Could Bush Have Done More

[JBean]

It sure has opened my eyes up more about my responsibility when voting for the Governor. But heck, this whole thing has opened up my eyes about what my local City government is doing, as well. :doh:

oh Amen to that. I am on the bandwagon.

 

[kgeaux]

It sure has opened my eyes up more about my responsibility when voting for the Governor. But heck, this whole thing has opened up my eyes about what my local City government is doing, as well. :doh:

Amen, amen, amen, as my pastor used to say! It's now being reported what we knew all along: city officials deviated from the LEOP. Didn't follow their own rules about when to declare the evacuation or rules pertaining to how to get the people out. Combine that with a governor who deliberately takes steps to keep food and water away from those who had sought refuge in evacuation centers and a governor who feels as though her primary goal in this situation is to resist federal control instead of helping her constituents, well, you've got Louisiana and Katrina. A double, triple tragedy.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Amen, amen, amen, as my pastor used to say! It's now being reported what we knew all along: city officials deviated from the LEOP. Didn't follow their own rules about when to declare the evacuation or rules pertaining to how to get the people out. Combine that with a governor who deliberately takes steps to keep food and water away from those who had sought refuge in evacuation centers and a governor who feels as though her primary goal in this situation is to resist federal control instead of helping her constituents, well, you've got Louisiana and Katrina. A double, triple tragedy.

I have a question for you, since you live there. It was either you, or CP, that's mentioned previously that Blanco's a nice lady, etc. Could you have predicted this? That she would bungle this soooo badly, both in not knowing what the he** was going on, and...the resistance and power plays with the Feds, while saying to the Feds, "I need everything you've got" basically. I just can't fathom a person doing this. I just can't. I guess I wouldn't make a good politician, and I think I'm okay with that, if that's what it takes.

CP - would also like your take on my question as well, if you see this. Thanks.

ETA: Forgot which thread this was on, so it's a little O/T, and I apologize. if you want to answer somewhere else, just let me know where to look! I just appreciate your insight.

 

[kgeaux]

I have a question for you, since you live there. It was either you, or CP, that's mentioned previously that Blanco's a nice lady, etc. Could you have predicted this? That she would bungle this soooo badly, both in not knowing what the he** was going on, and...the resistance and power plays with the Feds, while saying to the Feds, "I need everything you've got" basically. I just can't fathom a person doing this. I just can't. I guess I wouldn't make a good politician, and I think I'm okay with that, if that's what it takes.

CP - would also like your take on my question as well, if you see this. Thanks.

Kathleen Blanco is a nice lady. Very nice. Her family is a wonderful group of people; her grandchildren attend a local school with relatives of mine. I could have predicted that she would need "time to think" because I attended the debates between her and Bobby Jindal. He is a young, exceedingly brilliant young man who is Indian (India) in origin. Questions were asked, and for all of them, Kathleen's answers were slow and wishy-washy. Jindal's answers were quick, accurate and right to the point. It is an often repeated statement in Louisiana that Kathleen's husband is the real governor, and she's just his "front man."

As a point of interest, I will point out that Jindal, the Republican runner, was the overwhelming choice of younger voters who tend to be more liberal in their outlook. Overwhelmingly democratic, and yet they could see that Jindal was the better choice by far.

The power play, I think I would expect that from any Democratic governor at this time. I would think that they would think that Bush was making a political move to try to wrest control away from them. I think it would work the same way if the opposite parties were in these positions, too. It's just a symptom of the deep political division our nation is experiencing.

I never, not in a million years, would ever, ever have believed that Kathleen Blanco would deliberately withhold food and water from evacuees. And yet she did. I am so blown away by this that I cannot even begin to express how horrible this makes me feel.

 

[concernedperson]

Kathleen Blanco is a nice lady. Very nice. Her family is a wonderful group of people; her grandchildren attend a local school with relatives of mine. I could have predicted that she would need "time to think" because I attended the debates between her and Bobby Jindal. He is a young, exceedingly brilliant young man who is Indian (India) in origin. Questions were asked, and for all of them, Kathleen's answers were slow and wishy-washy. Jindal's answers were quick, accurate and right to the point. It is an often repeated statement in Louisiana that Kathleen's husband is the real governor, and she's just his "front man."

As a point of interest, I will point out that Jindal, the Republican runner, was the overwhelming choice of younger voters who tend to be more liberal in their outlook. Overwhelmingly democratic, and yet they could see that Jindal was the better choice by far.

