Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #44

[sds71]

Does anyone understand this statement made by MT new atty?

“I have no idea who agreed to have the first two cases in Stamford in the first place since the first case occurred in Hartford and the second case in Avon,” Schoenhorn said.

------------------------------

Crime scene at Welles is New Canaan which would bump case to Stamford - victim allegedly died at Welles too.

80MS was classified as secondary crime scene and would be Hartford but this statement was never clarified by LE.

Not seeing strong argument to move to Hartford other than the driving time for MT and her attorney.

Anyone else understanding this argument by new atty?
MOO

I thought he was implying she was never in New Canaan so
if she did anything criminal it was in Hartford county.

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, we are iirc. According to the SWs that were released, there was an iPhone 7 in a red case found in JFD's suburban at Waveny. It is also noted (someone help, was it AW3) that JFD's cell phone arrived at Waveny then permanently disconnected from the network around 40 minutes later.

Thanks for the reminder. I do recall a phone in a red case found in the suburban at waveny. Iirc there was discussion about who that phone belonged to. Here is the quote from the article @afitzy posted #494 yesterday in this thread
"After Jennifer Dulos disappeared, May 24, 2019, the state police and FBI searched for evidence in New Canaan with cadaver dogs in Waveny Park; with yellow labs to find her cell phone in land bordering Waveny Park; and her home at 69 [now 71] Welles Lane."
I will have to recheck the SW 's( I am working now and watching this with one eye - lol) I am not sure the SW that mentioned the phone in the red case affirmatively stated that the phone was indeed JFD's.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

Yes, so far as we have heard in MSM nobody has yet seen JFd show up in person at Probate Court in New Canaan/Darien and we know she didn't show up in Family Court when that case was dismissed as well following the Court's acceptance of Fd death.

The idea that a body is needed here to prosecute this case simply seems IMO to be antiquated in a day and age when forensic science has advance to the point that it has in 2020. Dr Gill will need to make his case and the associated experts from the Defense will respond accordingly as we have seen play out in cases many times in the past.

We saw Patrick Frazee for months be quoted for saying, "no body, no case" and we then saw precisely where this thinking got Patrick Frazee (life in prison w/o parole plus extra time added on if I recall!).

The idea of questioning anything/everything has value IMO and so many questions have been asked and sometimes they can be answered but sometimes they cannot.

MOO


I feel your frustration with all of this and I'm sure you are most likely referring to MT and/or KM.

Folks here in prior threads have gone through the MT AWs and comments made by her when questioned in LE extensively.

Multiple attempts have been made to put together a timeline for MT based on AW info.

LE has been quite crafty in the info shared about MT and is playing things quite close to the vest for reasons that will eventually be understood by the public.

MT in AW2 and 3 put out information that she 'believes' to be a valid alibi for her location on the murder date.

LE so far as I can tell chose to NOT accept or confirm publicly the MT alibi for the murder date, so I believe we are still waiting for additional information here. Theories abound as to why this might have been done.

KM investigation is ongoing and his AW1 was thin with a range of circumstantial evidence. His information in AW1 has been discussed extensively as well.

If you can craft a plausible timeline for MT based on LE corroborated information then by all means please share as there are no doubt many that would love to see it and ditto for KM!

I'm not sure justice in this case will be to the liking of many that have been following along now for 44 threads and this is unfortunate as many care deeply about the victim. I happen to not believe that a case for Conspiracy to Commit Murder would have been put forward by Atty Colangelo unless he believed he had a compelling case. Perhaps we differ on this and that is ok as I actually think we have more differences of opinion here on WS more often than not.

MOO

For sure I think the case is very compelling, and I'm sure anyone bringing a capital NO BODY murder case, had better be damn sure they know and are convinced of what they are doing. though I am advocating for the presumption of innocence and our 2nd constitutional right in general, I am human and I absolutely weigh in the circumstances and I can believe that it's probable he was involved in her disappearance, but I do not lean towards beyond a reasonable doubt. This reminds me of the Scott Peterson case. I was in school for forensic psychology at the time and I was advocating that they should have never charged him with murder, that the evidence was circumstantial and he shouldn't have been convicted, and I actually at the time believed he did it ( I had the entire class against me, screaming, yelling, that he was a monster etc etc etc, but I just didn't feel they proved that)...well looks like now he might not have done it, and this is exactly the point i'm trying to make. I think it reminds me of it, because the possibility that something else could have happened is there, that for me is reasonable doubt, and I think to charge or convict someone when there is even an inkling of doubt is a dangerous game we play with peoples lives all the time. The system is beautiful when it works, unfortunately it doesn't work that often. I would hate, for him to be aquitted of murder and then the body is found later on, and there is no way to charge him if he did do it again. Where is JD's Justice in that?

