Could Bush Have Done More

[cynder]

All I can say is that Mayor Nagin that IMO is an incompetent jackass. His decision to allow looting and demanding that LE not respond with force when it began to escalate pretty much proves that. His swearing out the President on the radio and this rather inappropriate comment just bolster my opinion.
the late Mayor Dutch Morial would NEVER have allowed the looting, as he was a former MP and knew the reprecussions that would have.
A genuinely sane/intelligent plan would have had LE entering the stores, "requisitioning" food, water & medical supplies and taking it back to the Dome and later the Convention Center to be distributed under armed gaurd. And the first time anyone tried to beat their way to the head of the line, they'd get a bullet in the leg. The second attempt would get one between the eyes.
Nagin's political career is over, thank goodness. WHY this was not done is anyone's guess.

That would have worked just fine IF LE had
A - Adequate Undamaged Vehicles (Truck and Boats) and Gas For Them
B - A Full Contingent Of 1400 Officer On Duty AND Support From Additional LE (more than half the officers were gone, evacuated, couldn't get to work etc)
C - Adequate Working Satellite Phone System AND Batteries (radios and cell phones did not work - no towers)
D - A Command Center That Wasn't Flooded
E - A Jail That Wasn't Flooded
Lets stop and think logically - not emotionally. This was a city 80% under water, no communications, no electricity (can't do something as simple as pump gas without electricity), no boats and most of their vehicles under water or inaccessible. About half the full force was gone, drowned, unable to get to work etc. They had no working communication, no ability to call back-up, NOTHING. It sounds really good when people say the should have handled the situation different, stopped the looting etc. Yeah, they might have killed a few bad guys - but collateral damage could have easily been mothers with kids (or even some kids). How would we have responded to THAT? And if a few dozen officers got killed by angry mobs, would that have been better? I think it is a miracle that they held the city together at all and NO-ONE GOT KILLED - not one officer and not one citizen (at the hands of an officer).
The real problem here is that it took 48 hours to get the 1st Nat'l Guard Troops to NO and 4 days to get a real "force" in place with essential communication and vehicles.
WHY? Because the closest (and best) vehicles, troops, and satellite communcation systems were IN IRAQ.
here's what the Nat'l Guard Leaders themselves are saying - the first skelton forces took 2 days to arrive - and their equipment even LONGER
" Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said that "arguably" a day at most of response time was lost due to the absence of the Mississippi National Guard's 155th Infantry Brigade and Louisiana's 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.
Blum said that to replace those units' command and control equipment, he dispatched personnel from Guard division headquarters from Kansas and Minnesota shortly after the storm struck."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2005/sep/09/090904047.html
I realize NO is not a perfect city with a perfect police force, but for heaven's sake, pie-in-the-sky "martial law" scenarios of managing a hot,angry, hungry, out of control mob of 30k at the convention center and 35-40k at the Superdome plus roving gangs of armed criminals and jonesing drug addicts with a few hundred underequipped officers are just empty rhetoric.
Ok, there was looting and the cops LET it happen - reality is all of the items in those flooded stores would have been declared a total loss on insurance - looting or no looting and would have been dumped in the trash anyway - why NOT let people take them if it means no-one gets killed? Sometimes law and order has to be loosly applied to save lives - and that is the goal isn't it?

 

[less0305]

