Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #6

[CrankyPants]

I'll have to contradict you on this one. The patient ALWAYS is involved in the call to set up the appointment time. The specialist is contacted by the primary care physician's office to make arrangements for the transfer of records, but the PATIENT OR PARENT must make the contact to set up the appointment time. The office staff of the primary care physician doesn't know when the patient will be available. Sometimes they will call while the patient is standing in their office and hand the phone to them to set it up, but the patient/parent must verbally agree to the time when the appointment is made.
Sorry...not being disagreeable, but I now WORK at a primary care physician's office and I am quite familiar with the rules and procedures of how this is arranged.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. I have been undergoing treatment for cancer for the last 3 1/2 years and......get this: I have NEVER been asked if I am available for an appointment. The receptionists hand me an appointment card and that's that. They expect me to adjust my schedule, not the other way around. This has been at least 6 separate facilities.


That being said, repeatedly projecting one's own experiences or "how things work" in one's own locality is unhelpful here. For instance, the school attendance policies that applied to Haleigh have nothing to do with where your kids/grandkids/friends/neighbors went to school and that localities policies.

I also have worked for a physician and I'm willing to bet that our office was run differently than the office where you are employed.

 

[Busylady]

What?? The appointment was for JR that was missed the day of December 27th not Haleigh. The court date was not even determined until December 12th based on a motion for a rehearing that Crystal requested. I know maybe RC has an in with the DR and it was a huge conspiracy and the Drs office coordinated with the courts to make sure the appointment was the same day, what I can't figure out is how the Drs office, the court, and RC all worked together and made Crystal decide not to bring JR back early so she could take him to the Dr herself or RC could take him to the Dr. GMAB

The time and date for the appointment for Haleigh was a set-up

The court told RC, not Crystal to take her in for an eval before the next court date. What does RC do? He schedules for same day as court date. When he arrives and is asked where the eval is, he blames it on Crystal!. This man doesn't know the meaning of the word respsonsibility! He has and always will never accept it and will blame others for any wrong. That is his personality and his ethical code.

Not a far reach to say the same behavior presented itself when he filed and gave the wrong address.

 

[raeann]

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. I have been undergoing treatment for cancer for the last 3 1/2 years and......get this: I have NEVER been asked if I am available for an appointment. The receptionists hand me an appointment card and that's that. They expect me to adjust my schedule, not the other way around. This has been at least 6 separate facilities.


That being said, repeatedly projecting one's own experiences or "how things work" in one's own locality is unhelpful here. For instance, the school attendance policies that applied to Haleigh have nothing to do with where your kids/grandkids/friends/neighbors went to school and that localities policies.

I also have worked for a physician and I'm willing to bet that our office was run differently than the office where you are employed.

I am so sorry you have had to deal with that....the patient should ALWAYS be the priority and their convenience of the utmost importance.

That being said, I am only trying to help posters to understand that different places deal with these issues in different ways. None of us can know exactly how things were handled unless we were there when the appointments were made or when the school was not called. You are right, though, apparently both the schools and the physician's offices where I live must go to exceptional effort to be considerate. I guess I should express my appreciation to them next chance that I get to do so!

It was very helpful for awhile when we had numerous posters here who had children at the same school as Haleigh's and who lived in her area. Their information was much more applicable to learning what we wanted to know. But over time, nearly all of them have left here because of the way they were treated. They offered their information from first hand experience and were rudely treated because they could not provide "links" to justify their own daily experiences.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

What?? The appointment was for JR that was missed the day of December 27th not Haleigh. The court date was not even determined until December 12th based on a motion for a rehearing that Crystal requested. I know maybe RC has an in with the DR and it was a huge conspiracy and the Drs office coordinated with the courts to make sure the appointment was the same day, what I can't figure out is how the Drs office, the court, and RC all worked together and made Crystal decide not to bring JR back early so she could take him to the Dr herself or RC could take him to the Dr. GMAB

I think it helps to know the basic facts if you are going to argue a point, doesn't it?

I am hoping some of Crystal's supporters can come up with what Crystal was supposed to be doing during the time the children were with Ronald initially. I would like to know more about her during that period of time and have some perspective on how it relates with her behavior after Ronald gained custody.

