Coronavirus - Global Health Emergency, 2019-nCoV #3

[gitana1]

Video from 2 days ago of the couple on the Princess cruise ship docked in Japan:

and an update just posted 8 hours ago:

Gosh. Such British calm!!

 

[Medstudies]

So back to the “hospitals” -

MOO- I suspect China is playing loose - and is or will be using these patients to test various medications/treatment that are currently under development.

So I just want to point out the Nuremberg Code- part of it which reads: “During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.”


- I don’t really think these patients are freely choosing to be confined, or to receive treatment...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199711133372006

 

[KALI]

The Chinese citizens are not allowed to be armed right? I don't think this round up
(probably enforced with threat of jail) would work in most of the US.

Boy, if the people in Wuhan were not already afraid, now they definitely will be. I cannot imagine the fear they will have when that knock comes on their door.

I have to now assume the officials are going to mistakingly send many healthy people to these internment camps. Because we already know there is no immediate test that can prove one has it, so if all they are using are fever checks, etc., what if someone had just got done working out or just took a hot shower, and so their temperature may be high when that knock comes on the door.

This is awful. Last week I saw a video where officials there were allegedly welding bars across an apartment complex door to lock people inside and you could hear residents screaming at them from above. With these new measures, I suspect there will be lots more yelling and unrest as the officials begin forcibly removing people against their will. And likely some of them will be perfectly healthy people.

Notice the official threatening the people with shame too. My understanding is national pride is a big cultural thing in areas like that. So with that threat of shame, the people there will take the threat very seriously IMO.

"A top Chinese official has ordered authorities where the coronavirus originated to go house-to-house and send those infected to quarantine internment camps"

"Sun ordered medical workers to go door-to-door to move any of those infected, with force, if necessary, to makeshift quarantine camps that include a convention center and other converted buildings"

"Set up a 24-hour duty system. During these wartime conditions, there must be no deserters, or they will be nailed to the pillar of historical shame forever,” Sun said on Thursday."

'Wartime conditions': Official orders Wuhan round up residents with coronavirus and send them to quarantine camps

 

[gitana1]

Video from 2 days ago of the couple on the Princess cruise ship docked in Japan:

and an update just posted 8 hours ago:

These people are fabulous. I have to mention it again. I would be going insane. I'm claustrophobic. They're so gracious and patient.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Gosh. Such British calm!!

The second video was more concerning. What a lovely couple.

 

[KALI]

Depends on what politicians are elected. IMO

Just be glad you live in the western world and this would never be allowed to happen here.

 

[gitana1]

The Chinese citizens are not allowed to be armed right? I don't think this round up
(probably enforced with threat of jail) would work in most of the US.

It would be war in the states. Everyone is armed.

 

[beatrixpotter]

I keep hearing or reading people saying that this is less deadly than the flu. Where is that coming from? I'd heard it was 2% death rate with CV. But today I read that the death rate in Wuhan was actually closer to 4% which is where the majority of cases are. But I'd also heard flu was .10%

My biggest concern is that I've heard that the percentage of people needing "intensive" care is around 25%. Then today I heard the WHO talk on this and they said 15% are in severe shape and 3% critical.

Does anyone have any idea how that compares to the flu? I'm skeptical about our flu stats and how they come up with them since hearing they don't actually count each adult with the flu but basically lump all respiratory illness together as a flu death if the patient dies. But I sure as heck have never seen 18-25% of the people I know need hospitalization for the flu let alone breathing assistance and I believe they also specified ECMO in that talk. That is a crazy high percentage of people being seriously or critically ill.

Also, if it's really no worse than the flu then why are they requiring masses more medical care/hospitals/quarantine camps? I'm sure China deals with the flu in the winter as well.

I'm just not buying the, "It's no different than the flu. But we need to prevent anyone from China coming over here and quarantine every citizen who does manage to come back here." If this many people were actually getting this sick and dying at this rate from the flu then why the heck aren't we closing down borders every winter? The messages are just so mixed. "It's fine. Don't panic. Let the government panic for you."

 

[Amonet]

A couple tips I have heard, BTW, besides washing ones hands in order to avoid viruses:

Gargle each night for 30 seconds with an alcohol based or saline mouthwash. Make sure you’re letting it hit the back of your throat.

Take Q-tips and swab them in alcohol-based mouth wash and swab the insides of each nostril (using a different Q-tip for each nose).

4 Surprising Things That Help Ward Off Cold and Flu Bugs (Bet You've Never Tried These!)

But I’m not a doctor. And the q-tips could maybe inflame nasal passages if done daily? I only do that when I’ve been around someone coughing or sneezing.