That would have worked just fine IF LE had
A - Adequate Undamaged Vehicles (Truck and Boats) and Gas For Them
B - A Full Contingent Of 1400 Officer On Duty AND Support From Additional LE (more than half the officers were gone, evacuated, couldn't get to work etc)
C - Adequate Working Satellite Phone System AND Batteries (radios and cell phones did not work - no towers)
D - A Command Center That Wasn't Flooded
E - A Jail That Wasn't Flooded
Lets stop and think logically - not emotionally. This was a city 80% under water, no communications, no electricity (can't do something as simple as pump gas without electricity), no boats and most of their vehicles under water or inaccessible. About half the full force was gone, drowned, unable to get to work etc. They had no working communication, no ability to call back-up, NOTHING. It sounds really good when people say the should have handled the situation different, stopped the looting etc. Yeah, they might have killed a few bad guys - but collateral damage could have easily been mothers with kids (or even some kids). How would we have responded to THAT? And if a few dozen officers got killed by angry mobs, would that have been better? I think it is a miracle that they held the city together at all and NO-ONE GOT KILLED - not one officer and not one citizen (at the hands of an officer).
The real problem here is that it took 48 hours to get the 1st Nat'l Guard Troops to NO and 4 days to get a real "force" in place with essential communication and vehicles.
WHY? Because the closest (and best) vehicles, troops, and satellite communcation systems were IN IRAQ.
here's what the Nat'l Guard Leaders themselves are saying - the first skelton forces took 2 days to arrive - and their equipment even LONGER
" Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said that "arguably" a day at most of response time was lost due to the absence of the Mississippi National Guard's 155th Infantry Brigade and Louisiana's 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.
Blum said that to replace those units' command and control equipment, he dispatched personnel from Guard division headquarters from Kansas and Minnesota shortly after the storm struck."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2005/sep/09/090904047.html
I realize NO is not a perfect city with a perfect police force, but for heaven's sake, pie-in-the-sky "martial law" scenarios of managing a hot,angry, hungry, out of control mob of 30k at the convention center and 35-40k at the Superdome plus roving gangs of armed criminals and jonesing drug addicts with a few hundred underequipped officers are just empty rhetoric.
Ok, there was looting and the cops LET it happen - reality is all of the items in those flooded stores would have been declared a total loss on insurance - looting or no looting and would have been dumped in the trash anyway - why NOT let people take them if it means no-one gets killed? Sometimes law and order has to be loosly applied to save lives - and that is the goal isn't it?

And all that sounds like there was no CITY plan for a flood. Why would you not put some of your vehicles on higher ground? Why would you not have put your public works vehicles on higher ground - to be used to carry supplies to those places? Why would you not have an adequate supply of batteries for your walkies and radios charged and ready to go? Why would you not have allowed the federalization of the troops so that there wasn't that day of political wrangling going on to delay that? Why would you not have supplies to feed people at the places you deem shelters and urge people to go?

I've lived on a military base where there were tornado warnings daily - DAILY - and every single warning issued by the base we had to leave our home and drive to the "safe" building for our neighborhood. Now, in 18 months not a single tornado touched down....but we knew it could - and so did the military - so staying at home was NOT an option - you went by order of the military. It's called safeguarding against something you know has a good chance to happen. N.O. is below sea level. Flooding has a good chance of happening, so why was there no CITY plan for supplies at the locations you tell people to go to? Why do you not pull your city fleet to higher ground? Why did you not have extra radios, batteries, generators charged and ready to go? This I just don't understand. Even if you take the hurricane out of the picture and just looked at how unprepared the city was for a flood - it's absolutely amazing. Just suppose something happened and there was a breach in the levee without the hurricane even happening...they were unprepared for flooding. And they live there with those levees every single day and have for 75 years. With just a levee break there would be no warning. Now put the hurricane back in....they had 5 days warning that a hurricane was coming and that increased the likelihood of a breach in the levees and flooding. They weren't prepared for the least case scenario, much less the worst case scenario.

 

[Liz]

And all that sounds like there was no CITY plan for a flood.

Well said, in one sentence, less!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