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, we are iirc. According to the SWs that were released, there was an iPhone 7 in a red case found in JFD's suburban at Waveny. It is also noted (someone help, was it AW3) that JFD's cell phone arrived at Waveny then permanently disconnected from the network around 40 minutes later.

Thanks for the reminder. I do recall a phone in a red case found in the suburban at waveny. Iirc there was discussion about who that phone belonged to. Here is the quote from the article @afitzy posted #494 yesterday in this thread
"After Jennifer Dulos disappeared, May 24, 2019, the state police and FBI searched for evidence in New Canaan with cadaver dogs in Waveny Park; with yellow labs to find her cell phone in land bordering Waveny Park; and her home at 69 [now 71] Welles Lane."
I will have to recheck the SW 's( I am working now and watching this with one eye - lol) I am not sure the SW that mentioned the phone in the red case affirmatively stated that the phone was indeed JFD's.

 

[sds71]

Hes trilingual Eng Germ Spanish, main interests are sex crimes based on what he posts.

Hes trilingual Eng Germ Spanish, main interests are sex crimes based on what he posts.

He defends pedophiles and drug dealers like Bowman but this guy has interesting views on the age gap and Romeo & Juliet laws.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

MOO you should definitely go back and read the AW 3. Otherwise you will have to continue to ask other people what is in the arrest warrant. It's clear, the evidence is stated.

Just read it.

 

[Ruminations]

I've been reading through thread after thread after thread and honestly some of the opinions and speculations are reaching and irrelevant IMOO. Could someone please just try and give me concrete evidence that JD is dead? not hearsay, not DNA on a bag? I think we forget that our emotions get the better of us and we are forgetting that the client/suspect/ FD is presumed innocent. They haven't found a body yet, and as far as I know, from the evidence they collected there isn't evidence of enough blood being lost belonging to JD to concretely say she should be presumed dead. Do I think she's dead? Yes. Does that matter? No. Do I think FD probably did it? Yes. Does that matter? NO!... It doesn't matter if they were going through a divorce, it doesn't matter if they got into arguments( millions upon millions of people go through the same and worse), and unfortunately any suspicious behavior and behaviors in the past are not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that JD was murdered let alone is deceased. I think all of the brilliant minds here, we would be more helpful to the investigation by using our skills to find out where she is, dead or alive, and then you work outward from there. I think if JD is a victim, than we owe it to her to find her and find out what actually happened. JUST A THOUGHT....also FD isn't on trial for murder, correct? Sorry to come off this way, just it gets a little frustrating to hear over and over again that someone is a lying ******* and murdered his wife when that is a big accusation that there is no concrete proof of... I would keep in mind that THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION HAS A GANG MENTALITY-STAY OBJECTIVE!

AW 3- medical examiner. Jennifer's dead.

 

[Boxer]

Does anyone understand this statement made by MT new atty?

“I have no idea who agreed to have the first two cases in Stamford in the first place since the first case occurred in Hartford and the second case in Avon,” Schoenhorn said.

------------------------------

Crime scene at Welles is New Canaan which would bump case to Stamford - victim allegedly died at Welles too.

80MS was classified as secondary crime scene and would be Hartford but this statement was never clarified by LE.

Not seeing strong argument to move to Hartford other than the driving time for MT and her attorney.

Anyone else understanding this argument by new atty?

MOO

MOO new attorney trying to remove MT from conspiracy to unwitting accomplice. The crime was at 69 Welles if she discussed and made any gesture to further it, was in Stamford jurisdiction.

 

[Alkali13]

Does anyone understand this statement made by MT new atty?

“I have no idea who agreed to have the first two cases in Stamford in the first place since the first case occurred in Hartford and the second case in Avon,” Schoenhorn said.

------------------------------

Crime scene at Welles is New Canaan which would bump case to Stamford - victim allegedly died at Welles too.

80MS was classified as secondary crime scene and would be Hartford but this statement was never clarified by LE.

Not seeing strong argument to move to Hartford other than the driving time for MT and her attorney.

Anyone else understanding this argument by new atty?

MOO

Not an attorney, but I can say that I'm the past, I have been told by LE that reports must be filed where the crime occurs.

