Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #86

[margarita25]

American government funds a Covid plasma manufacturing concern...that isn't.

A series of similar "investments" are recounted in the article.

Hi, I’m having trouble with this link. Could someone please bring forward some snippets? Thanks in advance.
eta @10ofRods

 

[margarita25]

Herd immunity is another term for "do nothing and let it rip through the country"
Giving it a fancy name doesn't change what it is- it is a disgrace that our leaders are not helping lead us out of this-

Herd immunity, turd immunity. This falsehood is going to kill us further. Something needs to be done about it, as I indicated in my earlier post.

 

[drama_farmer]

I agree with everything you've said here. My own take on this is that Americans are still too leery of our officials, and I'd like to see a national campaign, such as we saw to help people quit smoking. I'd like to see television commercials that strike a chord with viewers and explain why they should be taking precautions.

I recall watching those tv spots and smoking right through them. Maybe the ads convinced some to seek help for the addiction, maybe there's a study out there.

Imo, it was the issue of "second hand" smoke, coupled with cig taxes (prices soar) and local/federal no smoking ordinances (with fines) that quickened the stop smoking movement.

Interesting parallel: smokers were assigned responsibility for the air quality surrounding their person, because it may negatively impact the health of those around them.
But, there were real consequences for that behavior: social and monetary.

A meaningful public health campaign isn't just about asking nicely, imo.

 

[GRT]

Can you explain what you mean by 'knowing the source' of the virus? And how that relates to what virologists need to know to predict risk of future pandemics?

We have the complete phylogeny of CV19 (and have had it almost since the pandemic began). China failed to alert the world properly and in time, according to many - but that's not what scientists and virologists study.

The phylogenetic tracking of CV19 is thorough. Here's an early article (written Feb-March, published March-April). There were already 13 other articles (bibliography at end of that article) on where the virus came from (which can be seen in the phylogenetic research) and many since that time.

We known a lot about coronaviruses before this pandemic and we know that it is zoonotic (came from non-human animals) and is nearly identical to a virus found in bats. So far, the research shows the earliest known cases were in Wuhan. The way that pandemic risk is assessed is by studying the R-naught number of each known virus. That's been done many places. These epidemiological analyses do not depend on knowing where the virus came from.

The history of the virus is, of course, of political and historic interest. The ways in which animal viruses jump into human populations are well known and well studied.

It seems to me the only question left unanswered (which has nothing to do with assessing the virus itself) is the human behavior that allowed the zoonotic transmission. Was it wet markets? Or was it human error by a lab worker? The answer to that speaks to human policies and scientific ethics, not to virology or epidemiology. Everyone knows, if they work with viruses in a lab, what the safety protocols are. I figure it would be applied psychology or other human subjects research that would tell us why lab workers make mistakes.

The wet market problem is well known and well documented. In fact, there's way more scientific evidence on the consistent and persistent zoonotic transmission of viruses associated with wet markets, way before CV-19.

But if lab workers were careless and one got the virus him/herself, I suppose you could claim that China knows this and just isn't telling. But that's not an issue that would in any way affect our studies of the epidemiology of CV-19 as a pathogen.

Basics of coronavirus phylogenetic study

We don't know the origin species--the source animal-- because they scrubbed the wet market before testing the animals. They did find 15 samples of the virus but are not positive they were shed by animals or humans.

They originally blamed illegal wildlife sales, but some of the scientists produced photos of dead rodents.

Then, they reported that four of the five original victims had no link to the wet market. And, then this from the article:

Dr. Gao, the director of China’s C.D.C., told the journal Science in March that the virus may not have originated at the market. Maybe, he said, it “could be a place where the virus was amplified,” meaning it began elsewhere but spread wildly there.

We also have Chinese officials saying the virus was discovered in European sewers last year, before it ever showed up in Wuhan.

If it did originate at the market, we may now never know the original animal source.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

 

[margarita25]

View attachment 270312

Yes, and to add to that:

“Nobody is safe until we are all safe”.
-Dr. Mike Ryan

We don't know the origin species--the source animal-- because they scrubbed the wet market before testing the animals. They did find 15 samples of the virus but are not positive they were shed by animals or humans.

They originally blamed illegal wildlife sales, but some of the scientists produced photos of dead rodents.

Then, they reported that four of the five original victims had no link to the wet market. And, then this from the article:



We also have Chinese officials saying the virus was discovered in European sewers last year, before it ever showed up in Wuhan.

If it did originate at the market, we may now never know the original animal source.