The power play, I think I would expect that from any Democratic governor at this time. I would think that they would think that Bush was making a political move to try to wrest control away from them. I think it would work the same way if the opposite parties were in these positions, too. It's just a symptom of the deep political division our nation is experiencing.

I never, not in a million years, would ever, ever have believed that Kathleen Blanco would deliberately withhold food and water from evacuees. And yet she did. I am so blown away by this that I cannot even begin to express how horrible this makes me feel.

OMG, I was thinking about how to respond and didn't really want to mention Ray. But since you did I have to agree. He has always been behind the scenes pushing the envelope. Several of your LE and politicians have been greatly influenced by him and, in part, owe their positions to his involvement.

She is/was a nice lady with a bunch of kids. Her oldest son was killed in an accident some years ago so she isn't inured to pain. I am in disbelief of her actions too even if someone was pushing her wouldn't you think she would just say....NO,NO,NO, people need water and food and we will get it to them. It is like I am watching someone else, I don't know her at all anymore. What could have happened? Does politics change your core? Or maybe that is her core and I was looking at the persona she wanted me to see!!!

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Thanks! Interesting, indeed

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

OMG, I was thinking about how to respond and didn't really want to mention Ray. But since you did I have to agree. He has always been behind the scenes pushing the envelope. Several of your LE and politicians have been greatly influenced by him and, in part, owe their positions to his involvement.

Thanks, as well, CP! Real quick, who is Ray (I understand her husband), but why does he have so much influence? What's his story? (If you want to PM me, that's fine, as I know this is way off the Bush topic....)

 

[concernedperson]

Thanks, as well, CP! Real quick, who is Ray (I understand her husband), but why does he have so much influence? What's his story? (If you want to PM me, that's fine, as I know this is way off the Bush topic....)

Ray Blanco started off as the Catholic High School football coach.He greatly enhanced their abilities as a football team. He exerted a lot, and I mean a lot of influence on every aspect of their lives. He brought them to the highest level a HS team can go and the town went wild with adulation. Then you have a whole bunch of young men who are almost cult like and grow up with asking his advice on everything. Nothing independent just what Coach says.

Blanco then went on to USL (University of Southwest Louisiana) and the boys followed. He rose to almost every position like a comet.Lots of groups of young people to influence. I imagine he likes to direct more than do.

 

[less0305]

Kathleen Blanco is a nice lady. Very nice. Her family is a wonderful group of people; her grandchildren attend a local school with relatives of mine. I could have predicted that she would need "time to think" because I attended the debates between her and Bobby Jindal. He is a young, exceedingly brilliant young man who is Indian (India) in origin. Questions were asked, and for all of them, Kathleen's answers were slow and wishy-washy. Jindal's answers were quick, accurate and right to the point. It is an often repeated statement in Louisiana that Kathleen's husband is the real governor, and she's just his "front man."

As a point of interest, I will point out that Jindal, the Republican runner, was the overwhelming choice of younger voters who tend to be more liberal in their outlook. Overwhelmingly democratic, and yet they could see that Jindal was the better choice by far.

The power play, I think I would expect that from any Democratic governor at this time. I would think that they would think that Bush was making a political move to try to wrest control away from them. I think it would work the same way if the opposite parties were in these positions, too. It's just a symptom of the deep political division our nation is experiencing.

I never, not in a million years, would ever, ever have believed that Kathleen Blanco would deliberately withhold food and water from evacuees. And yet she did. I am so blown away by this that I cannot even begin to express how horrible this makes me feel.

I want to addess a couple things here - and I don't know how to do those cute little boxes where my comments come between your quotes.... :doh:

But anyway, Bobby Jindal? Haven't we seen him a lot of TV and now he gave an interview to something like the NYTimes regarding his reaction to everything? Is he still an elected official of something there - seems I see him and there's a (R) beside his name and then some type of city or parish name. I'm sorry. We don't have the same type structure you all have - or it isn't called the same. We have precincts - which are inside cities or counties - cities are inside counties - and the counties are inside the state. We don't have anything called parishes. Anyhooo, wasn't his remarks scathing remarks against the federal government in this and not against the Governor?

I also agree that regardless of what governor and where (and particular when the gov and prez are from different party lines) the power control would have happened. I'm sounding like a broken record, but even in drills for terrorism in various states the overriding theme is "the Governor must retain control of the state and should strongly resist being taken over by the Feds."