Was she out partying every night? How many bfs did she have during that time? How many bfs has she had total? Were they allowed around the children? Was she looking for a job or was she working? Who was providing for the children before she allowed Ronald to take them to Texas?

 

[Busylady]

As far as the missed days at school. Haleigh has Turners Syndrome she is bound to miss some school because of that. In November she has the fall and then ecoli which accounts for most of the days missed in November. There is a scan of a drs note excusing her for 3 days in November yet the school record only shows two of those days as excused and one as unexcused. We have no way of knowing if the child is marked unexcused and then when a note is presented the record is suppose to be changed to excused and sometimes it just did not get done.

 

[snookie]

Maybe you missed me saying that there is NO EXCUSE for missing scheduled doctor appointments for a child. There were too many people who could have taken the children if Crystal was not available for whatever the reason so it really doesn't matter what her excuses were for the neglect. Wanting to stay in bed was the one she came up with...not anyone else.

ETA: We have already been through all of the school absence issues. It was covered a very long time ago and hashed out, imo. It was only brought up here because the issue of Crystal neglecting to take the child to the doctor came up because of the court hearing.

When something comes up about Crystal's neglect, it has become standard to bring up something that sounds bad about Ronald. When school absences are the best anyone can do to say he is unfit...well...it really doesn't make much of a case when DCF evidently did not classify it as neglect or abuse on his part.

Just as it was wrong for Crystal to not get the kids to the doctor, it was wrong of Ronald to not take Haleigh to the doctor those times she was ill enough to miss school.

IMO a responsible custodial parent values an education for their children, and also understands that rules need to be followed. These days, kindergarten is about like first grade was to us. They are much more advanced now, and it's really important that the child not get behind.


My heart goes out to Haleigh. I fear she never had a chance. :beats:

 

[nomoresorrow]

Haleigh was not being protected like she should have been. Can anyone imagine how Crystal feels? A teenager was given the rights to her children for their care and protection. I know that many here would have done exactly what she has done and fight to get Butterbean...to protect him.

I hear what your saying Whisperer, and here comes the "but", BUT if you stand back and look at it without emotion - and I know it's hard to - you have to take it for what it is - when it was - :crazy: good grief, does that make any sense - let me explain my take;

1. In order to modify child custody arrangments, there must be a significant change in circumstances . . .
2. The court has to ask: What is the significant change(s) in circumstances?
Answer by petitioner: Safety of younger minor child based on the disappearance of the other minor child while in the custody of parent with primary custody.
3. The court must ask: What are the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of the other minor child?
Here's the issue(s) that I see - Answer by petitioner: I don't know with any certainty what the circumstances surrounding the disappearance are; He said/she said (rumor round town) that they were left home alone while the caretaker - children's father's teenage gf - went out partying . . .
4. The court must ask: Do you have proof of this?
Here's the issue(s) again as I see it - Answer by petitioner: Yes, I have (hypothetical) 3 individuals that claim they were with her/saw her . . . Ok think about that for a moment, all three potential witnesses have serious issues that outweigh any credibility that may have and secondly by using these witnesses risks placing herself (Crystal) in the same "category" as them - Not the type of people you want to align yourself with when trying to establish a safe/better environment for your child. . . additionally LE isn't going to come to Crystal's aid here as they have an active investigation going on with NO suspects officially named yet - so essentially you have a child that has disappeared from the primary care parent's home, which at this time cannot be attributed to something he (or Misty) did or didn't do, therefore to remove Jr. for that reason at this time would be the equivilent of punishing a parent who is just as much a victim in the abduction of their child as the other parent (Crystal) - at least for now, unless & until that is proven otherwise.
5. Abuse allegations; Timing issue - Problem from the get-go here is the that the alleged account(s) took place (or were taking place) long before HaLeigh's disappearance - the court must ask: Why didn't CS petition the court at the time that the alleged abuse occurred/was occurring? Did the petitioner make a report to DCF? What was the outcome . . .result of investigation, if any? The court has to rely on DCF findings and in cases such as this, involving custody a dispute, even more so.
Courts decision on the matter will be based upon DCF findings;
DCF findings = No substantiated abuse

Obviously if LE's investigation into HaLeigh's disappearance at some point finds that Ron and/or Misty are involved - whole other ballgame . . .