The evidence tampering charges stem from an incident in Hartford, so I think he's arguing that that's where the charges should have been filed and therefore prosecuted?

 

[Boxer]

I thought he was implying she was never in New Canaan so
if she did anything criminal it was in Hartford county.

Yes, that she acquiesced to FDs lies for her alibi of him, brought cleaning supplies to him at MS in Hartford.
But if she was part of the discussion that ended up as the murder of JF, that crime occurred in Stamford.

 

[Canchance]

Curious as to why you believe the State Medical Examiner Gill would have issued the opinion he did about blood loss of JFd in AW3, if he didn't believe she were dead?

IF JFd were dismembered and her body parts disbursed via multiple bags then it is likely that there is no body to be found as it would have been burned at MIRA prior to the arrival of LE at the scene. To our knowledge LE has not found a grave or burn pit such as we have seen on other cases. The searches for a body have been extensive in both NC and Farmington. LE appears to have ceased searching for a body? What clue might this give us? IMO it might mean that sufficient evidence exists to suggest that there is no body to find and that the blood evidence (of which we don't have all the information) is such that the only viable conclusion is that JFd died.

We recently saw in the Stephanie Parze case that her body was simply dumped by the side of the road off of a highway and just happened to be found by accident. This was after LE and family in that case searched for over a month and searched 100s of acres in 2 states (NJ and NY). Fd had a time gap clearly in NC and another long time gap in Farmington where many think something could have been done with the body of JFd. The search area involved is sizeable and Gray Hughes IMO did a great Google Earth map to show the possibilities for body disposal in/around NC on the murder date. We don't have all the search warrants yet to see where LE did/didn't search but we do know they searched actively for months.

Blood spatter and splatter were in evidence in the Welles garage and blood was found on the retrieved clothing items of JFd (shirt and bra) as well as 'clean up items' retrieved along Albany Ave. which were being disposed of by Fd and MT.

The Welles garage was cleaned but did show evidence of blood pooling on the floor (seepage into cement has been the theory here) to permit for rough approximation of blood loss in the garage and adjacent area.

Blood loss was also evident on the JFd Suburban car liner that was disposed of along Albany Ave by Fd.

Blood was evident on the EE seat that Fd and MT were cleaning at 80 MS per AW2 and 3. This blood spot was sufficiently large that Fd ordered EE to remove the seat and replace it.

In a prior thread ALL the blood evidence was cataloged into a comprehensive list and said list was extensive.

References to blood weave their way all through AW1-3 as well as in the forensic evidence that we saw for the first time in AW3.

I'm curious where you are seeing a lack of as you say, "concrete proof" in AW1-3?

Very curious as most here simply see blood covering almost everything from the scene at Welles to the items retrieved on Albany and we most likely haven't heard about the items retrieved from MIRA etc.

Share you views please.

MOO

I agree totally with you. There is enough evidence, when all put together (and I’m betting there is even more evidence), it’s beyond a reasonable doubt to me. And to most logical people I suspect.

 

[BellaVita]

Sure no body murder cases can be won, but I don't think there is enough evidence here to support a murder conviction without a body or parts of it. I also don't like the word circumstantial because it defies the legal system, circumstantial evidence within in of itself is reasonable doubt. Furthermore I do not believe that the ME is unjustified, but I also would never put all of the weight of the world on one person, whomever that is. It's a piece in a puzzle, and it lends itself to the idea that she is most likely no longer alive, as does the disappearance in and of itself. I also am not shaming or blaming LE for not trying to find a body or parts of it, from what I have seen and read ( a lot of you tend to think I'm new here and so I don't really know whats going on, but I research heavily outside of this site and on it before I ever open my mouth or on this forum move my fingers). What I am saying is that truth is stranger than fiction, and until we have more concrete evidence, I think to speculate about someones behavior, missing paper towel rolls, among other things which could have completely separate explanations for them other than the death of JD doesn't help to derive the truth, in fact it clouds it. I think that if a body were burned, which some of you have theorized, it would take a substantial amount of fuel and time and most likely would be difficult to hide, plus if you were going to burn the body why in the world would you be not burning the other things you threw in the garbage? I also think dismemberment is plausible but highly unlikely, it would take tools, it would be messy, and then you would have to dispose of the body parts, and to my knowledge none have been located. If anyone knows and can tell me, I would like to know JD's timeline before she disappeared, what were her emails and text conversations about, who was last to see her? who was last to speak to her? what was the mileage on her vehicle? was she having any relationships? I think if there was a pool of blood in the garage it is safe to say something happened there, but by whom? and when? and why? and if so, who had the means and the time to take her whenever she is now? I understand that the DNA of all three were found on items thrown in the garbage, but as a single mother, I can come up with all kinds of reasons why certain things can appear to be something they are not. I think it's best to focus on the victim and her victimology.... if anyone has posted or has it could you repost here a map of the neighborhood... was there any surveillance taken around her home that LE has ? I'm assuming not, but I'm hoping they tried.