I am optimistic they will find the source, as it took them a year to find the source of MERS (dromedary camels). Here’s to hoping.

I have many ideas on the source, many of which I’ve shared. Top of my list, in addition to various wet markets, is possibly those folks who go into the caves and scrape the bat dung for fertilizer, going in for bird’s nest soup, putting themselves right in the middle of these live bats..etc...I am far from an expert on zoonotic spillover, but we do know they found SARS in the caves of Yunnan.

Quick link for reference:
Bat cave solves mystery of deadly SARS virus — and suggests new outbreak could occur
2017

Also, Guangdong has been on my list since the start, for various reasons, jmo.

 

[10ofRods]

Hi, I’m having trouble with this link. Could someone please bring forward some snippets? Thanks in advance.
eta @10ofRods

//When the Trump administration gave a well-connected Republican donor seed money to test a possible COVID-19-fighting blood plasma technology, it noted the company’s “manufacturing facilities” in Charleston, South Carolina.//

//
Zurlo founded Plasma Technologies in 2003...The company’s most recently listed address is Zurlo’s condominium in Charleston’s French Quarter.

The company has no other presence in South Carolina — or any other state — even though a U.S. government spokeswoman told the AP that Plasma Technologies has “manufacturing facilities” in Charleston.

“Fairy tale,” LaPlante said when asked if Plasma Technologies operates any commercial space in South Carolina’s most populous city.//

Upshot is that Zurlo got a contract after donating millions of dollars to GOP campaigns, most notably to Santorum who, apparently, the one pushing/recommending this expenditure of healthcare funds. The method that Zurlo proposes to use (and has proposed for years) is outdated and antiquated - plus, he doesn't actually produce anything using that method and has no capability of testing its outcome.

//Zurlo’s close relationship to Santorum offered a direct line into the FDA. The former senator had built a connection with Dr. Peter Marks, a senior FDA official, according to the documents obtained by AP.//

The article also cites other contracts awarded to questionable entities, based on campaign contributions. Zurlo also claims to be able to "cure" genetic diseases (such as trisomies) with his plasma extraction process. Naturally, there's no evidence of that.

By June, 2020 a number of highly placed medical professions within the government and military were basically whistle-blowing.

//
In a June 12 email to HHS scientists, Army Lt. Col. Kara Schmid wrote that the price tag for Plasma Technologies was too high, even for the Pentagon, and that key parts of the company’s proposal were too vague.//

Zurlo is in huge debt. It looks like he may have used the money to help resolve that...Looks like it was about $13.4 million promised. Santorum says he invested initially and wants to see a return on his investment. Zurlo says he will donate any profits to the Catholic Church (so it appears that Zurlo and Santorum are disagreeing)...

This wasn't Zurlo's first governmental contract. Initially, Santorum insisted the plasma tech was proven, but of course, FDA has not agreed. I don't think Zurlo got $13M - the reporter isn't clear on that. The company's name is Abeona. One government official said Zurlo has only gotten $750,000 so far...

 

[margarita25]

LOTS of schools with active outbreaks. Good that Colorado has this resource though.

As an outsider, it really drives it home how rampant this plague is, when you click on the dots and see all the types of places with outbreaks.

Jumping off this post, I really wonder how much schools have played a role in these increased numbers, children bringing it home to their families. I suspect it it could be a significant portion. Jmo.

How many teachers have been infected to date, I wonder.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I think it’s more likely the hospital administration than the physicians. Not that some docs wouldn’t go along with it.
Just saying this as a former RN who worked in med surg and oncology and saw patients charged for things that were never used. Then there is the “cash price” they give you versus the considerably higher price if it’s billed to insurance. I know this firsthand from our own experience as patients (me and my DH) .
Our medical system, big Pharma, etc, needed a serious overhaul long before this pandemic, IMO.

Yes....one of the biggest rabbit holes of them all..... insurance companies. Total horror shows to come. Can't go there now.
All this covid expense is going to come back and bite us, for sure.

 

[drama_farmer]

I've only read the summary so far, but this looks helpful for the cause:

Peripheral Oxygen Saturation in Older Persons Wearing Nonmedical Face Masks in Community Settings
Wearing a 3-layer nonmedical face mask was not associated with a decline in oxygen saturation in older participants. The pooled mean Spo2 was 96.1% before, 96.5% while, and 96.3% after wearing the mask.

 

[margarita25]

Dear God, just looked at the Colorado graph.