That would have worked just fine IF LE had
A - Adequate Undamaged Vehicles (Truck and Boats) and Gas For Them
B - A Full Contingent Of 1400 Officer On Duty AND Support From Additional LE (more than half the officers were gone, evacuated, couldn't get to work etc)
C - Adequate Working Satellite Phone System AND Batteries (radios and cell phones did not work - no towers)
D - A Command Center That Wasn't Flooded
E - A Jail That Wasn't Flooded
Lets stop and think logically - not emotionally. This was a city 80% under water, no communications, no electricity (can't do something as simple as pump gas without electricity), no boats and most of their vehicles under water or inaccessible. About half the full force was gone, drowned, unable to get to work etc. They had no working communication, no ability to call back-up, NOTHING. It sounds really good when people say the should have handled the situation different, stopped the looting etc. Yeah, they might have killed a few bad guys - but collateral damage could have easily been mothers with kids (or even some kids). How would we have responded to THAT? And if a few dozen officers got killed by angry mobs, would that have been better? I think it is a miracle that they held the city together at all and NO-ONE GOT KILLED - not one officer and not one citizen (at the hands of an officer).
The real problem here is that it took 48 hours to get the 1st Nat'l Guard Troops to NO and 4 days to get a real "force" in place with essential communication and vehicles.
WHY? Because the closest (and best) vehicles, troops, and satellite communcation systems were IN IRAQ.
here's what the Nat'l Guard Leaders themselves are saying - the first skelton forces took 2 days to arrive - and their equipment even LONGER
" Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said that "arguably" a day at most of response time was lost due to the absence of the Mississippi National Guard's 155th Infantry Brigade and Louisiana's 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.
Blum said that to replace those units' command and control equipment, he dispatched personnel from Guard division headquarters from Kansas and Minnesota shortly after the storm struck."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2005/sep/09/090904047.html
I realize NO is not a perfect city with a perfect police force, but for heaven's sake, pie-in-the-sky "martial law" scenarios of managing a hot,angry, hungry, out of control mob of 30k at the convention center and 35-40k at the Superdome plus roving gangs of armed criminals and jonesing drug addicts with a few hundred underequipped officers are just empty rhetoric.
Ok, there was looting and the cops LET it happen - reality is all of the items in those flooded stores would have been declared a total loss on insurance - looting or no looting and would have been dumped in the trash anyway - why NOT let people take them if it means no-one gets killed? Sometimes law and order has to be loosly applied to save lives - and that is the goal isn't it?

It was up to the city and its leaders to prepare and drill its LE and other branches of local support on civil emergency response. Which does not seem to have been done, given the utter chaos that closely followed the storm. It woudl seem all the crowd management training they had was regards Mardi Gras and Jazz Fest. It boggles the mind that a city built under sea level in a amn BOWL--and which has flooded several times within livng memory--would not train its LE and other emergency response personnel and drill them for such a catastrophe. But they didn't.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

And all that sounds like there was no CITY plan for a flood. Why would you not put some of your vehicles on higher ground? Why would you not have put your public works vehicles on higher ground - to be used to carry supplies to those places? Why would you not have an adequate supply of batteries for your walkies and radios charged and ready to go? Why would you not have allowed the federalization of the troops so that there wasn't that day of political wrangling going on to delay that? Why would you not have supplies to feed people at the places you deem shelters and urge people to go?

I've lived on a military base where there were tornado warnings daily - DAILY - and every single warning issued by the base we had to leave our home and drive to the "safe" building for our neighborhood. Now, in 18 months not a single tornado touched down....but we knew it could - and so did the military - so staying at home was NOT an option - you went by order of the military. It's called safeguarding against something you know has a good chance to happen. N.O. is below sea level. Flooding has a good chance of happening, so why was there no CITY plan for supplies at the locations you tell people to go to? Why do you not pull your city fleet to higher ground? Why did you not have extra radios, batteries, generators charged and ready to go? This I just don't understand. Even if you take the hurricane out of the picture and just looked at how unprepared the city was for a flood - it's absolutely amazing. Just suppose something happened and there was a breach in the levee without the hurricane even happening...they were unprepared for flooding. And they live there with those levees every single day and have for 75 years. With just a levee break there would be no warning. Now put the hurricane back in....they had 5 days warning that a hurricane was coming and that increased the likelihood of a breach in the levees and flooding. They weren't prepared for the least case scenario, much less the worst case scenario.

That pretty much sums it up. Why was the city so woefully prepared for ANYTHING going wrong?

 

[Liz]

I couldn't believe when I heard they (PD) had (only) three boats --- two of which didn't run!

 

[concernedperson]

Don't rely on Louisiana to bail you out unless you are part and parcel to the machine.This is the most corrupt state ever and don't let them influence you with the free school books that have been available for decades.They actually believe this will redeem them.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Those are good points, Ocean, IMO. And, from my understanding of how the different levels are supposed to work, the way it is supposed to be. The State retains control of almost everything, unless the Gov decides to relinquish the control. How our government is set up, I guess.