This is only my opinion of how an objective court would view the current situation - it doesn't reflect what I suspect or what I wish could/would happen.

JMO

 

[raeann]

As far as the missed days at school. Haleigh has Turners Syndrome she is bound to miss some school because of that. In November she has the fall and then ecoli which accounts for most of the days missed in November. There is a scan of a drs note excusing her for 3 days in November yet the school record only shows two of those days as excused and one as unexcused. We have no way of knowing if the child is marked unexcused and then when a note is presented the record is suppose to be changed to excused and sometimes it just did not get done.

All true, but we would be way out of line to accuse the school of this with absolutely NO evidence. Ron never said nor in any way implied that they were making mistakes, he said she could not miss any more school, so that is what matters here. He admitted she had missed too much--why she missed doesn't really matter now. I doubt sincerely that the school would venture to send out a notice about excessive absences unless they were quite sure that their records were completely accurate.
I personally feel that the school district has behaved with the utmost discretion in this case. No one has spoken out publicly about anything on this case---not a principal, a teacher, a school nurse, not even a classmate of Haleigh's or another parent of a student in her class. I feel that they have all done this to protect Haleigh and the privacy of her family at this time. They should be commended, not accused of wrongdoing in their record keeping.

 

[snookie]

As far as the missed days at school. Haleigh has Turners Syndrome she is bound to miss some school because of that. In November she has the fall and then ecoli which accounts for most of the days missed in November. There is a scan of a drs note excusing her for 3 days in November yet the school record only shows two of those days as excused and one as unexcused. We have no way of knowing if the child is marked unexcused and then when a note is presented the record is suppose to be changed to excused and sometimes it just did not get done.

Busy, I am not trying to be snarky.... I am genuinely curious. Are you implying that Haleigh's unexcused absences were due to the school office staff not properly processing the doctor's excuses?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Just as it was wrong for Crystal to not get the kids to the doctor, it was wrong of Ronald to not take Haleigh to the doctor those times she was ill enough to miss school.

IMO a responsible custodial parent values an education for their children, and also understands that rules need to be followed. These days, kindergarten is about like first grade was to us. They are much more advanced now, and it's really important that the child not get behind.


My heart goes out to Haleigh. I fear she never had a chance. :beats:

LOL We don't know he did not take her to a doctor. Again, he has been the responsible custodial parent here. He OFFERED to take his child to the doctor that day and Crystal refused!!

As long as a child is making up the missed work, there is really no problem. She may not have been behind at all. Her work could have been sent home or picked up at school by someone.

Haleigh had every chance to succeed in life, imo. She looked healthy, happy, and well cared for in every single photo or video I have ever seen of her! She had the spark in her eyes which you do not find in abused children, imo. She had a great smile on her face constantly. There was nothing to say she would not grow up and be whatever she chose to become. However, the perp who abducted her took that right and that chance away for now. Hopefully, she will survive this nightmare and still get that chance.

 

[Shelby77]

We do not know for certain all the reason's Crystal missed appointments unless you are first hand related to them. To sit here and say it is because she would not get out of bed for every appointment is in bad taste..because we do not know..jmo of course

But we do know what Crystal said to the judge during the custody hearing when questioned why she did not get her to the Dr. She said that maybe she just didn't feel like getting out of bed.
Now why would a mother say that to a judge, if there weren't not some truth to it?

If you need me to get the link for you, let me know..

 

[Busylady]

Well we know at least one is a clerical error. I am not blaming the school for Haleigh missing school, however I do not know their procedures on keeping the attendance records. I can very easily see Haleigh being marked unexcused and a drs note going to the school days later and the record not updated to reflect that.

I also do not know exactly what they considered excused and unexcused. In our district we are allowed 2 personal days - basically we can call the school and say our child will not be there but it is not due to illness - after two of those called in any remainder are considered unexcused except for a death in the family or a funeral. When we call in it is a recorded attendance line, we have to give specific reasons for absence and any symptoms of illness such as fever, vomitting, diahrrea etc. I do not know how many days we are allowed for illness before it is a problem. If we do not call in the child before 9:00 am it is automatically marked unexcused and a note has to be sent when the child returns in order for the unexcused to be removed from the records. So if I call the child in at 9:05 and don't send a note to the school the record will reflect unexcused even though I called in.

