Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #47

[Ruminations]

Hi, WS friends,

I had a thought. I am a bit creeped out by the airmail serial thriller. The same detail popped out at me as to many others: (cue quiet music subtly building tension) The paramour sleeps alone.

There are two pieces of (mis?) information conveyed. The first is the implication that Fotis and Michelle had a F-like-bunnies relationship which was somewhat forcibly expressed in the alibi scripts and in Michelle saying without saying that sex was occurring in the secondary crime scene. To me, that sounds like information that benefits Fotis and maybe Michelle. It sounds like boasting.

More dramatically, the claim is that Fotis slept elsewhere. IIRC, the detail was not gleaned from any public info. It was offered up deliberately.

Here is my question: irregardless of the truth about where Fotis (And if Fotis) slept, who benefits from publicizing the detail or lie that Fotis did not sleep with Michelle at 4JS?

And is it a whackadoodle motive, or a stay out of jail motive?

Hmmm. Any ideas?

 

[enelram]

Enelram is correct. FD still owned the 2007 suburban. the part that baffles me is why it wasn't listed as one of the seized vehicles. the black porsche gts was not seized we can assume because it's immobile sitting in the 585 deercliff garage.

just guessing- probably was NOT in running condition.

 

[afitzy]

I read the 3rd AWs again early this AM when my son woke me up @ 430 and then fell asleep on me.. I enjoyed the quiet. So I might have misunderstood some details because honestly I missed a lot of stuff when I read it the first time. Anyway.. as I was reading them I really can’t explain with exact precision to all you beautiful minds but IMO and my gut is telling me FD was not alone the whole time in NC. What I’m struggling with is the Tacoma pulling into MS driveway.. and then however long later the suburban and Jeep pull in and MT is following FD. WHEN THE HECK DID HE GO GET THE DANG SUBURBAN!? And when the detectives tried to get a yes or no about if FD was home that morning and she’s giving detailed descriptions of her clothes and offering too much info about her alibi and that’s not even what they asked for. Never mind that the questions they do ask she always gives vague non-answers. The clear poncho with the hood. I think she had her dna on trash bags taped together. TAPED TOGETHER!
There’s a part of me that says she drove JFD suburban to the Tacoma, a part of me that says no she didn’t get her hands “ dirty”until she followed him into MS, and another part of me that says SHES THE ONE RIDING THE BIKE!
She should have come clean or stayed silent instead giving these confusing interviews and my imagination might not be running wild tonight. Ugh!

@MissGlass, I think you put your finger on the issue that has been swirling around this case for awhile and which has been debated somewhat endlessly. Namely how many people were in NC on 5/24/19?

Even many threads ago (long before the bike was confirmed by LE) many here believed that Fd or a single perp could have pulled off the murder either with a bike or via jogging. BUT, it certainly seemed that it would have been easier to have an assistant in NC to help move a body, pick up bags and act as scout etc. We also have the 40 min time gap on Lapham Rd that is unaccounted for in the AWs. We also see all the Fd vehicles (Jeep, Tacoma, Suburban) back in Farmington in the afternoon. I do wonder if its possible that the assistant drove down to NC early and was responsible for removing the body from the scene and this would have left the person driving the Tacoma with the clean up items and the bike in back?

I've read the AWs now a few times and I get a similar feeling when the discussion happens in NC and that feeling is the presence of another individual/s. Perhaps its just the way Det. Kimball wrote the document that gives this feeling and perhaps it wasn't intentional but maybe it was intentional. IDK, but I agree with you that its possible to have this feeling after reading the AWs.

We heard Atty Colangelo say on Chaz and AJ that they couldn't see the face of person on the bike in NC but they did see the bike in the back of the Red Tacoma. We have never heard confirmation of how many people were in the Tacoma or if there was another vehicle in NC on 5/24/19 either. There was the most recent reference to the Fd Suburban being on Thurton in NC but we don't have a date for that sighting unfortunately.