So, could Bush have done more?, if the Gov didn't relinquish the control, which appears to be the case here....

In my mind DD, yes he could have. She asked for "assistance"..... fighting over who had control was just wasting time. I mean her state still maintains control to this day and they are NOW covered up with assistance. So imo, this assistance should/could have been done quickly due to the severe conditions there. They are able to do it now but they weren't able to assist then?

Even in Mississippi Trent Lott after trying to give the president and federal government glowing compliments the first week finally had to expose the truth about FEMA. He told all of the volunteers and other organizations that had waited and waited to just bypass FEMA. How sad is that?

I had three friends that went to Biloxi, Mississippi this past weekend to give assistance. There were survivors there that had seen no one,many were sick and not even a band-aid in sight, not the Red Cross, FEMA....... So who is Bush going to blame that on? Haley Barber? I dont think so, HB had his ducks in a row, the feds just followed up at a snail's pace. So it wasnt just NOLA but MS too that suffered delayed reactions.

So imo, the government for some unknown reason just sat there, twiddling their thumbs while people died everyday they waited.

This is one of the reasons that State LE hates to call the FBI in as the FBI wants to take over full control and it isn't even their case. They seem to have a ego thing about "assisting", they are all about being in charge. I can understand why the Governor refused to let that happen.

I cannot understand why it took the feds so long to get MS or LA.......arent we a country that boast that our military is ready at a moments notice?

While some here say that NO is mad with the mayor and the Governor there are many from LA that blame the man right at the very top of our government. I have never seen so many Republicans jumping ship as I have seen in the past 2 weeks. This isnt going to go away.

IMO

Ocean

 

[concernedperson]

I agee. Ocean, it isn't going to away.

 

[less0305]

I hope it doesn't go away until the head of the STATE Homeland Security is in the unemployment line beside Brown (if most people get their wish and he's sent there). The STATE Homeland Security guy was just as inept as anyone else in this disaster - he sent away the very sustinance that would have kept some people alive and in better condition - the Red Cross.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

In my mind DD, yes he could have. She asked for "assistance"..... fighting over who had control was just wasting time. I mean her state still maintains control to this day and they are NOW covered up with assistance. So imo, this assistance should/could have been done quickly due to the severe conditions there. They are able to do it now but they weren't able to assist then?

This isnt going to go away.

IMO

Ocean

I enjoy reading your posts, BTW.

I should have made it more clear in my original question at the bottom of my last post, "Could Bush have done more?", that I was just repeating the thread title. It was not my personal opinion or not, and not meant in defense of Bush whatsoever at this point. (That's to the posting world in general, not you, Ocean, FYI.) I re-read what I posted, and I didn't like how I worded it.

I, too, have real concerns about any delays that came from Bush, and the Feds. I'm still not clear on all the legal delays, etc. and power plays on either side. And as you said in your post, it's not going away. I agree, and it shouldn't go away. And FEMA certainly needs an overhaul (realizing that word is an understatement). The Brown appointment, and his apparent lack of qualifications is just disgusting.

I understand your comparison of local LE and FBI intervention, all too well. That is a good analogy.

 

[cynder]

And all that sounds like there was no CITY plan for a flood. Why would you not put some of your vehicles on higher ground? Why would you not have put your public works vehicles on higher ground - to be used to carry supplies to those places? Why would you not have an adequate supply of batteries for your walkies and radios charged and ready to go? Why would you not have allowed the federalization of the troops so that there wasn't that day of political wrangling going on to delay that? Why would you not have supplies to feed people at the places you deem shelters and urge people to go?