Busy, I am not trying to be snarky.... I am genuinely curious. Are you implying that Haleigh's unexcused absences were due to the school office staff not properly processing the doctor's excuses?

 

[CrankyPants]

Well we know at least one is a clerical error. I am not blaming the school for Haleigh missing school, however I do not know their procedures on keeping the attendance records. I can very easily see Haleigh being marked unexcused and a drs note going to the school days later and the record not updated to reflect that.

I also do not know exactly what they considered excused and unexcused. In our district we are allowed 2 personal days - basically we can call the school and say our child will not be there but it is not due to illness - after two of those called in any remainder are considered unexcused except for a death in the family or a funeral. When we call in it is a recorded attendance line, we have to give specific reasons for absence and any symptoms of illness such as fever, vomitting, diahrrea etc. I do not know how many days we are allowed for illness before it is a problem. If we do not call in the child before 9:00 am it is automatically marked unexcused and a note has to be sent when the child returns in order for the unexcused to be removed from the records. So if I call the child in at 9:05 and don't send a note to the school the record will reflect unexcused even though I called in.

BBM

Not that it's terribly relevant to finding Haleigh, but I did post a link to and excerpt from the Putnum County School System's attendance policies two pages back. Interestingly, it would appear an "appointment" is considered unexcused. Also of note is that teachers/school staff is expected to contact parent/guardian when a child is absent.

If you go to the Putnum schools website, there are masses of pdf files regarding their policies if there is ever anything you need to check on. I know you do LOTS of research and collect/organize so much information that you share with us here. Thanks for that!!

 

[Tom'sGirl]

snipped

HAHAHA....you know you are asking the wrong person here.....all I can tell you is that it was said in one of the early media interviews.

When you locate a link to what you've stated you can repost it. We don't want somthing to be taken as fact if it isn't should someone quote your post.

 

[raeann]

snipped

When you locate a link to what you've stated you can repost it. We don't want somthing to be taken as fact should someone quote your post.

LOL....no, not a problem, I was just trying to show that I think the school had Haleigh's best interest in the forefront whether for attendance or academic skills.
Poor Busy would be shocked at my lack of sleuthing skills and record keeping, but I must admit that I don't record links, I don't keep any notebooks, not even scribbles of notes on pieces of scrap paper! I have never made a map for any case, no timelines, no who's who lists and I don't even know how to sign on to Myspace! I guess there should be a special category name for people like me---not a lurker, but certainly not a certified notebook keeping sleuther either!

 

[snookie]

Serious:

You mentioned what Crystal was doing when RC went to Mexico (for work),...lol.

I would like to hear that exacatly what she was doing. You have that info?

I would like to know why Ron took the children with him to work out of town. Who watched them while he worked? Is there a link available?

Why did he not leave the babies home with their mother while he worked?

Ron went to TEXAS for work - not Mexico. IIRC, we were given information quite awhile ago that Ron never even made it to Mexico - his trip was cut short and he was only gone 18 days, rather than the month he planned to be gone. Didn't you JUST read the transcript last night?

Why would he take his children to work? Why not leave them at home, they were just babies.

Maybe each office has a different policy because I never called them directly or had a decision in when the appointments to specialists were scheduled. The Doctor's office would call me to let me know they made the appointment and when it was scheduled. The day before the appointment, I usually received a phone call from the specialist's office to verify the appointment. At no time did I set it up myself.

In my experience, they will usually ask you which days are most convenient for you. They will work with you. If they suggest an appointment time/date that conflicts with your schedule, all you have to do is speak up.

LOL We don't know he did not take her to a doctor. Again, he has been the responsible custodial parent here. He OFFERED to take his child to the doctor that day and Crystal refused!!

As long as a child is making up the missed work, there is really no problem. She may not have been behind at all. Her work could have been sent home or picked up at school by someone.