They also have those Zicam nose swabs though which are soothing to me and I think I’ve successfully used them to prevent viruses or lessen the symptoms in the past.

In the meantime, as we panic about the corona virus:

“...at least 19 million people in the U.S. have experienced flu illnesses this season, the CDC estimates. About 180,000 people have been hospitalized so far, and an estimated 10,000 have died. Sixty-eight children have died this flu season.

As the world focuses on coronavirus, a deadly flu has killed at least 10,000 Americans

And yet no calls to quarantine people with the flu. AND we have people aggressively trying to prevent people from getting the flu vaccine.

To your final line...

Yes, I think we do need to remind ourselves about the flu to help us keep it in perspective. However, flu goes around every year, so a lot of people will not come down again with the same strain that was circulating last year? A lot of people are getting the flu vaccine, especially those in higher risk groups, carers, etc. And hospitals are used to getting a certain number of flu patients each year.

We don't know yet exactly what the mortality rate is for the novel coronavirus, we don't know yet how many people infected would really need hospitalisation. No one would have antibodies for this strain. Can hospitals in most countries cope with the extra patient-load, especially those with greater needs? It could double or triple the number of people unable to go into work due to having flu or the new coronavirus infection.

There's now apparently a global shortage of things like masks and other protective gear for hospital staff, and so far it's only hit China and in relatively small overall numbers compared to the flu!

I can definitely see why they (governments) want to try to limit the spread of this virus and try to hold it at bay until there's a vaccine.

I think we need to differentiate here between the precautions we'd take if this was an already established virus like flu and the precautions taken for this to try and prevent it from taking hold across the globe as a brand new virus for which we're not prepared.

This virus is also in a stage where virologists need to learn about it. One way to do that is to study what happens with the people in quarantine who then come down with it, and to study the few cases there are (where it's getting through in small numbers in countries other than China).

 

[Medstudies]

Depends on what politicians are elected. IMO

Fun reading: https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/620003p.pdf

beginning with page 14... but here’s a snip:
Restriction of Movement.
(1) Quarantine, isolation, and conditional release are types of restriction of movement that can be imposed in certain circumstances by a military commander for individuals within the scope of the commander’s authority.
(a) In the case of Service members, restrictions of movement, including isolation, quarantine, conditional release, or any other measure necessary to prevent or limit transmitting a communicable disease and enhance public safety may be implemented.
(b) In the case of persons under the commander’s authority other than Service members, restrictions of movement may include isolation or limiting ingress and egress to, from,
SECTION 3: DOD PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY DECLARATIONS AND EMERGENCY HEALTH POWERS 19
DoDI 6200.03 March 28, 2019

or on a DoD installation or military command. Coordination with civilian public health officials, including the CDC, SLTT, and HN public health agencies, may be required.
(2) In the United States, restriction of movement should be considered in coordination with the local CDC quarantine officer and SLTT public health. These agencies have public health authorities that may be applicable when the military commander’s authority is limited.
(a) Authority for restriction of movement may vary between civilian public health officials depending on the situation and scope of applicable law. Civilian public health officials may provide vocal authorization for the military commander to restrict the movement of individuals not within the military commander’s scope of authority until a formal written order is issued by the CDC or SLTT public health official

 

[dotr]

Posting my thoughts on this again because it is still bugging me..
How come people are covered from head to ....ankle, but not wearing protection of some sort on their feet/shoes?
Especially for those people who have to go outside to use the port-a-potties ect..
imo
ETA
July 2019 rbbm
Are my shoes dirty? Studies suggest they're covered in fecal bacteria
''Your clodhoppers track in dirt, yes, but also fecal germs and diarrhea-inducing bacteria, studies show, and the shoes themselves can get dirtier than a toilet seat. And science has shown just what makes up that filth, too.

Even Charles Gerba, a University of Arizona microbiologist who conducted a seminal study on the subject, was surprised.

"I'm starting to make myself paranoid," Gerba told the Baltimore Sun when his study debuted in 2008. "It seems like we step in a lot more poop than I thought."

For the study, 10 people wore brand-new shoes for two weeks before their kicks were sampled for bacteria. The outside of the shoes averaged 421,000 units of bacteria, compared with 2,887 on the inside. And fecal bacteria appeared on 96% of the shoes.

That fecal bacteria "indicates frequent contact with fecal material, which most likely originates from floors in public restrooms or contact with animal fecal material outdoors," Gerba said for the study.

And here's the, ahem, kicker: The transfer rate bacteria from shoes to clean tiles was 90% to 99%.