And my third thing was....I'm not sure Blanco did make all those decisions on her own. I think she was also listening to her senate and congress members - or some of them anyway, who I'm sure were calling her saying, "Do this...Don't do that." And if there's a hubby in the mix, well, that was one other voice in her head. We have had the same thing with some spouses. The person was elected, but the spouse at home told them how to think, speak, and feel. How many times did we hear that Nancy ran the Reagan show and Hillary ran the Clinton show?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Very interesting article, and explained the situation pretty well, IMO. If I am reading it correctly, Bush STILL needs the Governor's approval, or "surrendering control" before forces can come into a State to perform law enforcement duties (versus relief missions). And "decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials would have been required to deploy active-duty forces before law and order had been re-established." It then points out that they could not have gone into NO on Wednesday and Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges.

Well, I'm sure that the administration had very good reasons to have strong feelings that she would be resisting. I would doubt they would have come to that conclusion before having strong dialogue and interactions with her already, where she was showing her resistance and intentions.

And, the interesting quotes from Blanco near the end of the article. "I need everything you have got," but then continues to resist.

So, could Bush have done more? He needed a Governor that was willing to give up certain control before he could really direct forces in there, under that situation, and she was not willing to do so at that time.

Didn't she say she wanted the NO police department and the Louisiana NG to be in command of NO? I can understand that and it still must be the way it is today as
Eddie Compass (NOPD) said just last night that he and the LA NG are the ones in control of all decisions that concern security and police matters. The other agencies are only assisting them, not ruling them and taking over.

I can understand that.. it is their city, their state. The Feds dont have to be in charge of everything to assist even though that is usually what they desire.

IMO

Ocean

 

[tybee204]

Appeals for troops unheeded for days

Blanco, Bush disagreed on authority over forces

By Jan Moller and Robert Travis Scott
Capital Bureau

BATON ROUGE - As it became clear last week that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina required far more help than state and local authorities could provide, Gov. Kathleen Blanco and other state officials began pleading for more help from the federal government.

Blanco administration officials said the governor spoke twice to Bush - once Sunday morning, in the hours before Katrina made landfall, and again Wednesday morning after the storm. In both telephone conversations, according to Blanco and her senior aides, the governor asked Bush for increased federal help.

"I asked him to send me everything he's got," Blanco said of their first conversation,. In their second conversation, Blanco was more specific, saying the state needed 40,000 troops to restore order and complete the search and rescue mission.

But state officials said the governor didn't ask directly for active-duty troops. Bottcher said the governor was prepared to accept any combination of Guards members and regular Army troops, as long as there were enough numbers to calm the city and complete the rescue effort.
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Didn't she say she wanted the NO police department and the Louisiana NG to be in command of NO? I can understand that and it still must be the way it is today as
Eddie Compass (NOPD) said just last night that he and the LA NG are the ones in control of all decisions that concern security and police matters. The other agencies are only assisting them, not ruling them and taking over.

I can understand that.. it is their city, their state. The Feds dont have to be in charge of everything to assist even though that is usually what they desire.

IMO

Ocean

Those are good points, Ocean, IMO. And, from my understanding of how the different levels are supposed to work, the way it is supposed to be. The State retains control of almost everything, unless the Gov decides to relinquish the control. How our government is set up, I guess.

So, could Bush have done more?, if the Gov didn't relinquish the control, which appears to be the case here....

 

[Pepper]

I think we have a "he said, she said" situation.

 

[kgeaux]

Didn't she say she wanted the NO police department and the Louisiana NG to be in command of NO? I can understand that and it still must be the way it is today as
Eddie Compass (NOPD) said just last night that he and the LA NG are the ones in control of all decisions that concern security and police matters. The other agencies are only assisting them, not ruling them and taking over.

I can understand that.. it is their city, their state. The Feds dont have to be in charge of everything to assist even though that is usually what they desire.

IMO

Ocean

Yes. That's it. But they weren't controlling the situation in the beginning. Bush was wanting to "federalize" national guard troops, which would cut through a lot of layers of government and get those troops in there quickly. The downside of that would be that according to the rules of the Insurrection Act, these federalized troops would then have law enforcement abilities/responsibilities within Louisiana. Law enforcement would come along with federalization and could not be left out of the duties of the federalized troops. That is why Blanco resisted and refused and asked for more time. She did not want to relinquish her control.