Haleigh had every chance to succeed in life, imo. She looked healthy, happy, and well cared for in every single photo or video I have ever seen of her! She had the spark in her eyes which you do not find in abused children, imo. She had a great smile on her face constantly. There was nothing to say she would not grow up and be whatever she chose to become. However, the perp who abducted her took that right and that chance away for now. Hopefully, she will survive this nightmare and still get that chance.

If he went through the trouble of taking her to the doctor, why would he not take the time to obtain a written excuse to turn into the school? It would've prevented her from having so many unexcused absences on her record.

 

[CrankyPants]

If he went through the trouble of taking her to the doctor, why would he not take the time to obtain a written excuse to turn into the school? It would've prevented her from having so many unexcused absences on her record.

Respectfully snipped for length and BBM


According to Putnam County Schools' policies, "appointments" are considered UNEXCUSED absences.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would like to know why Ron took the children with him to work out of town. Who watched them while he worked? Is there a link available?

Why did he not leave the babies home with their mother while he worked?

Why would he take his children to work? Why not leave them at home, they were just babies.

In my experience, they will usually ask you which days are most convenient for you. They will work with you. If they suggest an appointment time/date that conflicts with your schedule, all you have to do is speak up.

If he went through the trouble of taking her to the doctor, why would he not take the time to obtain a written excuse to turn into the school? It would've prevented her from having so many unexcused absences on her record.

It boils down to why did Crystal let them go with him in the first place? She could have said no to the request. She obviously knew who was going to be caring for them while he worked or why did she let them go? Are you saying she knew nothing about how he was going to care for them on that trip and let them go anyway?

It isn't about Ronald and his desire to be near his children because he loves them. It is about Crystal allowing him to take them and what she was doing while he had them. What were her reasons for letting them go only to cry "foul" later on? She had the ability to keep them from going.

 

[harleysnana]

He did not return the children to their mother. I call that stealing, but you may have a real good excuse for Ronald. No, there was not a court order in place because C did not have the money yet. About her working? She had an infant and a toddler. You sue are going on strong about her working! When are you going to start on Misty going to work?

My opinion is RC stole them and filed before she could file and he would have to pay child support, if she got there first.

If there was no court order then the person who had them physically
actually has legal custody!
That is the law so IMO Ron did nothing wrong.
And if Crystal would have taken some time to at least call an attorney or
look on the internet she would have know that and she could have
done the same thing!
IMO Ron did what most if not all concerned parents would do regarding
custody until a court order was put into affect and that was to keep his kids
until custody was established in a court of law!

It also doesn't take rocket scientist to put together custody papers
and both legal aid and court houses offer help so I don't see why
if Crystal wanted custody she couldn't have done it even without
an attorney!

IMO Crystal didn't want custody of her "bratz" and IMO she still does not
so I don't see why we have to keep going over this again and again!

Regarding Misty not having a job.... she isn't legally responsible for
child support for 2 kids like Crystal!

Let’s see what have we figured out again today….
1.Ron has custody and has had for a while due to his legal rights.
2.Crystal by her own admission did not take Haleigh to her doctor appointments
because she did not get out of bed.
3.Haleigh is still missing.

This is getting old!
IMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

If there was no court order then the person who had them physically
actually has legal custody!
That is the law so IMO Ron did nothing wrong.
And if Crystal would have taken some time to at least call an attorney or
look on the internet she would have know that and she could have
done the same thing!
IMO Ron did what most if not all concerned parents would do regarding
custody until a court order was put into affect and that was to keep his kids
until custody was established in a court of law!

It also doesn't take rocket scientist to put together custody papers
and both legal aid and court houses offer help so I don't see why
if Crystal wanted custody she couldn't have done it even without
an attorney!

IMO Crystal didn't want custody of her "bratz" and IMO she still does not
so I don't see why we have to keep going over this again and again!

Regarding Misty not having a job.... she isn't legally responsible for
child support for 2 kids like Crystal!

Let’s see what have we figured out again today….
1.Ron has custody and has had for a while due to his legal rights.
2.Crystal by her own admission did not take Haleigh to her doctor appointments because she did not get out of bed.
3.Haleigh is still missing.

This is getting old!
IMO

Excellent post and you are exactly right!! Thank YOU!! How can this case move forward if all we do is argue over things like that constantly?!