Bacteria found on the footwear included E. coli, a source of urinary tract infections and diarrhea, as well as other bacteria causing pneumonia (Klebsiella pneumonia) and respiratory tract infections (Serratia ficaria).''

 

[KALI]

Love their English stiff upper lip. However, concerned that the guy they've been hanging out with has gone to hospital.

Video from 2 days ago of the couple on the Princess cruise ship docked in Japan:

and an update just posted 8 hours ago:

 

[Inthedetails]

Please don't turn this into a discussion about US politics. Many thanks.

jmo

 

[KALI]

China has always been violators of human rights. It's a communist country. Their jails are filled to the maximum with people who have dared protest their leadership. Lord help these prisoners if the Corona Virus takes off in these prisons.

Some of these videos that I’ve been seeing.... are these not human rights violations? I can’t stop thinking about the people. I feel it is abuse.


MOO.

 

[mickey2942]

Best meme on Facebook ever, people are using sanitary napkins with rubber bands as homemade face masks. Take that price gougers!

 

[gregjrichards]

It was a shock to see an NHS sign about the coronavirus on the door of my chemist in Scotland today. It really brought home the severity and magnitude of this terrible crisis and it’s impact across the world.

Thank you to all of you for your updates.

 

[Amonet]

Exactly.

On another well known News Youtuber I follow, there has been so many comments downplaying it and brushing it off like having the flu, but I dont want to get sick from any of it. The flu makes you so sick you can basically do nothing except take care of yourself until you get better. From headaches, fevers, breathing problems from the thick mucous in the lungs, the chills, sore throat, coughing like a madman, hacking and spitting up all kinds of sticky thick mucuous, etc.

Its all bad and almost makes you want to die.

Several things worry me about the flu. One is the risk that it could take a turn for the worst as I have asthma. Another is the memory of having flu as a child and not even having the strength in my muscles to get to the bathroom unaided...how do you take care of yourself when you're in that state? Okay, more than those things worry me about it, but I am a natural worrywort. In fact, I'm just like Mr Worry, cos if I didn't have anything to worry about, I'd really worry!

 

[otto]

So back to the “hospitals” -

MOO- I suspect China is playing loose - and is or will be using these patients to test various medications/treatment that are currently under development.

So I just want to point out the Nuremberg Code- part of it which reads: “During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.”


- I don’t really think these patients are freely choosing to be confined, or to receive treatment...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199711133372006

I don't think so either. People warehoused in arenas and other large facilities are not regularly monitored and there are no oxygen machines and other health needs, such as curtains between patients.

There iss fear that the virus will mutate and they will all become more ill. If it's a death ward, it's easier to clear out. I wonder how many people will emerge "recovered" from the facilities.

We won't know for another two weeks.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Video from 2 days ago of the couple on the Princess cruise ship docked in Japan:

and an update just posted 8 hours ago:

I hope you will post any future updates on these folks. I’m now invested in their well-being!

 

[KALI]

100% with you Beatrix. Watch what they do... NOT what they say. Is my motto.
No country has ever built two huge hospitals in a weeks time due to worries about a flu like illness.
No country has EVER locked down 50 million people (that they admit to, it's probably higher), in our human history.
This ain't no flu. All my own opinion, of course.

I keep hearing or reading people saying that this is less deadly than the flu. Where is that coming from? I'd heard it was 2% death rate with CV. But today I read that the death rate in Wuhan was actually closer to 4% which is where the majority of cases are. But I'd also heard flu was .10%

My biggest concern is that I've heard that the percentage of people needing "intensive" care is around 25%. Then today I heard the WHO talk on this and they said 15% are in severe shape and 3% critical.

Does anyone have any idea how that compares to the flu? I'm skeptical about our flu stats and how they come up with them since hearing they don't actually count each adult with the flu but basically lump all respiratory illness together as a flu death if the patient dies. But I sure as heck have never seen 18-25% of the people I know need hospitalization for the flu let alone breathing assistance and I believe they also specified ECMO in that talk. That is a crazy high percentage of people being seriously or critically ill.

Also, if it's really no worse than the flu then why are they requiring masses more medical care/hospitals/quarantine camps? I'm sure China deals with the flu in the winter as well.

I'm just not buying the, "It's no different than the flu. But we need to prevent anyone from China coming over here and quarantine every citizen who does manage to come back here." If this many people were actually getting this sick and dying at this rate from the flu then why the heck aren't we closing down borders every winter? The messages are just so mixed. "It's fine. Don't panic. Let the government panic for you."