Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #45

[BellaVita]

Thanks for your reply! What I was trying to get across was that whilst the MEs opinion is an expert one, it is still an opinion and the 'evidence' has not been tested.
Lets take it a step further and play 'what if''.

What if, at trial/discovery, it is revealed that LE sought opinions from three experts and two of them disageed with the opinion of the third?
What if, at trial/discovery, it is revealed that the expert opinion prefaced some of his findings with other factors that needed to be present to support those findings?
What if, at trial/discovery, the prosecution decide not to present this 'evidence' for one reason or another?

The point I am trying to get across is, the evidence stated in the arrest warrants has not been tested and therefore, IMO, raises reasonable doubt.

In the UK, arrest warrants, search warrants etc are not released, in fact nothing is released document wise at all. All information is part of trial and the jury makes its decision on the facts presented to them. I must admit, I do find the US system troubling (in the release of information prior to trial), how can this not prejudice a Defendant?

What do you mean the evidence stated in the AW has not been tested? The ME stated he was prepared to say the injuries to JD were non-survivable without medical intervention. I have not heard that JD received treatment anywhere. What is the reasonable doubt? Is it that JD could still be alive? There are a variety of factors that come into play here.

I am not sure why the prosecution would not present these facts. That wouldn't make sense. There would be no case. There will be much more detail given at trial. Given the facts already known, what would possibly lead to the conclusion that that JD is alive? Nothing.

I'm sorry you find the US system troubling. It's not perfect but it's still pretty good. I'm glad documents are released before trial. More open government never hurt anybody. Defendants get fair trials every day. Even those whose cases have been highly publicized. Many high profile suspects get acquitted even. There will be many potential jurors out there who don't know nearly as much as the people here on WS.

 

[Ruminations]

IMO FD was only happy if he was able to manipulate people, especially women. Which means to me he most likely told MT lots of details about the murder of Jennifer. Why would he keep it from her? He needed a cohort. He had learned how to manipulate women. Why did she help him dispose of evidence? Because she was under his control due to her own psychological issues. He had no guilt, IMO, so I don't think he would have spilled his guts just to relieve his guilty conscience. JMO.

I caught a “vibe” myself when I read media reports about Jennifer talking to LE after GD died. She wasn’t quoted as saying “no” to GD having no assets-just “ask my husband.” It could just be that she didn’t know and had enough to do with 4 babies, but I read into it that she was dragged into that with information, in addition to being lightly “framed” as the being the one who saw falls, but didn’t call 911? I wonder if Dulos just boxed her into ignoring his fall story or contradicting him, and chose the former, which fingers her, if you buy that she should have been engaged in elder care, baby care, and nanny care for a gaggle either pre-verbal or non- English speakers, so Dulos could hang in Italy to do whatever he was doing there. I got a vibe she repeated what she was told about GD saying it’s not your fault to nanny, as she didn’t speak the language, right?

I M not going all the way to saying the killing was a hit, but it did seem to me layered with weird power dynamics that mirror your hunch with Troconis. I have the same hunch.

Dulos worked 24/7 on serving his lovebomb/you’re- in-trouble- but-I’ll- handle- it cocktail to his harem IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

I admit to be almost equally baffled and oftentimes highly dismayed by the traditions and conventions of the UK and also EU legal systems but sadly and oftentimes painfully have to manage to find a way to function within the confines of all of them as a global citizen or simply as a company doing business around the world. Such is life.

We function within the parameters of the various legal system around the globe so regardless of what you happen to believe about the US system that is where MT will be tried by the State of CT (and its laws). MT isn't being tried in the UK or Venezuela or Argentina or Florida. CT Law will prevail for the trial of MT and should she be charged with possibly other crimes by the US Government then perhaps she will be subject to US Federal Law as well.

In US criminal trials expert testimony is a fact of life and the jury will be asked to make a determination about what they hear from the experts (and YES, Dr Gill in this case is considered an Expert).

IMO to state that the the evidence in the AW 'hasn't been tested' is factually inaccurate as it has been tested to a standard that was found acceptable by the Judge who signed the AW. What hasn't happened yet, and will happen at trial, is that alternative views of the evidence will be presented.

I don't believe the conclusion drawn that the, 'evidence has not been tested and therefore, IMO, raises reasonable doubt' is at all valid at this point as this will have to be determined by the jury at trial after hearing all the experts including Dr. Gill.

MOO

We disagree.