I understand her position to a point, and that is that when people were being shot, raped, dropping dead from dehydration and heat stroke, and she could not quell the lawlessness, I believe she needed to do whatever was necessary to preserve life.....and she did not.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Billy - I only cut your post to save some space and to also just ask this specific question:

When the Mayor was questioned day before yesterday about the "mandatory" vacations he was sending the police officers on (many of which said they didn't want to leave their duties right now) and that would those officers be better utilized right now while it was still rescue operations - the Mayor said, and I quote, "This is a party city. Get over it!"

Do you have any idea - any clue what he could possible mean by that? What kind of a response what that? It absolutely floored me. I don't understand that mentality. I work for a municipality which went through two natural disasters, with loss of life I might add, and at no time during the immediacy of it would our Mayor have thought to send officers on mandatory 5 day vacations. Yes, it was horrendous. Yes, they need rest and food and sustinence. And yes, they need some peer counseling and maybe actual professional counseling. But I didn't understand what the "party city" part had to do with that.

All I can say is that Mayor Nagin that IMO is an incompetent jackass. His decision to allow looting and demanding that LE not respond with force when it began to escalate pretty much proves that. His swearing out the President on the radio and this rather inappropriate comment just bolster my opinion.
the late Mayor Dutch Morial would NEVER have allowed the looting, as he was a former MP and knew the reprecussions that would have.
A genuinely sane/intelligent plan would have had LE entering the stores, "requisitioning" food, water & medical supplies and taking it back to the Dome and later the Convention Center to be distributed under armed gaurd. And the first time anyone tried to beat their way to the head of the line, they'd get a bullet in the leg. The second attempt would get one between the eyes.
Nagin's political career is over, thank goodness. WHY this was not done is anyone's guess.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I have a question for you, since you live there. It was either you, or CP, that's mentioned previously that Blanco's a nice lady, etc. Could you have predicted this? That she would bungle this soooo badly, both in not knowing what the he** was going on, and...the resistance and power plays with the Feds, while saying to the Feds, "I need everything you've got" basically. I just can't fathom a person doing this. I just can't. I guess I wouldn't make a good politician, and I think I'm okay with that, if that's what it takes.

CP - would also like your take on my question as well, if you see this. Thanks.

ETA: Forgot which thread this was on, so it's a little O/T, and I apologize. if you want to answer somewhere else, just let me know where to look! I just appreciate your insight.

Being nice doesn't mean you can't be incompetent in your job. Often they go hand in hand.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Being nice doesn't mean you can't be incompetent in your job. Often they go hand in hand.

Oh, so true, so true. I just wondered more about the "person" herself....

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Ray Blanco started off as the Catholic High School football coach.He greatly enhanced their abilities as a football team. He exerted a lot, and I mean a lot of influence on every aspect of their lives. He brought them to the highest level a HS team can go and the town went wild with adulation. Then you have a whole bunch of young men who are almost cult like and grow up with asking his advice on everything. Nothing independent just what Coach says.

Blanco then went on to USL (University of Southwest Louisiana) and the boys followed. He rose to almost every position like a comet.Lots of groups of young people to influence. I imagine he likes to direct more than do.

Oh, so THAT'S who her husband it. I wondered who this woman was in order to get elected governor, as I had never heard of her before when I lived in the state.

 

[concernedperson]

Being nice doesn't mean you can't be incompetent in your job. Often they go hand in hand.

Well, that is becoming extremely apparent.The problem is the web these politicians weave. They get a little taste and want the whole pie. Usually the large pie eaters want to maintain their pie for periods of time long after their usefullness is over.

 

[JBean]

All I can say is that Mayor Nagin that IMO is an incompetent jackass. His decision to allow looting and demanding that LE not respond with force when it began to escalate pretty much proves that. His swearing out the President on the radio and this rather inappropriate comment just bolster my opinion.
the late Mayor Dutch Morial would NEVER have allowed the looting, as he was a former MP and knew the reprecussions that would have.
A genuinely sane/intelligent plan would have had LE entering the stores, "requisitioning" food, water & medical supplies and taking it back to the Dome and later the Convention Center to be distributed under armed gaurd. And the first time anyone tried to beat their way to the head of the line, they'd get a bullet in the leg. The second attempt would get one between the eyes.
Nagin's political career is over, thank goodness. WHY this was not done is anyone's guess.

Billy I'm writing you in on the next election. You are impressive.