The MT self provided alibis to LE seem quite 'convenient' and I do wonder if its possible that both MT and Fd woke up early and left at 5:30ish am from 80MS but perhaps were driving 2 vehicles?

We don't have all the information about vehicles going into/out of 69/71 Welles either and we don't know if a second vehicle could have been waiting in someplace like Irwin Park (where we know LE searched early on in the case).

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Hi, WS friends,

I had another minor time line thought.

Wasn’t the arrangement a supervised visit in NC on Saturday and in Farmington on Sunday? Wasn’t the visit on Saturday in NC supposed to be at 11:00?

Do I remember that wrong?

Because if that is correct, the police asking to see him at 11:00 would have been when he should have had an outing planned in NC anyway. (But he was nearly 3hours late.) And when he started pelting LA with communications, for Sunday in Farmington, theoretically the NC visit had already been skipped, correct?

Was the Saturday visit and supervisor cancelled? What about Sunday’s? Did Fotis intend to continue cooperating with the supervisor? Did Fotis have a plan for Sunday with the kids? Was Michelle and her daughter part of it? Did the plans include anything as mundane as pizza delivery or outlandish as shopping for gear in their new sizes to prepare for a June ski trip to the other hemisphere?

Are these old questions from times I averted my eyes from the case?

 

[Alkali13]

It WOULD raise suspicion...I guess I wasn’t clear-so unless FD is completely stupid about such things, he wouldn’t have taken a chance on using the plates for a trip like Farmington to New Canaan. He could have used them on a short trip, with no dead body or bloody evidence in the vehicle because he could have been pulled over. This is assuming that the tape didn’t confuse the LPR, and it read the plate as it was in its original state. Ugh-not sure I am saying it right!

I'm not sure LPRs factored into the equation much. They're not incredibly prevalent in CT. CSP has them on some vehicles, and some local departments have a vehicle or two equipped with them, but they're not all over the place like they are in some other states.

I don't think FD would've factored them into when and what he used the altered plates on.

 

[Jmoose]

That 2007 suburban is still listed in SW as belonging to Fore Group along with the other 4
vehicles. The plates were no longer valid but
the vehicle registration was.

But-when the vehicle readers read the plates, they know the plates are not valid. I don’t think he’d take a chance using them on a long trip, if he went to the trouble to “doctor” them.

 

[Tink56]

Hi, WS friends,

I had another minor time line thought.

Wasn’t the arrangement a supervised visit in NC on Saturday and in Farmington on Sunday? Wasn’t the visit on Saturday in NC supposed to be at 11:00?

Do I remember that wrong?

Because if that is correct, the police asking to see him at 11:00 would have been when he should have had an outing planned in NC anyway. (But he was nearly 3hours late.) And when he started pelting LA with communications, for Sunday in Farmington, theoretically the NC visit had already been skipped, correct?

Was the Saturday visit and supervisor cancelled? What about Sunday’s? Did Fotis intend to continue cooperating with the supervisor? Did Fotis have a plan for Sunday with the kids? Was Michelle and her daughter part of it? Did the plans include anything as mundane as pizza delivery or outlandish as shopping for gear in their new sizes to prepare for a June ski trip to the other hemisphere?

Are these old questions from times I averted my eyes from the case?

Hi @Ruminations...Needed to refresh my memory on this also and mentioned it on the previous page. On page 30 of AW3, information from LA states that Fd was expecting her to drive the children to Farmington on the morning of the 25th. (by 11:00) He emphasized that the children needed him.

Fd continued to text and call LA on the 25th and 26th before showing up at GF's apartment in NYC on the 26th...around noon.


Read the Fotis Dulos Arrest Warrant

 

[afitzy]

Enelram is correct. FD still owned the 2007 suburban. the part that baffles me is why it wasn't listed as one of the seized vehicles. the black porsche gts was not seized we can assume because it's immobile sitting in the 585 deercliff garage.