The judge tested the contents of the arrest warrant to see if it met the criteria for FD to be arrested. He did not test the evidence/statement itself to determine whether FD was guilty of the crime. And this is where the Court of Public Opinion comes in, where they are ready to deem someone a murderer on the basis of untested evidence.

My fear if this continues is that it will erode the rights of US citizens to receive a fair trial, and yes, I do agree to some extent with some of Norm's points on this. Imagine a world where a court of law no longer exists, because the court of public opinion has superceded it. IMO this is a step backwards in society and not a step forwards.

The courts in CT, IMO, appear to be a shambles;

• The bail documents, which blatently were not correct, were accepted;
• The family court - I cannot understand for the life of me, how a judge could allow the parties to file so many motions. The family court is supposed to ensure that the best interest of the children are catered for, and IMO it failed woefully here. The judge should, IMO, have hauled both sides in and told them to come up with a solution pretty quick. IMO, neither side, nor the court, acted in the best interests of the Dulos children; and
• the AW for KM - how on earth did that contain enough information to warrant an arrest? Remember, we say that LE must have more evidence, but where is it? Why is it not contained in the AW?

Legal systems throughout the world are not perfect. For example, I really like the sentencing in the US, where life means life, whereas in the UK sentencing is not consistent and there are very few prisoners who have whole life tariffs. But, I believe that the process before trial is better in the UK than it is the US. Our family courts in the UK are shrouded in secrecy and I think that is wrong. The state has the power to take children away without giving parents a voice. So you see, there is good and bad in all systems.

IMO MOO and all that.

 

[MDATCA]

I really tried to think what type of employment MT might pursue. There are ski areas near Hartford and riding facilities. She worked on promotions for Fd's building company while they were still selling real estate in 2016. However, all of these require her to work out in public. She might be disappointed by her reception and can understand why someone might be hesitant to hire her.

Hopefully her case can go to trial quickly. I do think the state has enough evidence to make their case.

I agree with the no one would hire her.

Although we have forgotten a few of her skills. She has car detailing, bag taping, creative sex location selection and she even tried her hand at writing fiction. So she has a few options available to her. Not to mention making high fashion out of muppets. She is totally employable.

 

[enelram]

Morning thoughts:
I do believe $$$ or rather the slowing of family money, is part of the changes in MT changing attys. Possibly family sees this as a problem that's rapidly draining the mother and father's
life savings. Wanting her to get a job and assist
w/ her defense costs indicates this is behind the
change.
Not sure if she has any real marketable skills beyond minimum wage type jobs. Even Casey
Anthony tried to worm her way into working for her atty. and it was a no go.
Maybe the new atty. would hire her to clean his office or bldg., pick her up, take her home-
naw, don't see that happening.
Or is getting out and getting a job a way for MT
to snag another pseudo rich playboy to maintain her party ways and suckle money from.
I doubt MT has conquered any drug habit she's
probably had for years. And even in some
drug rehab programs they substitute legal drugs (methadone) for illegal ones but the underlying problems are not addressed and there's no real 'quitting'. They just get a maintenance dose of methadone (several times per week) so they can
reasonably function in society. Is she enrolled in such a program now? Is the state of Ct. paying for this?
Could be the reason for her hospital visit prior to her last release. She needed to be tested and put on the methadone program. And in order to stay on the methadone program, regular drug testing is mandatory. This could be a big
problem in getting a real job.

I've wondered if the draw to FD in her past was because he kept her conveniently tethered to her drug use. Many men get and keep women tied to them by providing their regular drug needs. Sort of like a pimp would do to a practically homeless woman, with few marketable skills but w/ a regular drug habit to feed.
MT's oversight has to be PIA for her family.
And if she's complaining about her living conditions and anklet and inability to mingle
in society, she's obviously not adjusting to the program. Recidivism in drug programs is common. Because people default to their old
life skills which weren't strong or healthy in the first place.

 

[rjay]

Matt Caron on Twitter

Did anyone catch this interview with Colangelo?

 

[BUF]

Matt Caron on Twitter

Did anyone catch this interview with Colangelo?

New Chief State’s Attorney talks Dulos case and hot button topics
video at link

 

[BellaVita]

We disagree.

The judge tested the contents of the arrest warrant to see if it met the criteria for FD to be arrested. He did not test the evidence/statement itself to determine whether FD was guilty of the crime. And this is where the Court of Public Opinion comes in, where they are ready to deem someone a murderer on the basis of untested evidence.