I've lived on a military base where there were tornado warnings daily - DAILY - and every single warning issued by the base we had to leave our home and drive to the "safe" building for our neighborhood. Now, in 18 months not a single tornado touched down....but we knew it could - and so did the military - so staying at home was NOT an option - you went by order of the military. It's called safeguarding against something you know has a good chance to happen. N.O. is below sea level. Flooding has a good chance of happening, so why was there no CITY plan for supplies at the locations you tell people to go to? Why do you not pull your city fleet to higher ground? Why did you not have extra radios, batteries, generators charged and ready to go? This I just don't understand. Even if you take the hurricane out of the picture and just looked at how unprepared the city was for a flood - it's absolutely amazing. Just suppose something happened and there was a breach in the levee without the hurricane even happening...they were unprepared for flooding. And they live there with those levees every single day and have for 75 years. With just a levee break there would be no warning. Now put the hurricane back in....they had 5 days warning that a hurricane was coming and that increased the likelihood of a breach in the levees and flooding. They weren't prepared for the least case scenario, much less the worst case scenario.

The way I understand it was that they had supplies, gasoline, food, water, batteries, for 2 - 3 days, not 5 or 6. There was 2 days of food water etc at the Superdome - the people went 5 days+ AND more and more people kept showing up.The convention center was never suposed to be a shelter - people just made it one and there were no supplies there at all. LA had asked for an emergency communication system from FEMA pre-hurricane - it finally arrived 6 days later. And once huge numbers of armed men began roaming the streets the reduced force just felt it was too dangerous to confront them - some even holed up in a station house for over a day because they had limited fuel and ammunition. FEMA said prepare for at worst, 72 hours - and in most cases order was just beginning to be restored a WEEK later, with 15K armed Nat'l Guard Troops (vs the 800-1000 police officers of NO). There WAS a plan but with 80% of the city flooded and NO FEMA help for almost a week even the best plan would have failed - it wasn't designed for a week in almost impossible conditions. Think about it - we know there were at least 70-80k people in NO in the worst possible conditions - some were addicts, some criminals and some just angry and desperate .....with GUNS - and the city was to be secured and these people managed by a police force that at full staffing was 1400 officers. I don't care how well you plan or what you do, this was going to go bad after day two with no working toilets, and no electricity.
And as far as the Red Cross is concerned - there was NO WAY the Red Cross was going to the Superdome (much less the convention center) until the Nat'l Guard had restored some semblance of order and control. The crowd would have gone nuts and torn those poor Red Cross folks up into little pieces within minutes of their arrival - like putting a few lambs into a den of 35k hungry, thirsty lions. They have made a big issue about being "refused" by LA officials BUT even if LA had said go, the Red Cross would have refused without Nat'l Guard or Police protection. It would have been suicide.
NO could have been better prepared, but their shortcomings were magnified hugely by the delay in getting FEMA and the Nat'l Guard rolling. We would not have accepeted this type of response in NY and we shouldn't accept it in New Orleans.

 

[dani]

Sorry if this has already been posted. (I am too sleepy to read all 250+ posts to find out. Sorry. ) But this is a good read pertaining to this thread:

"Should Kathleen Blanco Go?"
http://www.jasoncoleman.com/BlogArchives/2005/09/blancos_insurre.html

Posse Comitatus Act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

I do have two comments though.

1. I'm sick of listening to all the politics being played while people and animals are suffering, dying, and their lives being changed forever. I think there ought to be a rule that when someone chooses to blame the President, the FEMA Director, the Red Cross, or Ronald McDonald they should at least tell us what they would have done to have made this a perfect situation. I'm not talking about the posters here at WS. I'm speaking of the politicians, the Hollywood crowd, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all the political activists. For criminey sakes people! It was a catagory 4 hurricane that hit a city that's 9 feet below sea level, plus the levees broke!!! It's a catastrophe, not a time to play politics! Do that on your own dime!!!

2. I agree with whomever it was that said they should not give federal assistance to the people that flat out REFUSED to leave. To hell with the looters! Material goods can be replaced. Save lives and your health. (I'm sure I'll get bashed for that, but that's the way I feel.)

dani

 

[TexMex]

The way I understand it was that they had supplies, gasoline, food, water, batteries, for 2 - 3 days, not 5 or 6. There was 2 days of food water etc at the Superdome - the people went 5 days+ AND more and more people kept showing up.

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082805catastrophe.f4dd3f.html


Associated Press



In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.


Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.


The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.


Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.


"There doesn't seem to be any relief in sight," Blanco said.


She said Interstate 10, which was converted Saturday so that all lanes headed one-way out of town, was total gridlock.


"We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Nagin said.


The storm surge most likely could topple the city's levee system, which protect it from surrounding waters of Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi River and marshes, the mayor said. The bowl-shaped city must pump water out during normal times, and the hurricane threatened pump power.


Previous hurricanes evacuations in New Orleans were always voluntary, because so many people don't have the means of getting out. Some are too poor and there is always a French Quarter full of tourists who get caught.


"This is a once in a lifetime event," the mayor said. "The city of New Orleans has never seen a hurricane of this magnitude hit it directly," the mayor said.


He told those who had to move to the Superdome to come with enough food for several days and with blankets. He said it will be a very uncomfortable place and encouraged everybody who could to get out.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

The way I understand it was that they had supplies, gasoline, food, water, batteries, for 2 - 3 days, not 5 or 6. There was 2 days of food water etc at the Superdome - the people went 5 days+ AND more and more people kept showing up.The convention center was never suposed to be a shelter - people just made it one and there were no supplies there at all. LA had asked for an emergency communication system from FEMA pre-hurricane - it finally arrived 6 days later. And once huge numbers of armed men began roaming the streets the reduced force just felt it was too dangerous to confront them - some even holed up in a station house for over a day because they had limited fuel and ammunition. FEMA said prepare for at worst, 72 hours - and in most cases order was just beginning to be restored a WEEK later, with 15K armed Nat'l Guard Troops (vs the 800-1000 police officers of NO). There WAS a plan but with 80% of the city flooded and NO FEMA help for almost a week even the best plan would have failed - it wasn't designed for a week in almost impossible conditions. Think about it - we know there were at least 70-80k people in NO in the worst possible conditions - some were addicts, some criminals and some just angry and desperate .....with GUNS - and the city was to be secured and these people managed by a police force that at full staffing was 1400 officers. I don't care how well you plan or what you do, this was going to go bad after day two with no working toilets, and no electricity.
And as far as the Red Cross is concerned - there was NO WAY the Red Cross was going to the Superdome (much less the convention center) until the Nat'l Guard had restored some semblance of order and control. The crowd would have gone nuts and torn those poor Red Cross folks up into little pieces within minutes of their arrival - like putting a few lambs into a den of 35k hungry, thirsty lions. They have made a big issue about being "refused" by LA officials BUT even if LA had said go, the Red Cross would have refused without Nat'l Guard or Police protection. It would have been suicide.
NO could have been better prepared, but their shortcomings were magnified hugely by the delay in getting FEMA and the Nat'l Guard rolling. We would not have accepeted this type of response in NY and we shouldn't accept it in New Orleans.

The convention center thing kind of baffled me. Why were leaders taking heat for the fact that people went in droves to a place that wasn't designated as a shelter, then expected to be tended to there?
And what the hell--people were crapping in the kitchen! At what point do people realize they're stranded and stop urinating and defecating where they're eating and sleeping? The Mississippi River is barely a 100 yards from the Convention Center. They could have used it, or the grounds directly next to the levee as a latrine. The mutilated bodies found in the debris there is another question entirely.
I guess my summers spent at Girl Scout camp getting my Survival badges have prepared me a lot better for existing without sewage service and electricity than I thought.

 

[heavenlydaze]

I’ve had enough of people trying to instigate unrest to promote their own political agenda.
This thread is pre-mature, and any attempts here to enlist negative feedback toward ANY political party in regards to their response concerning this disaster is diabolical. This serves nobody. Noone. (or is it 'No-One'?) Any way you care to spell it, it’s still Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

This thread belongs in the PP. Not here. Not yet.

The Big Question:
“So...when IS a GOOD time?”
Answer:
Well...since this is Websleuths, how about AFTER it’s proven a crime has been committed? I’m sure there’s enough blame going around here for BOTH Major parties, the Independent Parties, and anyone else who belongs to any OTHER political party who may have done SOMETHING wrong during the Katrina events.