@kimch33kim, I believe the all the vehicles were initially seized (we have to back into this view based on Atty. P. motion to release items back to Fd IMO) by LE and then there was the hearing when Atty. P. was complaining about Fd having to continue to rent vehicles and Judge Blawie returned all the vehicles except the Raptor (which was kept and never returned so far as we know I believe.).

Here is article about the Pattis motion:
Jennifer Dulos case: Fotis renting cars while his remain seized by police

Here is article about what Judge Blawie ruled about what could be returned:

Two iPhones owned by Fotis Dulos were listed among the items that he wanted returned. Blawie agreed Friday that Fotis Dulos could have back a Jeep and a Chevy Suburban, but nothing else.

Jennifer Dulos case: Attorney calls for phone evidence to be thrown out

 

[kimch33kim]

@kimch33kim, I believe the all the vehicles were initially seized (we have to back into this view based on Atty. P. motion to release items back to Fd IMO) by LE and then there was the hearing when Atty. P. was complaining about Fd having to continue to rent vehicles and Judge Blawie returned all the vehicles except the Raptor (which was kept and never returned so far as we know I believe.).

Here is article about the Pattis motion:
Jennifer Dulos case: Fotis renting cars while his remain seized by police

Here is article about what Judge Blawie ruled about what could be returned:

Two iPhones owned by Fotis Dulos were listed among the items that he wanted returned. Blawie agreed Friday that Fotis Dulos could have back a Jeep and a Chevy Suburban, but nothing else.

Jennifer Dulos case: Attorney calls for phone evidence to be thrown out

I thought the same as you but when reading the search warrants the cayenne and 2007 suburban were both not seized nor were they on the motions filed by Pattis for FD to get his stuff back.

 

[afitzy]

I thought the same as you but when reading the search warrants the cayenne and 2007 suburban were both not seized nor were they on the motions filed by Pattis for FD to get his stuff back.

@kimch33kim, OK. Guess we have to go back to the documents as maybe the SA didn't get the info right. Will work on double checking this.

 

[afitzy]

SA Article on Atty Colangelo statements from Chaz and AJ interview:

Prosecutor: No ‘evidence’ of Jennifer Dulos at Hartford trash plant

 

[Alwaystyping]

I am thinking some more about those plates...the police always have the parameters on the LPRs set to alert when a plate is seen on an unregistered vehicle. Let’s suppose that my cop friend is correct about the reader maybe not recognizing the tape on the doctored plates, so that it reads as the original licensed plate-which should have appeared on a registered vehicle, but it did not. Shouldn’t that have gotten somebody’s attention? I mean, Fd had to have encountered at least one license plate reader between Farmington and New Canaan on that Friday. I wonder if that means the plates were used on a vehicle that didn’t travel far, to lessen the odds of detection by a license plate reader. Is it possible that Fd would have used a vehicle bearing these doctored plates to dispose of Jennifer? Could he or would he have really done that and taken such a chance? And if not, what on earth would he have used the plates on?

Do we know for sure that the doctored plates were ever actually used? Wondering if perhaps FD or MT decided not to use them. (Eg FD or MT made them but KM advised against using them knowing they’d trigger plate readers.)

Also re MTs DNA taped together with the bags... makes me think someone loved using tape to MacGyver things. Maybe MT is the plate taper.

 

[Ruminations]

I'm not sure LPRs factored into the equation much. They're not incredibly prevalent in CT. CSP has them on some vehicles, and some local departments have a vehicle or two equipped with them, but they're not all over the place like they are in some other states.

I don't think FD would've factored them into when and what he used the altered plates on.

LPR are just software. There are off the shelf programs designed to scan images and try to read what looks like a license plate. The software got so effective, cameras are now aimed to get a good image of plates.

The technology is like surveillance cameras in their infancy. Someone has to use the data. And the data has to still be around when it’s wanted. By the time the plates were fished out of the drain, who knows which agency kept the constant flip of plate numbers- LE isn’t going to want to give it up until they have to. I think a lot of data, like the data from a drive around patrol car with readers, is just tossed. Cameras reading vehicles entering and exiting parkways may be around longer. LE likes to find a pattern of travel for some cases.