My fear if this continues is that it will erode the rights of US citizens to receive a fair trial, and yes, I do agree to some extent with some of Norm's points on this. Imagine a world where a court of law no longer exists, because the court of public opinion has superceded it. IMO this is a step backwards in society and not a step forwards.

The courts in CT, IMO, appear to be a shambles;

• The bail documents, which blatently were not correct, were accepted;
• The family court - I cannot understand for the life of me, how a judge could allow the parties to file so many motions. The family court is supposed to ensure that the best interest of the children are catered for, and IMO it failed woefully here. The judge should, IMO, have hauled both sides in and told them to come up with a solution pretty quick. IMO, neither side, nor the court, acted in the best interests of the Dulos children; and
• the AW for KM - how on earth did that contain enough information to warrant an arrest? Remember, we say that LE must have more evidence, but where is it? Why is it not contained in the AW?

Legal systems throughout the world are not perfect. For example, I really like the sentencing in the US, where life means life, whereas in the UK sentencing is not consistent and there are very few prisoners who have whole life tariffs. But, I believe that the process before trial is better in the UK than it is the US. Our family courts in the UK are shrouded in secrecy and I think that is wrong. The state has the power to take children away without giving parents a voice. So you see, there is good and bad in all systems.

IMO MOO and all that.

Of course the judge who signed the AW did not test the evidence personally. He relied upon the affidavit of experienced LE and ME. There is 88% conviction rate of no-body murder cases. These AW tend to be overwhelmingly supported by guilty verdicts. The AW is not a fantasy based on nothing. It is 35 pages long and very detailed. People in the Court of Public Opinion are not robots. It is more than reasonable to read FD AW and come to the conclusion that JD is dead and FD did that.

I don't see any scenario where a court of law will become obsolete just because there is public opinion. That could only happen if there is complete and total breakdown of society as we know it. I don't think we are anywhere near anarchy.

 

[Ruminations]

The level burden of proof is much less in an civil case.

Beyond a reasonable doubt vs. Preponderance of evidence.

Oj lost wrongful death suit n civil court.

What is the point of a civil suit against Fotis’ estate for wrongful death? Fotis’ assets, if any, will belong to his kids after probate. Who would civilly sue whom? The kids sue themselves? GF sue her grandchildren? And assets on both sides (which I argue are the same side) get depleted.

There is a point in finding the disappearing funds to make sure they are distributed legally. But wrongful death? That’s to nobody’s benefit.

 

[Tink56]

Matt Caron on Twitter

Did anyone catch this interview with Colangelo?

Here's the interview:
New Chief State’s Attorney talks Dulos case and hot button topics
From the interview:
Attorney Colangelo:
“It’s amazing to me the following that case got. The state police. The western district major crime guys are tremendous. There wasn’t a day since Jennifer went missing that I hadn’t talked to them and the New Canaan Police who were involved with them. Every step of the way they kept me informed. There were so many facets to that investigation it was incredible as you saw in the warrant.”

 

[BUF]

English isn’t MT’s first language and she’ll need an interpreter in court????

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[pseudo_hum]

Hopefully, FD's estate will not profit from any book/movie deal. I bet NP would like to play himself. MOO.

 

[BellaVita]

English isn’t MT’s first language and she’ll need an interpreter in court????

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He will try to get her statements to LE thrown out.

 

[Curious in CT]

Interview with MT new atty:

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That TIE! If Pattis is Barnum, this one is Bailey!

Echoing a point others have made here, who the [REDACTED] would possibly hire MT? You made this bed, sweetheart.

 

[Ruminations]

We disagree.

The judge tested the contents of the arrest warrant to see if it met the criteria for FD to be arrested. He did not test the evidence/statement itself to determine whether FD was guilty of the crime. And this is where the Court of Public Opinion comes in, where they are ready to deem someone a murderer on the basis of untested evidence.

My fear if this continues is that it will erode the rights of US citizens to receive a fair trial, and yes, I do agree to some extent with some of Norm's points on this. Imagine a world where a court of law no longer exists, because the court of public opinion has superceded it. IMO this is a step backwards in society and not a step forwards.