(google “covid Colorado” then scroll down, you can do this for any state)

 

[LadyL]

Why Ontario hospitals are full to bursting, despite few COVID-19 patients

 

[margarita25]

Colorado COVID-19 Data Much Worse, Deniers Don't Care

“The latest data from the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment about COVID-19 is startlingly bad, with third-wave case numbers close to triple those of the first two waves, and hospitalizations at a point not seen since April. But even with Denver and Adams counties now classified as high-risk areas and several other municipalities flirting with a potential stay-at-home designation, a percentage of the populace spent this weekend engaging in pandemic-defying behavior, including a so-called "MAGA Drag the Interstate" rally and Halloween parties allegedly involving scads of University of Colorado Boulder students.“

 

[LadyL]

Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #85

Well, the Walgreens I mentioned in a post Wednesday — the one where people weren’t wearing masks—is now “temporarily closed. No further info available”. Googling confirmed that’s what they say if they close the store due to COVID infection. It also seems that they don’t report it, call people who have been there to alert them or give any information if you call.

I’ve been super careful. That Walgreens is literally the only place I’ve been in two weeks and ironically I went for a flu shot. It sure would be nice to know if one the pharmacists I was locked in a small room with were among those who tested positive. I’ll call in the morning but based on what I read sounds like they won’t be willing to tell me either way.

I wore a mask and gloves, pharmacists had masks but no gloves. But who knows how many of those unmasked customers had been in that tiny room breathing droplets of whatever all over the place. I’m worried for me and even moreso for my high-risk DH who I’ve been breathing on for the past 4 days.

..... sigh

oh no!
keep us posted

 

[Deleted member 158085]

All but one region of Illinois has now increased mitigation measures and shut down indoor dining and indoor bar service.

Indoor dining and bar service will close on Wednesday across Heart of Illinois

 

[margarita25]

Outbreak data | Colorado COVID-19 Updates

(making note to check for similar maps in other states - if you guys find them, please post, just google “x state outbreak map”, or “...data”, etc. tia.)

 

[SouthAussie]

Why Ontario hospitals are full to bursting, despite few COVID-19 patients

I wish people would focus on this part of the problem a little. We are hearing it over and over. Nurses are not something you can ramp up quickly. They need years of study and training.
Even here, where our problem is lesser, a retired nurse friend of mine was asked to come out of retirement and help with the Victorian outbreak.

It is a really huge reason why this virus needs to be put under control.


"Nurses are working beyond their normal hours and being requested on a regular basis to cover for vacancies," said McKenna in an interview.

"I've got to tell you, they're weary, they're tired," she said.

"How long can they continue to work at this pace and deliver the care that they need to and that they want to? That's what they're worried about when they're stretched so thin."

 

[margarita25]

All but one region of Illinois has now increased mitigation measures and shut down indoor dining and indoor bar service.

Indoor dining and bar service will close on Wednesday across Heart of Illinois

What a shame to see this all going down. Economy is heading towards and even more HORRIFiC BLOW, imo, in the time to follow. Let’s hope there’s some miraculous cure for the economy. Now we are totally screwed. Jmo.

Dr. Fauci, in that Rolling Stone video interview posted here, when asked about mistakes and what could have been done better, he specifically mentioned the lack of “phased re-openings”, that he, Dr. Birx and others had created/outlined. He said when things opened back up it should have been done gradually in these phases, but instead it was the total opposite. Again, the interview is a good one if you guys have 20 minutes to burn.

 

[Midgie2]

My daughter is an Army nurse and she told me two days ago that they are gearing up for U.S. deployment any day now. She has no idea where they’ll be stationed, but said they’ll be helping at the already established hospitals in need of medical staff. (Last time she was at the Javits center N.Y.
And like last time, plenty of doctors will be deployed too.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have to admit that I am not a Fauci fan--not because of anything he's done or said since this pandemic started, but because he opposed dozens of medical researchers who petitioned the Obama Administration to stop funding gain-of-function research on viruses. He actually was instrumental in sending funding to the Wuhan Lab to promote that very type of research.

Too dangerous for me. And, I think a foolhardy stance for Fauci to take. The ban implemented by the Obama Administration should never have been lifted.

JMOO

Whether you like him or not ... that research was opened back up in December 2017. And being involved with the research has some very valid aspects, as discussed earlier in the threads. A country can remain ignorant and uninvolved, or it can oversee and ensure that safety is adhered to. So that lab experiments do not leave the lab.

And it wasn't Dr Fauci who reopened the research.


"We have a responsibility to ensure that research with infectious agents is conducted responsibly, and that we consider the potential biosafety and biosecurity risks associated with such research."
Feds lift gain-of-function research pause, offer guidance