I don’t believe any plate reader gives an alert when something is wrong. Like, “This tag should be on a brown Buick suburban but it’s on a white Honda Sedan!” I believe the software just reads plates and sometimes describes the vehicle it’s on. (By the car’s appearance to the camera, not by the DMV records.) And keeps a list to search by those authorized to search it until the list is discarded. I imagine use of that info will become a point of contention some day. I can set up a camera to read all the plates that go by my house on the public street and keep it, but eventually, that is just going to get too intrusive. Same goes for, say, the federal government keeping records on federal roads.

 

[Ruminations]

Hi @Ruminations...Needed to refresh my memory on this also and mentioned it on the previous page. On page 30 of AW3, information from LA states that Fd was expecting her to drive the children to Farmington on the morning of the 25th. (by 11:00) He emphasized that the children needed him.

Fd continued to text and call LA on the 25th and 26th before showing up at GF's apartment in NYC on the 26th...around noon.


Read the Fotis Dulos Arrest Warrant

Thanks a lot, Tink.

So by Saturday morning, Fotis was saying to LE in NC, “Yeah yeah, 11:00. ish. I got it.”

ETA: By Saturday morning Fotis was making an “excited” call to Meehan. (Thanks, Tink.) what did Meehan mean by “excited”? It was the best day ever? The worst day because Jennifer disappeared and that means, poor Fotis, “I don’t get MY visit?”

Who describes a mystery as “news?” It is almost like he knew something final had happened. They weren’t going to find her in her jogging outfit tangled in bramble and eating berries. She wasn’t to be found to be checked into an ER without ID on her. He already knew there was “news,” not an unknown. I wonder what he told Meehan the “news” was.

And by Saturday morning he was telling LA, “Don’t be late with the kiddos to Farmington. 11:00 sharp!” While he had an appointment with NC LE?

And NC LE was in contact with both Fotis, and LA. And maybe Meehan.

And, the original plan was supposed to be NC, for the Saturday visit, no? Was the supervision cancelled? Or moved? By whom? Did Fotis tell Meehan the “news” that “Jennifer disappeared, and LE doesn’t want me to picnic in her back yard anymore, something about a crime scene, so the visit is at my place. I told the nanny. The kids need me since I am the person that has been in their lives once in the last year.”

 

[Ruminations]

Do we know for sure that the doctored plates were ever actually used? Wondering if perhaps FD or MT decided not to use them. (Eg FD or MT made them but KM advised against using them knowing they’d trigger plate readers.)

Also re MTs DNA taped together with the bags... makes me think someone loved using tape to MacGyver things. Maybe MT is the plate taper.

I do agree that KM would know better than I about plate readers. But I don’t think the altered plates would trigger anything. Unless LE had already been searching for the fake number. Also, LE can search some data for vehicles- black Chevy suburbans, etc. And looked at the plates on them. Most license plate readers also “read” cars and are programmed to pick up make model and color (if there is enough light) as well as tag number.

 

[Tink56]

Thanks a lot, Tink.

So by Saturday morning, Fotis was saying to LE in NC, “Yeah yeah, 11:00. ish. I got it.”

And to LA, “Don’t be late with the kiddos to Farmington. 11:00 sharp!”

And LE was in contact with both?

And, the original plan was supposed to be NC, for the visit, no? Was the supervision cancelled? Or moved? By whom?

Don't think LA replied in the affirmative to Fd's requests.

To my knowledge nothing has been released about the details of the visit including supervisor.

LA was working with LE, or at least, she was conveying information to LE and receiving permission to contact Fd on the evening of the 24th after LE notified him. The message sent to LA was at 5-ish in the morning.

Anything LE was doing to contact FD, etc. is unknown to me. Obviously, they were in contact with him to schedule an appointment for the 25th.

 

[BUF]

Maybe this can shed some light...