The courts in CT, IMO, appear to be a shambles;

• The bail documents, which blatently were not correct, were accepted;
• The family court - I cannot understand for the life of me, how a judge could allow the parties to file so many motions. The family court is supposed to ensure that the best interest of the children are catered for, and IMO it failed woefully here. The judge should, IMO, have hauled both sides in and told them to come up with a solution pretty quick. IMO, neither side, nor the court, acted in the best interests of the Dulos children; and
• the AW for KM - how on earth did that contain enough information to warrant an arrest? Remember, we say that LE must have more evidence, but where is it? Why is it not contained in the AW?

Legal systems throughout the world are not perfect. For example, I really like the sentencing in the US, where life means life, whereas in the UK sentencing is not consistent and there are very few prisoners who have whole life tariffs. But, I believe that the process before trial is better in the UK than it is the US. Our family courts in the UK are shrouded in secrecy and I think that is wrong. The state has the power to take children away without giving parents a voice. So you see, there is good and bad in all systems.

IMO MOO and all that.

??? Dude, Pattis ONLY argues in the court of public opinion. If you call it arguing. He actually attempts to manipulate public opinion then have his “trial” there. He can’t string together a coherent motion to a judge, but he sure can court the media. I’m sorry, but if you are going to say Pattis has a point, at least portray him accurately. He is a PR man who specializes in racists and misogynists, who happens to be a lawyer as well.

 

[dkryder]

What is the point of a civil suit against Fotis’ estate for wrongful death? Fotis’ assets, if any, will belong to his kids after probate. Who would civilly sue whom? The kids sue themselves? GF sue her grandchildren? And assets on both sides (which I argue are the same side) get depleted.

There is a point in finding the disappearing funds to make sure they are distributed legally. But wrongful death? That’s to nobody’s benefit.

Maybe just a civil conviction that FD was responsible for the death of JFd? Regardless of any kind of penalties.

 

[Jmoose]

What is the point of a civil suit against Fotis’ estate for wrongful death? Fotis’ assets, if any, will belong to his kids after probate. Who would civilly sue whom? The kids sue themselves? GF sue her grandchildren? And assets on both sides (which I argue are the same side) get depleted.

There is a point in finding the disappearing funds to make sure they are distributed legally. But wrongful death? That’s to nobody’s benefit.

I wonder if GF has some pretty good intel on money that may have been socked away by FD over time-money that he could not access for his bail without bringing additional charges down? Money that could not be access quickly on the morning of 1/28? Money that he thought he would need when he got acquitted, or jumped bail?

 

[sds71]

STAMFORD —The newly hired attorney for Michelle Troconis is seeking to have judge remove many of the restrictions of her release on bond including required drug testing, electronic monitoring and house arrest, according to court papers filed Wednesday.
[URL='https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/New-attorney-wants-Troconis-house-arrest-lifted-15034632.php']The documents reveal a look at the 45-year-old Troconis' life after being accused of conspiring with Fotis Dulos to kill his estranged wife, Jennifer Dulos, who was last seen May 24 and is presumed dead.
The conditions of her release on a total of $2.1 million bond are now "unconstitutional, excessive and unrelated to any legitimate purpose that permits court-ordered non-financial conditions of release," Attorney Jon Schoenhorn who was hired by Troconis this week said in the documents.[/URL]
Schoenhorn also contends that Troconis was illegally held overnight after being charged with conspiracy to commit murder in the disappearance and death of Jennifer Dulos because she was precluded from posting bond until after her arraignment on Jan. 9.

Troconis is required to submit to periodic drug testing, even though she has no history of drug use, Schoenhorn said.
"There was no reasonable basis to believe, nor was any information provided at any time, to suggest that Michelle Troconis is or was drug-dependent," the attorney said. "The court's imposition of mandatory drug testing as a condition of release is, therefore, unsupported, unreasonably punitive, and serves no other purpose besides humiliation and punishment...”

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/New-attorney-wants-Troconis-house-arrest-lifted-15034632.php

 

[BUF]

He will try to get her statements to LE thrown out.

Yep, that’s exactly what he’s trying for but don’t think it will happen.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I wonder if GF has some pretty good intel on money that may have been socked away by FD over time-money that he could not access for his bail without bringing additional charges down? Money that could not be access quickly on the morning of 1/28? Money that he thought he would need when he got acquitted, or jumped bail?

Hmmm. Good point. Seems likely. Jennifer was a writer, and even in not saying things she said things.

What I IMAGINE Jennifer MAY have written: “My poor husband isn’t used to dealing with my intense Dad. Every business meeting takes so much out of Fotis he has to run back to his best childhood friend in Greece just to recover...”