Responding to BBM:
1. In 88% of murder cases brought to trial without a body, there is a conviction.
There is only a 70% conviction rate in cases WITH a body.
Because only the very best no-body cases are brought to trial.
2. Circumstantial evidence ONLY is NOT reasonable doubt in and of itself. There is no legal standard saying that it is reasonable doubt. There is tons of physical evidence already and not all of it has been made public. There is also tons of video. There is also the testimony of PG and LA which will be important.
3. This board is not only for concrete facts. It IS also for speculation. I am sure LE brainstorms about possibilities of how crimes have been committed. It's called thinking outside of the box and surely leads to success in apprehending and convicting criminals. I've never heard of 10 rolls of paper towels being used in such a short time. Unless it's to clean a crime scene perhaps.
4. Of course it is not yet known what JD emails and texts said. She saw LA the night of 5/23. There is surveillance showing the comings and goings at WL. She took her kids to school on 5/24. It's known what t-shirt she was wearing. The same as the bloody t-shirt that FD dumped on Albany. Not sure why vehicle mileage matters. It was a 2017 Suburban. It likely had OnStar or the like. They got pings from her phone.
5. What would be any reasonable explanation why DNA from all 3 would be on a single item? Not to mention duct tape and other bags? NP, the parody of a carnival barker, says he knows the explanation. I'm sure it will amusing if we ever hear it.
6. It is not necessary here to only focus on "the victim and her victimology". That seems rather limiting, IMO. It is only to be expected that the defendant would also be scrutinized.
8. Yes there is surveillance. It's in the AW. Also, look into the issues about the Mercier bike. There is mention in the AW of that. Evidence on Albany and video and testimony from PG and MT.
9. If you would like to see a map of the neighborhood, punch the address into google.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-845d-bfd3124a7453/5e14e1a421b22.pdf.pdf

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Sure no body murder cases can be won, but I don't think there is enough evidence here to support a murder conviction without a body or parts of it. I also don't like the word circumstantial because it defies the legal system, circumstantial evidence within in of itself is reasonable doubt. Furthermore I do not believe that the ME is unjustified, but I also would never put all of the weight of the world on one person, whomever that is. It's a piece in a puzzle, and it lends itself to the idea that she is most likely no longer alive, as does the disappearance in and of itself. I also am not shaming or blaming LE for not trying to find a body or parts of it, from what I have seen and read ( a lot of you tend to think I'm new here and so I don't really know whats going on, but I research heavily outside of this site and on it before I ever open my mouth or on this forum move my fingers). What I am saying is that truth is stranger than fiction, and until we have more concrete evidence, I think to speculate about someones behavior, missing paper towel rolls, among other things which could have completely separate explanations for them other than the death of JD doesn't help to derive the truth, in fact it clouds it. I think that if a body were burned, which some of you have theorized, it would take a substantial amount of fuel and time and most likely would be difficult to hide, plus if you were going to burn the body why in the world would you be not burning the other things you threw in the garbage? I also think dismemberment is plausible but highly unlikely, it would take tools, it would be messy, and then you would have to dispose of the body parts, and to my knowledge none have been located. If anyone knows and can tell me, I would like to know JD's timeline before she disappeared, what were her emails and text conversations about, who was last to see her? who was last to speak to her? what was the mileage on her vehicle? was she having any relationships? I think if there was a pool of blood in the garage it is safe to say something happened there, but by whom? and when? and why? and if so, who had the means and the time to take her whenever she is now? I understand that the DNA of all three were found on items thrown in the garbage, but as a single mother, I can come up with all kinds of reasons why certain things can appear to be something they are not. I think it's best to focus on the victim and her victimology.... if anyone has posted or has it could you repost here a map of the neighborhood... was there any surveillance taken around her home that LE has ? I'm assuming not, but I'm hoping they tried.