Farber’s attorney Anne Dranginis asked Michael Meehan, the children’s court-appointed guardian ad litem, to testify on Tuesday. Meehan, a Bridgeport attorney, testified that he spoke to Fotis Dulos the morning after Jennifer Dulos’ disappearance. In an “excited” state, Fotis Dulos asked whether Meehan had “heard the news,” Meehan said in court.

When asked if he had an alibi for the morning of Jennifer Dulos’ disappearance, Fotis Dulos stated he had been at his Farmington home and at meetings, Meehan testified. Fotis Dulos did not provide more information during the conversation. Meehan recalled telling Fotis Dulos, “I hope you have every moment of your day accountable.”

Shortly after the two spoke, Meehan learned of the investigation.

Fotis Dulos refuses to testify as Jennifer Dulos’ mother fights for custody

 

[Alathea]

IDK about your first paragraph with KM being in charge at 4JX. Wish LE had given some hints about his arrival, if by car, or did he spend the night of the 23rd. There was the discussion about Fd going out to get meat, but stopping at Mt. Springs on the evening of the 23rd. Was he letting KM into MS on the meat errand?

MT may have been dropping off a friend after dinner at 10:10 or do we know when Mama A arrived in town. Could she have stayed at the motel near the hospital? Did NBT stay with her?

Didn't Jannuzzi also stated there had been numerous other calls for JFD or from JFD o her "bedroom" phone? The warrant didn't give a description of those calls, if I recall correctly.

Would MamaA stay at a motel, with such a large house? Could she not stay at the house, and therefore be there to answer a phone the next AM? ("Just please pick up the phone if it rings - you don't need to talk!")

Or perhaps it was KM at the house the next AM.

It's quite possible that MT was in NC, either behind the house or somewhere else nearby in case there were issues with the truck or the murder.

Not one of her alibis have been confirmed by LE. Since she's quite prone to completely making things up that should be easy to prove if true (so - you'd think she'd never say them!), that's how I view all of her alibis. Complete lies.

 

[Alkali13]

LPR are just software. There are off the shelf programs designed to scan images and try to read what looks like a license plate. The software got so effective, cameras are now aimed to get a good image of plates.

The technology is like surveillance cameras in their infancy. Someone has to use the data. And the data has to still be around when it’s wanted. By the time the plates were fished out of the drain, who knows which agency kept the constant flip of plate numbers- LE isn’t going to want to give it up until they have to. I think a lot of data, like the data from a drive around patrol car with readers, is just tossed. Cameras reading vehicles entering and exiting parkways may be around longer. LE likes to find a pattern of travel for some cases.

I don’t believe any plate reader gives an alert when something is wrong. Like, “This tag should be on a brown Buick suburban but it’s on a white Honda Sedan!” I believe the software just reads plates and sometimes describes the vehicle it’s on. (By the car’s appearance to the camera, not by the DMV records.) And keeps a list to search by those authorized to search it until the list is discarded. I imagine use of that info will become a point of contention some day. I can set up a camera to read all the plates that go by my house on the public street and keep it, but eventually, that is just going to get too intrusive. Same goes for, say, the federal government keeping records on federal roads.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this is the type of LPR I'm talking about, and what I would think FD would've needed to worry about: Wallingford police roll out license plate reader

These DO alert the officer to expired registrations, which results in the officer pulling said car over. IME and research, these are not in wide use in CT (one source: husband accidentally drove around for months with an expired registration).

 

[Jmoose]

Do we know for sure that the doctored plates were ever actually used? Wondering if perhaps FD or MT decided not to use them. (Eg FD or MT made them but KM advised against using them knowing they’d trigger plate readers.)


Also re MTs DNA taped together with the bags... makes me think someone loved using tape to MacGyver things. Maybe MT is the plate taper.

We do not know that the plates were ultimately used. However, he did plan to use them, or he wouldn’t have doctored them. And he did hide them in the storm drain, and the only reason I could think he would have done that, is if he did use them. Otherwise, he would have put them back in his garage or wherever he had them.