Trust me...it will ALL come out. It always does, but trying to drum up support for you’re OWN political beliefs will fall short here. this is not the time or the place.

 

[less0305]

The convention center thing kind of baffled me. Why were leaders taking heat for the fact that people went in droves to a place that wasn't designated as a shelter, then expected to be tended to there?
And what the hell--people were crapping in the kitchen! At what point do people realize they're stranded and stop urinating and defecating where they're eating and sleeping? The Mississippi River is barely a 100 yards from the Convention Center. They could have used it, or the grounds directly next to the levee as a latrine. The mutilated bodies found in the debris there is another question entirely.
I guess my summers spent at Girl Scout camp getting my Survival badges have prepared me a lot better for existing without sewage service and electricity than I thought.

BillyGG, wasn't the Convention Center called something else also? Because I know I heard the reporters refer to it as something else, and then they would correct themselves and say ConventionCenter. I'm wondering when Brown stated he didn't know about the people at the convention center if he was confused by what they were calling it - because I know for a time I was too. I heard it referred to something else besides "convention center"?

 

[tybee204]

Or shall I assume that he, Laura, and the twins were supposed to dash down to Nawlins and stock the evacuation shelters with bottled water and MREs?

You mean like he did in Florida?

President George W. Bush (right) and his brother Gov. Jeb Bush (left) hand out water and ice to motorists in a drive-thru relief operation set up by the American Red Cross at Longwood Stadium in Fort Pierce Sept. 8. The coastal city was hit hard when Hurricane Frances tore through Sept. 5. Thousands are still without power in Florida.
FORT PIERCE (FBW)-President George W. Bush and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush rolled up their sleeves to stand side-by-side handing out bags of ice and words of hope Sept. 8 to residents of Fort Pierce. The coastal city, about 120 miles north of Miami is one of the areas hit hardest by Hurricane Frances-the huge storm which hit the east coast of Florida in the early morning Sept. 5 and traipsed across the state, creating wide-spread power outages and dumping water from east to west and then across the gulf to the Panhandle.




LOL Sorry just couldnt resist

 

[less0305]

And as far as the Red Cross is concerned - there was NO WAY the Red Cross was going to the Superdome (much less the convention center) until the Nat'l Guard had restored some semblance of order and control. The crowd would have gone nuts and torn those poor Red Cross folks up into little pieces within minutes of their arrival - like putting a few lambs into a den of 35k hungry, thirsty lions. They have made a big issue about being "refused" by LA officials BUT even if LA had said go, the Red Cross would have refused without Nat'l Guard or Police protection. It would have been suicide.
NO could have been better prepared, but their shortcomings were magnified hugely by the delay in getting FEMA and the Nat'l Guard rolling. We would not have accepeted this type of response in NY and we shouldn't accept it in New Orleans.

Red Cross was ready to go in on day one - before all the "thirsty lions." Had the Red Cross gone in just maybe with a little food, water and supplies, things would have been calmer at the Dome. They were held out. Therefore, things got decidedly worse in the days to come.

 

[less0305]

You mean like he did in Florida?


President George W. Bush (right) and his brother Gov. Jeb Bush (left) hand out water and ice to motorists in a drive-thru relief operation set up by the American Red Cross at Longwood Stadium in Fort Pierce Sept. 8. The coastal city was hit hard when Hurricane Frances tore through Sept. 5. Thousands are still without power in Florida.
FORT PIERCE (FBW)-President George W. Bush and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush rolled up their sleeves to stand side-by-side handing out bags of ice and words of hope Sept. 8 to residents of Fort Pierce. The coastal city, about 120 miles north of Miami is one of the areas hit hardest by Hurricane Frances-the huge storm which hit the east coast of Florida in the early morning Sept. 5 and traipsed across the state, creating wide-spread power outages and dumping water from east to west and then across the gulf to the Panhandle.




LOL Sorry just couldnt resist

Can we agree that there was no unrest in Florida like there was in New Orleans? Security for the President in N.O. would have been a nightmare. I'm sure it was hard enough in Florida - but N.O. where they were shooting at rescuers it seems to me it was prudent for the President not to go there.