Or you could scroll and roll. You do not have to read every post if you do not want to. Also you can hit the ignore button on any member whose post you are not interested in reading. As long as a member's post do not violate TOS, they can post their opinions. Not every opinion is going to be based on hard facts. Some are going to be based speculation and sometimes emotion, which is why you see MOO, IMHO,etc. Every poster is here for Justice for Jennifer. MOO.

 

[BellaVita]

The presumption of innocence applies to the prosecution in a court of law.

That is a feature of the criminal justice process not internet forums.

WS is Tricia’s house and is a highly moderated discussion of opinions of MSM articles and released documents held to abiding by the WS TOS.

If after pages and pages of some of the most informed and well researched posts in the history of WS all that’s all come away with is that there are some reaching and irrelevant posts and why don’t we at WS find Jennifer’s body?

Like we are Law Enforcement?

WS is a discussion forum…

On the internet….


IMO

Thank you, Jade. Post of the Day!

 

[Boxer]

Not an attorney, but I can say that I'm the past, I have been told by LE that reports must be filed where the crime occurs.

The evidence tampering charges stem from an incident in Hartford, so I think he's arguing that that's where the charges should have been filed and therefore prosecuted?

Interesting. Tampering evidence for a crime in another county. IDK sounds like the courts will need to decide. The original charge is in Stamford, evidence from that crime was taken elsewhere to be disposed of. Will elsewhere have jurisdiction?

 

[BellaVita]

@Alkali13
Do you know if these were searched? that's major!



@Boxer

And I'm curious what exact crime does it tie him to? is it impossible to have blood and items with your soon to be ex wife's DNA on it without the Commision of a crime? or is that impossible? or are you saying that the items disposed of and bloody paper towels equates to murder? is that the crime you are speaking of? or are you speaking of the crime that he is charged with? because then I would tend to agree... if you are disposing or concealing evidence in a crime investigation or of a crime, i'd agree to that, but I mean thats just MY OPINION.

He IS charged with murder.

 

[BellaVita]

There has been talk of a knife that someone supposedly found in the garbage on Albany Av. at the time of the disappearance. I believe that was found with a bloody pillow and the person who found it said it was A LOT of blood. If LE has these items they have been quiet about it. Also there was interest in an ax that was in FDs garage, but I don't think much has been released about that.

From SW:

 

[Jade]

.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

See that would be interesting, especially if it was a fresh rash at the time. And if FD had been working near Poison Ivy? I wonder if any Forensic Botanist would know if there was a way to trace that back to a specific patch in a specific area, seems unlikely but plants also have genetic markers! either way probably too late now, which just makes it curious. What I wonder, is how could FD be so obvious about disposing of these bags all over, and they have video for that, and yet there is absolutely no sign of a body or tools or weapons being disposed of in the same amount of time, or along the same route? no purchases of items that one would most likely require but could have? something is way off about this and it stinks... so many questions

You are correct, so many questions. These same questions have been asked by many posters. The one thing we all believe is LE has a lot more evidence. They provided the evidence they needed on the AWs to ensure arrests. As in most cases, there is a lot more evidence produced at trial. There is nothing off or that stinks about this. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

For sure I think the case is very compelling, and I'm sure anyone bringing a capital NO BODY murder case, had better be damn sure they know and are convinced of what they are doing. though I am advocating for the presumption of innocence and our 2nd constitutional right in general, I am human and I absolutely weigh in the circumstances and I can believe that it's probable he was involved in her disappearance, but I do not lean towards beyond a reasonable doubt. This reminds me of the Scott Peterson case. I was in school for forensic psychology at the time and I was advocating that they should have never charged him with murder, that the evidence was circumstantial and he shouldn't have been convicted, and I actually at the time believed he did it ( I had the entire class against me, screaming, yelling, that he was a monster etc etc etc, but I just didn't feel they proved that)...well looks like now he might not have done it, and this is exactly the point i'm trying to make. I think it reminds me of it, because the possibility that something else could have happened is there, that for me is reasonable doubt, and I think to charge or convict someone when there is even an inkling of doubt is a dangerous game we play with peoples lives all the time. The system is beautiful when it works, unfortunately it doesn't work that often. I would hate, for him to be aquitted of murder and then the body is found later on, and there is no way to charge him if he did do it again. Where is JD's Justice in that?

There are no longer capital charges in CT. They did away with the DT in 2012.
In fact that is why all bails are monetary because the old capital cases used in the criminal code used to be automatically no bail.