A grown man, diagnosed with Covid, returns to a building FULL of staff (who have families of their own they want to protect) without a mask. Flouting his “decision” in front of literally the entire world. He has to know by now that it isn’t a frigging “hoax” because you can see he feels like the bottom of a shoe! But rather than admit to himself that he feels like dook and wear his mask to set an example to the people who still think it’s a hoax, he decides to pretend to feel well and strong. For what? How does that help anyone be responsible and wear their own mask? Does he think the average joe who gets infected by acting “well and strong” will get the medical treatment that the POTUS gets? I’m flabbergasted. Absolutely wordless! What in the everloving bleep?

 

[gitana1]

I wish the CDC could do something about this situation - I feel we are all helpless ..
Jmo

They can. And won’t. The CDC used to go into plants and totally shut production when outbreaks of disease occurred. Now they don’t even have the courage to do more than issue “suggestions” about critical hygiene and safety protocols.

 

[CharlestonGal]

The anti-viral he was on is administered only at hospitals and via IV.

Of course, as Commander in Chief, he could order the Walter Reed doctors to provide it to him at home - we don't know. But typically it's a 5 day course. I believe they said he got his last dose today and he had to wait for it, before they'd release him.

So yep, now he's on his own. Resdemivir is amazing, but it's not a miracle. I hope everyone realizes that while Resdemivir helps, it is only a modest aid to the body's overall course of CoVid (see below). Still, he's not that old (humoral immunity starts to decline rapidly at about age 80-85, he's not in that category).

People do slightly better at surviving CoVid with that drug, but their longterm illness isn't really changed much. It usually isn't given to people without lung studies showing pathologies...

Trial of Remdesivir for Moderate COVID-19 Shows Modest Results, Uncertainties

He was given his 4th dose of remdesivir this afternoon before discharge. He will receive his 5th and last dose tomorrow evening at the WH and will also continue on dex. His doctor refused to answer what other meds he is on.

 

[Sundog]

I have another take to add to the list of speculation about the President as he stood at the top of the steps before entering the White House. Who knows about his breathing or if he was in pain, for me, I thought that his watching and waiting for the helicopter (Marine1) to leave was a very emotional moment for him. The whole transition from the hospital to back home had to be very emotional and somewhat overwhelming to make all these transitions over the last week or so.

I felt the emotional weight of the moment, just watching it on television! So for him, I have the greatest empathy, and wish him a comfortable night and homecoming, and improved health each day ahead.